The Kids Are Old Rite

[DarkLight]

Possibly, but not a major disadvantage either way. If outsiders are coming to Mass because they want to become Catholic, they’ll get themselves familiarised with Catholic worship in the fullness of time (and, ideally, with the support of their pastor/fellow laity). They aren’t going to quit just because everything isn’t instantly as clear as A-B-C. Otherwise I’d venture to say it was a conversion impulse built on sand anyway.

It doesn’t always happen in that order though. Some people start going to Mass, and then after experiencing it they decide to become Catholic. I occasionally attended Mass well before I had any intention of converting.

 

[Samuel_Mary]

It doesn’t always happen in that order though. Some people start going to Mass, and then after experiencing it they decide to become Catholic. I occasionally attended Mass well before I had any intention of converting.

I think it’s difficult to say whether more people are intrigued by what appears at first mysterious, transcendental, esoteric - or sold on something they can instantly understand. It’s a very individual thing.

 

[Vico]

catholicherald.co.uk/issues/september-1st-2017/the-kids-are-old-rite/

The Pastors of the Church approve the prescriptions for worship according to which the faithful have the right to worship God.

Latin Canon Law (CIC):
Canon 214 Christ’s faithful have the right to worship God according to the provisions of their own rite approved by the lawful Pastors of the Church; they also have the right to follow their own form of spiritual life, provided it is in accord with Church teaching.

Eastern Canon Law (CCEO):
Canon 17 The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

 

[otjm]

I think it’s difficult to say whether more people are intrigued by what appears at first mysterious, transcendental, esoteric - or sold on something they can instantly understand. It’s a very individual thing.

having worked in RCIA for around 25 years, I have yet to find a single individual who “instantly understood”. And most found the OF mysterious, as they had almot no background in what is often called “high liturgy”, which encompasses part of the Anglican/Episcopalian and Lutheran communities.

 

[babochka]

Anyone who believes that watching a priest pray the Mass with gloves on and in a language that they don’t speak is somehow more appealing to young people likely has never actually worked with young people.
Young people are very interested in the faith, and guess what? We DO teach them that the Mass is a Sacrifice. The Sacrifice of the Mass. Yes, that’s what it is called in textbooks, LT, and classrooms everywhere. You have to GET the kids to class and Mass in the first place though.
The reason why youth is not on their knees is not that education is bad. It’s because their parents won’t bring them, not because there’s not enough incense.
Talk to people about attending Mass and obeying the Commandments. Have THAT talk.

It’s lovely for those who want it desperately, we get it. Really. Go for it. Encourage those parishes. Support them with your $$$ so they can continue.

But it’s not a CURE for what is going on in the church.
Saying it 1000 times is not going to make it happen.

(Clare, I’m not disagreeing with you here! I’m just using your post as a springboard for my own comments. )

I think we need to give young people credit for being their own individuals. Like adults, they are going to have their own liturgical preferences.

I have two teenagers (and 4 younger children). They’ve been exposed to a wide variety of Catholic worship: We are Byzantine, through homeschooling friends we occasionally attend a TLM, they’ve experienced very solemn Novus Ordo Masses (the Chrism Mass at the Cathedral, for example), Masses dominated by Praise and Worship music and just standard, run-of-the-mill parish Masses. They like aspects of each. This weekend, we were away from home and attended a local parish. The Mass was fine. The homily was fantastic and engaged even my 8-year-old. The music was modern - a couple of hymns, but mostly praise and worship, with the lyrics projected onto a screen above the altar. Three volunteer singers were accompanied by a drummer, tambourine, and guitar. My 13-year-old daughter asked to move to the back of the church because the drums hurt her ears (she has sensory processing issues). This same kid has mentioned more than once that she wishes Byzantine worship were a little more exciting and that we sang songs in our Byzantine parish like they do in other parishes. My 15-year-old son adamantly disagrees. He loves chant and strongly believes that worship of God should be solemn. He does prefer Melkite chant to Ruthenian, though. My 11-year-old whined, but he whines about everything. My 8-year-old said that the screen with the words was distracting. I think my daughter with the sensory issues would actually prefer a low Mass, though I’ve never asked her. Incense bothers her, too.

My point is that we cannot assume that one-size-fits-all for our young people. Where ever they are, whatever form the Mass takes in their home parish, will be the backdrop for their Catechesis and formation as Christians. They seek truth and truth can be found in every approved form that the Mass takes. They need something solid and real. Kids usually don’t get to choose where they go. We have to give them the best no matter where their parents bring them to church.

 

[otjm]

(Clare, I’m not disagreeing with you here! I’m just using your post as a springboard for my own comments. )

I think we need to give young people credit for being their own individuals. Like adults, they are going to have their own liturgical preferences.

I have two teenagers (and 4 younger children). They’ve been exposed to a wide variety of Catholic worship: We are Byzantine, through homeschooling friends we occasionally attend a TLM, they’ve experienced very solemn Novus Ordo Masses (the Chrism Mass at the Cathedral, for example), Masses dominated by Praise and Worship music and just standard, run-of-the-mill parish Masses. They like aspects of each. This weekend, we were away from home and attended a local parish. The Mass was fine. The homily was fantastic and engaged even my 8-year-old. The music was modern - a couple of hymns, but mostly praise and worship, with the lyrics projected onto a screen above the altar. Three volunteer singers were accompanied by a drummer, tambourine, and guitar. My 13-year-old daughter asked to move to the back of the church because the drums hurt her ears (she has sensory processing issues). This same kid has mentioned more than once that she wishes Byzantine worship were a little more exciting and that we sang songs in our Byzantine parish like they do in other parishes. My 15-year-old son adamantly disagrees. He loves chant and strongly believes that worship of God should be solemn. He does prefer Melkite chant to Ruthenian, though. My 11-year-old whined, but he whines about everything. My 8-year-old said that the screen with the words was distracting. I think my daughter with the sensory issues would actually prefer a low Mass, though I’ve never asked her. Incense bothers her, too.

My point is that we cannot assume that one-size-fits-all for our young people. Where ever they are, whatever form the Mass takes in their home parish, will be the backdrop for their Catechesis and formation as Christians. They seek truth and truth can be found in every approved form that the Mass takes. They need something solid and real. Kids usually don’t get to choose where they go. We have to give them the best no matter where their parents bring them to church.

You and your children are graced to have as many alternatives available as you do.

 

[babochka]

You and your children are graced to have as many alternatives available as you do.

Yes, we are. And I have my own preferences and very definite opinions about how things “ought” to be, but amazingly, my children are their own little people and seem to be developing their own points of view.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

You may be on to something. If I travel out of town and attend a different parish, I’ve no idea what I’m in store for. Could be altar bells and incense, could be secular music and social hour all throughout the Mass. If I attend the EF, however, there’s a better chance that I can reasonably expect reverence and solemnity. There’s a better chance that the Mass I attend out of town will be extremely similar to the Mass I’d attend at home.

I say all of this as someone who almost exclusively attends the OF. I just become weary of guessing at what I’ll find when I walk into a new parish. Thankfully, the one thing I can be certain of finding is Christ Himself.

Totally agree. This is the greatest flaw of the “OF” Mass. There is no stability or permanence or predictibility in how it is celebrated. Sure, it is possible to celebrate a reverent OF Mass with beautiful sacred music and to incorporate touches of tradition (bells, incense, etc.). But it is equally possible to celebrate a happy-clappy Mass with guitars and awful music and little to no sense of the sacred (and sadly, this latter type of Mass is more common than the former).

Even if a parish is fortunate enough to get a priest who celebrates a reverent, more traditional OF Mass, all that can be swept away instantly if the parish gets a new priest who wants to celebrate Mass '70s-style. This lack of stability and consistency in the OF is likely one of the main things attracting people to the old Latin Mass.

 

[stpurl]

I agree with you and my parish could be the poster child for ‘stuck in the 70s’ but I think there is a danger of making the preference for the EF into a ‘reaction against’ a less-than-stellar OF (and while I of all people know that liturgical abuses exist, they don’t exist because the OF is the OF; they exist because people are human, and sometimes humans make bad choices. If the same people were attending the EF they would probably make bad choices too, they would just be different kinds of bad choices. Quite frankly, I’d be more than happy to attend an OF with ‘say the black and do the red’, and that doesn’t mean it couldn’t have all the joy and spontaneity and freshness that so many people put forth as one of the major benefits of the OF. If I happened to enjoy, as apparently many do, the warmth, friendliness, and familiarity of a 70’s style Mass, and some Catholic came on and was calling “my” Mass a jumped up gimcrack fake, implying that my funny, loving priest was a glory hog, that the music I liked was crummy, etc., I’d be prejudiced against their 'airy fairy, mumbo-jumbo, elitist, boring, STUPID Mass from the start.

Whereas if I were talking in a friendly way with somebody, and had nice things to say about her Mass (how good it is for people to have a sense of joy in troubled times, how much a blessing it is for people who may have felt ‘inhibited or bored’ in their lives to feel free and involved in their Mass today, etc) and then shared that I had always been on the shy side and that it made me a little braver and more comfortable and happier around others to kind of ‘let the Spirit move me’ quietly at the EF, don’t you think that both of us would be much more likely to ‘hear’ each other without going off and getting offensive, or defensive, about ‘our choice’?

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

You may be on to something. If I travel out of town and attend a
different parish, I’ve no idea what I’m in store for. Could be altar
bells and incense, could be secular music and social hour all throughout
the Mass. If I attend the EF, however, there’s a better chance that I
can reasonably expect reverence and solemnity. There’s a better chance
that the Mass I attend out of town will be extremely similar to the Mass
I’d attend at home.

I say all of this as someone who almost exclusively attends the OF. I
just become weary of guessing at what I’ll find when I walk into a new
parish. Thankfully, the one thing I can be certain of finding is Christ
Himself.

So true. I usually post on “Musica Sacra Forum” before I travel to see if there is an above-average liturgy available at my destination.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Not too simple at all.
I teach Confirmation prep to 9th graders. Most of their parents have no real knowledge of the faith, and put no real importance to it. In my experience, the Sacraments have become nothing more than “rites of passage”. Something to do just because we always have.
Very sad really, and the EF is not going to fix that apathy.

 

[Fontainecourt]

But to someone on this thread insists on labelling me a liberal, LOL!

Just think Living In Benedict’s Excellent Romanity And Latinity

 

[Fontainecourt]

I teach Confirmation prep to 9th graders. Most of their parents have no real knowledge of the faith, and put no real importance to it. In my experience, the Sacraments have become nothing more than “rites of passage”. Something to do just because we always have.

Very sad really, and the EF is not going to fix that apathy

The sadness is real, of course. What, though, if some of your teaching starts filtering back to the parents… Boy or girl says something at the weirdest moment, which they wouldn’t have said w.o. the teaching?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I have seen it happen, and that is the hope I hold on to as I begin the new year!

 

[Saxum]

The EF Mass literally saved my soul because it’s the reason I began attending Church again. I discovered the EF in my 20s and was immediately drawn to it. I’d never have left the Church in my teens if this Mass and it’s spirituality was available. It really draws me closer to God. I understand why the Kids are Old Rite.

 

[poche]

It has been my observation that terms like ‘traditional’ and ‘conservative’ are relative.