The JWs and Prayer to the Saints and Mary

[jschwehm]

1. Actively use that rosary to pray to Mary, Jesus mother, while the Bible provides no instruction on praying to anyone besides God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.

First, the meaning of the word, pray, means to ask someone for a favor. When Catholics ask for the Saints in heaven to speak to God for them, that is what we are doing. We realize that the favor or answer to our request comes from God and not from the Saint whom we might be asking to pray for us. I know for a fact that JWs ask others to pray for them. The difference of course is that these JWs are not in heaven with God. Catholics not only ask Catholics who are not yet in heaven to pray for them but also Catholics who are in heaven to pray for them.

Now, the JWs unfortunately do not completely understand the communion of Saints. The great irony is that they do have some understanding of it but have vacillated back and forth over it. For example in their book, “Revelation-Its Grand Climax at Hand!” they say the following about certain JWs they believe to have died and gone to heaven to live and rule with Christ (Note the JWs believe that the 24 elders spoken of in Revelation 4:4 represent certain people among the JWs who are resurrected to heavenly life with Jesus):

“This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.” Revelation-Its Grand Climax at Hand!” page 125

In other words, JWs believe that those of the heavenly calling who die and go to heaven today may be involved in communicating divine truths from God to their organization today. This is not anything new because after Charles Russell died it was common for Bible Students (the earlier name for JWs) to say that Pastor Russell was running the Watchtower organization “from beyond the veil”. Of course Rutherford rejected this notion and since then the publications of the Watchtower Society have gone back and forth over whether this actually happens or not.

The great thing about being Catholic is that we have no doubt that those Saints who go before us and make it to heaven really are praying to God for us. Jesus makes it clear to the Sadducees in Mark 12:27 that “He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living.” This means that faithful men of old such as Abraham, Issac, and Jacob are alive in the presence of God and can intercede for us. If those individuals who looked to the promise of the coming Christ can pray for us, then how much more so can Jesus’ own mother intercede for us? She of all people is the closest person to Him. Afterall, Jesus received His very flesh and blood from her.

In addition the book of Revelation makes it clear that those Saints in heaven who have been martyred in some way for the Gospel are praying for us here on earth:

“And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. And they cried out with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?”-Revelation 6: 9, 10 (New World Translation).

 

[paarsurrey]

We realize that the favor or answer to our request comes from God .

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly, has He denied one that one should pray to the intermediaries?
I would like to pray directly to GodAllahYHWH; he hears.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[Catholic_Hammer]

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly?

Why not indeed?

Good question.

Catholics petition saints because it is cultural. Christianity is the reconciliation of “paganism” with the One True Faith. These so-called “pagans” had numerous “household gods” that they would pray to, asking for various favors. After the revelation of the One True Faith, these “household gods” were replaced with replaced with the saints - the saints being the Christians the Church determined to be in Heaven, a power given to the Church by God Himself. As described by St Paul, this “communion of saints” was available to all Christians for support. Petitions to these saints, asking favors from the Triune God, are in no way blasphemous, as all saints point to Jesus, who Himself is the incarnation of the Divine.

A Catholic doesn’t necessarily HAVE TO petition the saints, but they DO have to believe in the communion of saints, and once you believe in the communion of saints, you can’t help but ask for their prayers in Heaven.

 

[TraditionalCath]

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly, has He denied one that one should pray to the intermediaries?
I would like to pray directly to GodAllahYHWH; he hears.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

There is no rule specifying that we cannot pray directly to God Himself. Jesus said, Iam the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me. Since Jesus is God, we are going directly to God in prayer. So no, there is no rule specifying that we cannot go to God directly in prayer. Intercessors are what they are, intercessors. They interecede on your behalf. There is also no rule specifying that we cannot ask a particular saint or even the Belssed Mother herself for an intercession on our behalf.

 

[yessisan]

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly

We do, and we also ask Mary, Mother of God, and we ask the Saints to intercede for us. It’s just the same as asking your mom or someone else to pray for you or to pray with you.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly, has He denied one that one should pray to the intermediaries?
I would like to pray directly to GodAllahYHWH; he hears.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

it is not so much a question of thinking it is better to pray to others rather than to God directly, but sometimes we might feel the need for a little extra support and help from friends. It is not that we think they are better than God to pray to–but that sometimes WE feel inadequate. It is the same as asking friends to pray FOR you in a time of special distress…who better to pray for you than someone who is already in Heaven and made it thru the trials of this life successfully? What better friend to have than someone who lived a holy life and is already where we strive to be–in Heaven and with God?
Kinda’ like if you went on a job interview and a friend of yours who already works there can put in a good word for you with the boss…

Ravyn

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
My question is; Did JesusYeshuaIssa ever prayed to anyone else, using an intercessor?
Jesus only prayed to one true GodAllahYHWH, without any intercessor, so should we all. We have to follow JesusYeshuaIssa, rather any deviants, I think.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[QuietTimes]

Hi
My question is; Did JesusYeshuaIssa ever prayed to anyone else, using an intercessor?
Jesus only prayed to one true GodAllahYHWH, without any intercessor, so should we all. We have to follow JesusYeshuaIssa, rather any deviants, I think.Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

I would suggest to do a study on the Communion of Saints. More so at least try to understand the transfiguration of Jesus Christ. There is nothing deviant about it.

 

[runandsew]

Hi
Then why not pray to GodAllahYHWH directly, has He denied one that one should pray to the intermediaries?
I would like to pray directly to GodAllahYHWH; he hears.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I am just curious.

Do you pray for others if they ask you to?

Or when asked do you tell them “NO, don’t ask me to do this for you, pray to GodAllahYHWH directly, what am I, your intermediary?”

 

[runandsew]

Hi
My question is; Did JesusYeshuaIssa ever prayed to anyone else, using an intercessor?
Jesus only prayed to one true GodAllahYHWH, without any intercessor, so should we all. We have to follow JesusYeshuaIssa, rather any deviants, I think.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

Well, during the transfiguration, Jesus speaks with Moses and Elijah. They spoke about Jesus’ departure, I guess Jesus should just have spoken to His Father about this, I mean were Moses and Elijah intercessors or what?

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Hi
My question is; Did JesusYeshuaIssa ever prayed to anyone else, using an intercessor?
Jesus only prayed to one true GodAllahYHWH, without any intercessor, so should we all. We have to follow JesusYeshuaIssa, rather any deviants, I think.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

we do not pray to God using an intercessor—you are confusing the word intercessor with mediator. We pray TO the intercessor to ask them to also pray for us TO God. We pray TO God too of course. You are not understanding a very simple concept. We do not think that praying to a Saint is the same as praying to God. We pray to Saints because how else would you talk to someone who is resurrected to the spirit world? You can’t call them on the phone! When we talk to Saints we are not under the impression that we are talking to them in the place of God. We merely ask that they include our intentions in their own prayers to God.

Like if you asked someone who worked at an Embassy to talk to the Ambassador on your behalf because they are there closer to them and maybe have their ear in a better way then you do, not being right there. It does not mean you don’t also talk to the Ambassador! Or that you are thinking that talking to the Embassy worker is the same as talking to the Ambassador!

It is a simple concept–asking a friend in a better position to put in a good word for you.

Ravyn