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whiteknite
Guest
You forgot how to google??
Go look…
Because this is going way off the subject with everything thats said has to be proven for you to believe…
So go on Google it:thumbsup:
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Go look…
Because this is going way off the subject with everything thats said has to be proven for you to believe…
So go on Google it:thumbsup:
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whiteknite
Guest
Did you read the Wiki link??
All or just what you wanted to read??
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Lilyflower
Guest
By the same token the appendant orders of Freemasonry–the Scottish Rite, York Rite, and Shrine, for instance–are not Freemasonry proper. These are all auxiliaries of the Masonic Fraternity, not the Fraternity itself.
I did not know that. So does that mean the Scottish Rite, York Rite and Shrine [not heard of that one], are not freemasonry?
But surely the concern of the Sacred Congregation towards freemasonry must include these orders or fraturnities or not?
My understanding of freemasonry is that the symbolic degrees of Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason, [as conferred in the United States], are degrees of the York Rite. York Masonry is as far as I can ascertain [from friends who are masons] the oldest and best known of all Masonic Rites. I think it takes its name from York, England, where the earliest known record of Masonry exists, which unlike all other masonry which is less than 500-years old, York Rite dates and can trace its origins from about A.D. 950.
Anyone know what the Orthodox view is in respect of freemasonry?
Blessings.
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ralphinal
Guest
I just re-read it. I did not see anything about pagan attendants or the Bible. Please point it out.
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whiteknite
Guest
The wilki you Quoted has links to Constantine at which explaines alot but read it carefully…
Just a little of whats wrote:-
“Latin Rite Catholics of the Middle Ages considered it inappropriate that Constantine was baptized only on his death-bed and by a bishop of questionable orthodoxy, viewing it as a snub to the authority of the Papacy. Hence, by the early fourth century, a legend had emerged that Pope Sylvester I (314–35) had cured the pagan Emperor from leprosy. According to this legend, Constantine was soon baptized, and began the construction of a church in the Lateran Palace.[177] In the eighth century, most likely during the pontificate of Stephen II (752–7), a document called the “Donation of Constantine” first appeared, in which the freshly converted Constantine hands the temporal rule over “the city of Rome and all the provinces, districts, and cities of Italy and the Western regions” to Stephen and his successors.[178] In the High Middle Ages, this document was used and accepted as the basis for the Pope’s temporal power, though it was denounced as a forgery by Emperor Otto III[179] and lamented as the root of papal worldliness by the poet Dante Alighieri. The 15th century philologist Lorenzo Valla proved the document was indeed a forgery.”
Link:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_emperor_Constantine_I
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ralphinal
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Ok. But what does this have to do with the Bible?
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Lilyflower
Guest
The many replies here suggests that freemsonry is at risk of ‘leading Catholics astray to false religion’. The evidence that I have seen however is quite the opposite.
I have never heard of a Catholic who stops practicing because he is a free and accepted mason. But I HAVE heard of lapsed Catholics ‘coming home’ because they have enrolled as masons.
In other words: men who did not walk with the Lord, take up their faith again, go to confession and re-dedicate their lives to Christ and His Church only because they felt encouraged by masonry to do so!
Suddenly I have become invisible.
None of the hardliners will see this reply because it is not what they want to read. No, they do not want to read that. They want to read of ‘blood oaths and satanic ritual!’
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whiteknite
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I think im wasting my time with you because your not reading anything im showing you…
Already you have made up your mind. [eyes wide shut]
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kesa82
Guest
This post is uncharitable, petty, and mean-spirited. But - HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.He’s right, the Templars are based on an organization that goes back to antiquity…In the Stone Age they were known as the Water Buffalo Lodge, it was well documented by Hanna-Barbera in the Flintstones.
It’s all evident on the show, Fred was a part of the Lodge and worked in a stone quarry. I think both Hanna and Barbera, as part of the Priory of Scion, discovered this and left clues about it clandestinely placed in their animation the same way Leonardo da Vinci left clues to the scared feminine and the sang real…how fiendishly clever of them.
So funny !
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kesa82
Guest
Nice to learn that the Templars were cleared. 
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whiteknite
Guest
But nothing was proven in the first placeNice to learn that the Templars were cleared.
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ralphinal
Guest
Let’s try this. Please show me, in black and white, where anything having to do with the Bible came from the council of Nicea. Not about Constintine’s power. Not Doctrine. The Bible. That was your assertion, right out of a bad pulp fiction novel.I think im wasting my time with you because your not reading anything im showing you…
Already you have made up your mind. [eyes wide shut]
My eyes are not wide shut, and I have not already made up my mind, but history tells us something and one lone voice on a discussion forum says another. What makes you more authoritative.
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ralphinal
Guest
I do not speak of blood oaths and satanic ritual, and I see you.
The point is not if there Masons have done good. The point is not if some have found a deeped relationship with God through them.
The point is simple: the Catholic Church (and some other Churches) does not allow her members to be Masons. There are a lot of reasons for this. They are being discussed on another thread. As we are forbidden, under penalty of Mortal sin, from joining, we can say that Catholics cannot be Freemasons.
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flameburns623
Guest
In order to belong to an appendant order of Freemasonry one must belong first to a Masonic Lodge. That is, to be a York Rite or Scottish Rite Mason, one must first be a Master Mason, or 3rd-Degree Mason. To be a Shriner one in addition had to be either a Scottish Rite Mason or a York Rite Mason. (The Shriners may have loosened their membership requirements since I last knew of them). Since one has to be a Mason to be a member of the appendant bodies, the proscription applies equally to them.
The degrees you described are the degrees of Freemasonry proper–the first three degrees of the ‘Blue Lodge’ or what is normally understood as Freemasonry. The Knights Templar confers 15 additional ‘honorary’ degrees on members. The Scottish rite confers 29 additional ‘honorary’ degrees above the level of Master Mason. In addition, the 33rd Degree may be conferred on any man, Freemason or not, for outstanding service to the cause of Masonry or of service to humankind. I don’t know how many degrees the Shriners might confer.
Any degrees received in an appendant body are considered ‘honorary’, so that a 32nd-Degree Scottish Rite Mason or a 12th-degree Knight Templar in the York Rite is really only a 3rd Degree Master Mason. Even in the appendant orders, the ‘extra’ degrees are not given any serious weight: one earns all of the degrees of an appendant order in a single day, over the course of six to eight hours of observing allegorical rituals enacted on one’s behalf.
Some of those allegories are quite vivid, but remember that the interpretations lent to those allegories are purely up to the individual, except to whatever measure the varying rituals interpret themselves. For example, in one degree in both the York and the Scottish Rite, one drinks from a cup fashioned as a skull; in some cases a real skull is used, donated by some former Mason who had no further use for it himself. The Ritual tells you to drink from this cup remembering that you will one day come to the end of your life, and that this life should be a preparation for the next life.
This may be a morbid thought, but no more morbid than St. Francis Liguori’s book “Preparation For Death”, wherein the reader is likewise treated to grim discussions of what will happen to one’s body after death and then encouraged likewise to reflect on the need to treat this life as preparatory for the next. And, by the way, one can find Protestant evangelists who have dwelt on the same subject to the same end. I have personally sat under the teaching of one or two such evangelists. There is nothing deliberately macabre about the allegory and certainly nothing Satanic–in the York Rite, the ritual for this degree is explicitly Christian, since the York Rite itself considers itself a Christian fraternity.
For the view of Orthodoxy see the following:
orthodoxfaith.com/ecumenism_masonry_councils.html
Hope this helps!
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whiteknite
Guest
Want me to hold your hand while you read it???
This shows that you simply scan over the text and not read…
Try again BUT read…
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ralphinal
Guest
Here is your claim, taken from your post
You seem to be well read and well able to defend your positions. You have not done anything to defend this one. Perhaps you mis-spoke?
This is how you proove the claim.
This says nothing at all about anything related to what you wrote. I am not a code breaker. I cannot see Bible in there in any way shape or form. Just highlight the word. That is all.
You seem to be well read and well able to defend your positions. You have not done anything to defend this one. Perhaps you mis-spoke?
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whiteknite
Guest
Perhaps i did but i follow alot of this stuff for years and if im mis-interpreted stuff then ok i hold my hands up and start again!!
But you will see something in the future of what i say was true and will stop and say “whiteknite was right after all”
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ralphinal
Guest
It is ok. I encourage free-thinking, but you must have the facts or evidence to support your thought process. Now, if you want to discuss the council of Nicea with regards to the authority of Constantine in relation to the church, that is another subject…Perhaps i did but i follow alot of this stuff for years and if im mis-interpreted stuff then ok i hold my hands up and start again!!
But you will see something in the future of what i say was true and will stop and say “whiteknite was right after all”
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Lilyflower
Guest
the Catholic Church (and some other Churches) does not allow her members to be Masons. There are a lot of reasons for this. QUOTE]
Is akin to saying 'it was not safe for Catholics to attend Mass in Penal England during the English Inquisiton because if you were caught you were most likely to be hanged.
So on that basis, it is not safe for the average American guy to attend Mass in case the Kings men come to get you!
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