The keys given to Peter

[edwinG]

Hi,
These keys along with the authority to bind and loose which was given to all of the apostles was not the passing on of infallibility. Peter proved himself infallible after Christ died by playing the hypocrite and leading others away from the truth, damaging their faith. So that is not the answer.
I believe this is from the Holy Spirit.
The keys and authority were given so that Peter and the apostles would establish a societal law here on earth. The old testament law of an eye for an eye was given as a law of mercy to limit the degree of revenge taken against a person. It, in it’s mercy, was a law of limitations. Imagine the setting. No laws and someone kills a son. The family seek revenge and kill the 4 sons belonging to the family and the husband and rape the lady. God stepped in with a law of mercy, limiting the revenge to an equivalent.
Christ came and fulfilled the law. He filled the law up. So the law which went from no law to a law of limits now was a law of absolute limits. Now you could not take the life, in fact you could not even be angry and still more, you had to forgive. Man that is really filled up. And that is what applies to us who follow Jesus. We are under this law, but only Noah, Job and Daniel were righteous under the old law of mercy or limitations. Who could now be righteous under the fulfilled law? Well the law has passed from the physical to the spiritual so now in Christ we have the Holy Spirit and His strength if we follow His leading.WIthout Him your dead in the water. You had better start listening to the Holy Spirit.
But what about the other people who live but have yet to to find Christ and the Holy Spirit. Are they to suffer under the law of limitations.
No and this is why Christ gave the keys to Peter who with the desciples blessed the whole world with a system of laws for people in society, who have not yet come to Christ. And see how widespread this societal law is. How blessed we are in Christ, in God’s wisdom and in Peter and the apostles.
So societies law given by Peter and the apostles is so much more merciful than the law of limitations but less than the fulfilled law that applies to those in Christ, but still a stepping stone and a barrier of protection for those without armour.
How almighty is our God in His love for us.
Praise Him and worship Him
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Trelow]

Hmmm, who to believe you around not so very long, or the Church around since Christ, hmmm who to believe…

 

[Tom]

I love the last supper discourses. These teachings Jesus is imparting on His Church and its leadership.

Jn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.**15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ** 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. **26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ** 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

The Advocate, the Holy Spirit is with His Catholic Church, the Holy Spirit leads the Church to all truth. Notice that the Spirit is promised to His Church, and specifically that the gift of the Holy Spirit specifically promised to the Church is to be lead to all truth. We know there are many gifts of the Spirit, but this gift this charism is promised to the Church. Edwin, I have absolutely no doubt that you are in the Spirit, and the Spirit is in you, however Jesus never promises you or I this gift, to be lead to all truth, we each have gifts of the Spirit, let’s not assume we have all of the gifts. Are you and I promised to be lead to all truth? Only if we follow the Church, which has specifically, been given this gift. This gift is the gift of infallibility.

Jn 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. **13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. ** 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[Tom]

Jesus establishes a Church, and He sends His Church out into the world. In Luke chapter 10 we see Jesus expanding His Church, giving a mission to the 72.

Lk 10: 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

 

[Tom]

1 Tm 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

How can the pillar and ground of truth teach in error?
Just a quick thought on infallibility of man or Church:

Acts 15: 22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things

The Church leaders (as a group) retain infallibility since they are promised this by Jesus in the Holy Spirit leading these leaders. Unfortunately those outside of the Catholic Church ( those referred to in Acts 15:24, which today would include the protestors) are not guaranteed this truth, as is evidenced by the thousands of differing “truths” professed. There is only one Church which was promised to be led into truth, it is one, ist is Holy, it is Catholic, it is Apostolic, it is the Catholic Church.

1Jn 2: 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[jpowers]

“Peter proved himself infallible after Christ died by playing the hypocrite and leading others away from the truth, damaging their faith. So that is not the answer.”

Do you know the meaning of “infallible” ??

Janice

 

[Tom]

“Peter proved himself infallible after Christ died by playing the hypocrite and leading others away from the truth, damaging their faith. So that is not the answer.”

Do you know the meaning of “infallible” ??

Janice

Janice, I’m sure that was a typo, he meant fallible, but in fact, it does not prove fallibility. Infallibility does not mean impeccability, which Edwin is confusing. Peter could and indeed did make errors, he is only human. There are requirements for a papal teaching to be considered infallible. Infallibility only pertains to official Church teaching which are

1. A matter of Christian morals, Scripture or Tradition
2. Declared by the Pope as infallible.
3. Articulated from the “chair of Peter” (that is by the pope acting in his official capacity as pope, not as a private individual.
   Do these errors Edwin mentions even constitute a teaching which could be considered infallible?
4. Well, it is a matter of Scripture and Christian morals, so yes to this one
5. I have never seen Peter refer to this teaching as being infallible, so no, it fails on this. Even if he “taught” this he could be in error, you’re trying to make infallibility something it’s not.
6. Again, he didn’t proclaim this teaching as the leader of the Church, just as an individual, therefore it wouldn’t even be considered infallible.

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

I love the last supper discourses. These teachings Jesus is imparting on His Church and its leadership.

The Advocate, the Holy Spirit is with His Catholic Church, the Holy Spirit leads the Church to all truth. Notice that the Spirit is promised to His Church, and specifically that the gift of the Holy Spirit specifically promised to the Church is to be lead to all truth. We know there are many gifts of the Spirit, but this gift this charism is promised to the Church. Edwin, I have absolutely no doubt that you are in the Spirit, and the Spirit is in you, however Jesus never promises you or I this gift, to be lead to all truth, we each have gifts of the Spirit, let’s not assume we have all of the gifts. Are you and I promised to be lead to all truth? Only if we follow the Church, which has specifically, been given this gift. This gift is the gift of infallibility.

.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your excellent post.
Can we discuss the issue regarding the Holy Spirit being given to the Catholic Church.
My position is that the Holy Spirit is given to all people, poured out on all the world, but by belief in Christ and through baptism, Matthew 28:19 "… baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; He , the Holy Spirit leads us continously to Christ who is our teacher. I see the Holy Spirit available to every Christian as a comforter. To the rest of the world He is with them but not in them.
Christians are blessed both here on earth ( life abundantly, praying not to be seduced by His abundance) and of course honor and glory in His Almighty kingdom.
When you talk about the spirit being promised to the Catholic Church, I fail to understand. Do you mean to all members of the catholic church and not to anyone else, or do you mean to the magisterium only or to the pope only.
Ps I just discovered colours so I am being a bit fancy. I have been unavailable for a few days. ( nothing to do with colours)
I Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part
13:10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away .
I am sorry if I come across as knowing all things. I hardly know any thing. But it is wrong for me to ignore His teachings and store them up for myself. If I do He will find someone else. If the words strike a place with you, they do, if not, they don’t.
Additionally all words should be tested against the word, and what better place for me to test the word than here on this forum. I hope you dont mind.
I disagree with your statement that only if we follow the (Catholic) Church will we be led to ( all) truth. We both seem to agree that Christ only reveals individually that which is necessary to the work He has given that individual. No one has a handle on all of the truth.
I dont find infallibility available for anyone. In fact, as I have witnessed, some times the Holy Spirit lifts His protection so we can be led astray as a teaching. See how Christ used Peter this way. Peter surely was a great apostle who, because of his courage and great faith was much used by Christ for our benefit. His faith enabled him to bounce back into Christ, and grow even stronger in faith. Peter was used this way before the crucifiixion and after.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Catholic_Dude]

edwinG:

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your excellent post.
Can we discuss the issue regarding the Holy Spirit being given to the Catholic Church.
My position is that the Holy Spirit is given to all people, poured out on all the world, but by belief in Christ and through baptism, Matthew 28:19 "… baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit; He , the Holy Spirit leads us continously to Christ who is our teacher. I see the Holy Spirit available to every Christian as a comforter. To the rest of the world He is with them but not in them.
…

Your right to an extent, but your quote of Matt28 misses some very important details:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

That is authority granted to the apostles right there. It was up to the apostles to pass this on. It was the Apostles and those whom the Apostles chose next who were doing the Baptizing.

Also Matt18:
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be** bound in** heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
Those are powerful words to tell to humans, yet Christ granted them that authority.

 

[edwinG]

Trelow:

Hmmm, who to believe you around not so very long, or the Church around since Christ, hmmm who to believe…

Hi Trelow,
Thank you for joining in. Who to believe? Well, the word teaches us to check everything against the word. If it is not against the word, maybe you could ask Christ or see what your heart says about it. Does this find a place in your heart. If it doesnt then it does not apply to you.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

How can the pillar and ground of truth teach in error?
Just a quick thought on infallibility of man or Church:

Hi Tom,
I agree, the church is infallible, but not any denominational church. You have to be honest, all denominational churches have failed. Look at the murders carried out in the name of the denominational churches, the bloodshed, the purges, none of this is love. Look at the greed in our denominations as opposed to what God has done by stripping His own temple and it stands stripped and crumpled still today as it is physical and unimportant. As Christ said, in 3 days I will build a new one. And He has.
Only Christ was infallible. To be infallible really is to be without sin. Now it seems convenient to jump in and out of infallibility and say it only applies to this area and this area and not to this or this. Surely in your own mind, if you think God wanted a dynasty to be infallible it would be spelt out most clearly. And why is this necessary, Christ lives, it is just a matter of faith as you can not see Him. He is our leader, He is the Church, He is the pillar and ground of truth.
I Timothy3:15 But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, Which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. The church of the living God is not a denominational church, it is Christ who lives. This is the age of the Spirit not of the flesh, which finished with John the Baptist, for it was John who ushered in the kingdom of heaven. We need to be thinking spiritually not physically. Bricks and mortar and traditions of men can be stumbling blocks.

The Church leaders (as a group) retain infallibility since they are promised this by Jesus in the Holy Spirit leading these leaders. Unfortunately those outside of the Catholic Church ( those referred to in Acts 15:24, which today would include the protestors) are not guaranteed this truth, as is evidenced by the thousands of differing “truths” professed. There is only one Church which was promised to be led into truth, it is one, ist is Holy, it is Catholic, it is Apostolic, it is the Catholic Church.

Acts15:4 " And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up , saying, " It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Acts 15:6 Now the apostles and the elders came together to consider this matter.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been so much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: Men and bretheren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
then Barnabas and Paul spoke
then James spoke
and it was to James that all listened after hearing from Paul and Barnabas.
Now as Peter was pope, and in charge it is note worthy that

1. there was a group within this circle who believed in the law of Moses
2. 15:6 only the apostles and elders
   15:7 such dispute within the apostles and elders
   15:7 James was the speaker of authority of this group.
   I see no infallibility here.
   Walk in love
   edwinG

 

[edwinG]

“Peter proved himself infallible after Christ died by playing the hypocrite and leading others away from the truth, damaging their faith. So that is not the answer.”

Do you know the meaning of “infallible” ??

Janice

HI Janice,
Well, it was a typo so I ask your indulgance. Thank you for joining. IT is good to know people are reading and letting it sink in as it has with you.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Lorarose]

The keys were not given to all the apostles. The keys were given only to Peter.
It is bias against the Church that clouds the mind regarding this.

Not only is it clear from scripture - it is clear when we look at history and read the writings from the first generations of christians.
I trust scripture, and I trust the early fathers.

I do not trust modern revisionism based in anticatholicism.

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

Can we discuss the issue regarding the Holy Spirit being given to the Catholic Church. My position is that the Holy Spirit is given to all people, poured out on all the world

Amen brother, however my point was not that the Holy Spirit was only given to the Church, but that the specific gift of being led to all truth, that specific gift, was only given or guaranteed to His Church. We all do indeed have the Holy Spirit in us, but we are not guaranteed this gift to be led to all truth, we may believe we have this gift, but again this is what leads to so very many differing opinions of what the truth is. 1 Cor 12 has an excellent discourse of this, here are some highlights, but please read the entire chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

In addition to 1 Cor 12
Romans 12:6 - Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Hebrews 2:4 - God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

I’m sorry if you got the wrong impression, I tried to explain in my post, but as usual, put it forth poorly. My gift of the Spirit is not clarity.

Tom:

Edwin, I have absolutely no doubt that you are in the Spirit, and the Spirit is in you, however Jesus never promises you or I this gift, to be lead to all truth, we each have gifts of the Spirit.

 

[Tom]

Too many points to cover in one post, sorry.

edwinG:

You have to be honest, all denominational churches have failed. Look at the murders carried out in the name of the denominational churches, the bloodshed, the purges, none of this is love. Look at the greed in our denominations as opposed to what God has done by stripping His own temple and it stands stripped and crumpled still today as it is physical and unimportant. As Christ said, in 3 days I will build a new one. And He has.
Only Christ was infallible. To be infallible really is to be without sin.

you’re again confusing impeccability with infallibility. The Church (Catholic Church) has never failed, however the leaders of His Church have often failed. They are humans, I think the fact that every one of His Apostles deserted Him, one even betrayed Him, and the leader, this Peter, even denied Him, yet to whom does He return? It is to these sinners, all of whom deserted Him. It is to these sinners He established His Church. It is to these sinners that He reveals all of the Scriptures. Yes, the people who run the Church have sinned, often quite horribly. This does not prove His Holy Catholic Church is incorrect, actually it proves it is led by the Holy Spirit, for if it were not it would have dissolved long ago.

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

Now it seems convenient to jump in and out of infallibility and say it only applies to this area and this area and not to this or this. Surely in your own mind, if you think God wanted a dynasty to be infallible it would be spelt out most clearly.

it only applies to the area that Jesus established, that it would be led to all truth, this is where infallibility comes from, Jesus not humans.

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

And why is this necessary, Christ lives, it is just a matter of faith as you can not see Him. He is our leader, He is the Church, He is the pillar and ground of truth.

He left us His Church. Yes He is in His Catholic Church

 

[edwinG]

Catholic Dude:

Your right to an extent, but your quote of Matt28 misses some very important details:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Hi Catholic Dude,
" And lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." So if Jesus says He is with us, He is. So now that we understand that He is with us what do you want to ask Him, what do you want to talk about, do you want to follow Him, because the Holy Spirit will take you to Him every time you ask. And Christ has authority over all things and He loves you. It is His love and His wisdom which stops Him giving us some of the things we ask for. It is our obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit which pleases Him and brings us to joy and peace and an abundance in Him.

That is authority granted to the apostles

right there. It was up to the apostles to pass this on. It was the Apostles and those whom the Apostles chose next who were doing the Baptizing.
Your quote from Matthew says desciples.
Your arguement says apostle.
I am a desciple, are you?
Acts 6:1 Now in those days when the number of disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists , because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution.
Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Also Matt18:

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be** bound in** heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
Those are powerful words to tell to humans, yet Christ granted them that authority.
Great quote Catholic Dude.
So If two of you agree, or where two or three are gathered in my name.
The two are the inner man and the flesh. You or me or whoever is in Christ. Where these are in agreement on Earth, then the Father will do it in heaven. This does not automatically manifest here on earth. Earth is a shadow of heaven If there is a third party it is the Holy Spirit and then Christ will be in the midst of that gathering of flesh, inner man and Holy Spirit.Therefore, this binding and loosening is done by you for you. You can bind yourself to some truth or loose yourself from some truth. This does not give you dominion over men. This reference is on a man to himself basis. This is particularly so in laws. Paul speaks about weak consciences, and the eating of meat. For years you may think it is a sin to eat meat on Friday. THerefore you have bound yourself. Then as your faith grows with sincerity you believe it is all right to eat anything you like on any day, then if this is a belief in your heart, you can loose yourself from this previous binding. Just remember when you loose your self from some bindings, this does not mean you can flaunt you new faith in front of those with a tender conscience, because you must also be mindful. In Christ you are free of all of those rules, you only have to obey the leading of the Holy Spirit, if your conscience will allow it. Otherwise you have bound yourself. But Christ in His compassion has given you the authority to bind or loose your own conscience. How great is His love and mercy. How great is our freedom in Him
All praise and worship to our Holy Jesus.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

I Timothy3:15 But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, Which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. The church of the living God is not a denominational church, it is Christ who lives.

Here we disagree. Jesus established a Church on earth, it is this Church that is being referred to here. Jesus established this Church, and if you study Acts, you’ll see stayed a prolonged period after His resurrection to establish this Church. The Church has a hierarchy and was established by Jesus Himself.

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

This is the age of the Spirit not of the flesh, which finished with John the Baptist, for it was John who ushered in the kingdom of heaven. We need to be thinking spiritually not physically. Bricks and mortar and traditions of men can be stumbling blocks.

If they reject you, they reject Me, if they reject Me they reject the One who sent Me. Don’t reject His Church, it is a Church He established on earth with men in charge.