The knowledge of Christ

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RobedWithLight:
A heretic cannot be a saint. This Theodotus I’m refering to came from Byzantium and came to Rome around 190 A.D.

St. Theodotus, on the other hand, lived during the time of Diocletian (Roman Emperor 284-305) and died a martyr during the last persecution of 303 A.D.

Gerry :).
Wow, I’m impressed. You really know your Church history.
 
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ContraFool:
So there is little chance of being able to bring the whole Parish back on the same track as the Church?
Dear Lord, your whole parish is having a problem with this issue?

Antonio :confused:
 
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JimG:
Jesus had both a human and a divine nature. In His divine nature He knew all things. In His human nature, he “progressed steadily in wisdom.” (Luke 2:52)
The Epistle to the Hebrews says that Jesus is like us in all things save sin . . . Would that not also apply to his ‘growing in wisdom and stature?’
 
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mercygate:
The Epistle to the Hebrews says that Jesus is like us in all things save sin . . . Would that not also apply to his ‘growing in wisdom and stature?’
Does Him being like us in all things exclude Him from being like God in all things? No, Christ is fully capable of being both. That is the miracle of the hypostatic (sp?) union.
 
Antonio B:
Code:
Dear Lord, your whole parish is having a problem with this issue?

Antonio :confused:
Sadly…this is a very slight exasuration. There are many many more people who believe this heresy than don’t. And the few who see it for what it is don’t really care to do anything about it.
 
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ContraFool:
Does Him being like us in all things exclude Him from being like God in all things? No, Christ is fully capable of being both. That is the miracle of the hypostatic (sp?) union.
Jesus was both God and Man. We can’t minimize either nature. In his human nature he did learn and grow in knowledge.

It is apparent, though from the incident at the Temple, that he diid have an awareness of his identity and of His Father.
 
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JimG:
Jesus was both God and Man. We can’t minimize either nature. In his human nature he did learn and grow in knowledge.

It is apparent, though from the incident at the Temple, that he diid have an awareness of his identity and of His Father.
I think I take the part about him learning and growing to mean that He went through that same human proccess, but didn’t really need to. I think He might have “learned” some human things in the normal human way, but that He had the full knowledge of those things before He even began.
 
Here’s the Augustine link. If you care to check it out in a Father’s set or whatever, it is from Augustine’s “On the Trinity” Chapter 12 at ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF1-03/npnf1-03-07.htm#P168_49840

Here is the most relevant paragraph:

Again, "Of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven; neither the Son, but the Father."129 For He is ignorant of this, as making others ignorant; that is, in that He did not so know as at that time to show His disciples:130 as it was said to Abraham, "Now I know that thou fearest God,"131 that is, now I have caused thee to know it; because he himself, being tried in that temptation, became known to himself. For He was certainly going to tell this same thing to His disciples at the fitting time; speaking of which yet future as if past, He says, "Henceforth I call you not servants, but friends; for the servant knoweth not what his Lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you;"132 which He had not yet done, but spoke as though He had already done it, because He certainly would do it. For He says to the disciples themselves, "I have yet many things to say unto you; but ye cannot bear them now."133 Among which is to be understood also, “Of the day and hour.” For the apostle also says, "I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified;"134 because he was speaking to those who were not able to receive higher things concerning the Godhead of Christ. To whom also a little while after he says, "I could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal."135 He was “ignorant,” therefore, among them of that which they were not able to know from him. And that only he said that he knew, which it was fitting that they shouldknow from him. In short, he knew among the perfect what he knew not among babes; for he there says: "We speak wisdom among them that are perfect."136 For a man is said not to know what he hides, after that kind of speech, after which a ditch is called blind which is hidden. For the Scriptures do not use any other kind of speech than may be found in use among men, because they speak to men.

In the next paragraph, he goes on to relate different Scripture passages that tell of Christ’s being both the form of God, and the form of a servant. It’s really good too.
 
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ContraFool:
I think I take the part about him learning and growing to mean that He went through that same human proccess, but didn’t really need to. I think He might have “learned” some human things in the normal human way, but that He had the full knowledge of those things before He even began.
In His divine nature, he knew those things. In his human nature, he learned in the same manner that all humans do. In his human nature, he needed to.
 
There are two separate threads running on this issue. Allow me to borrow from the other thread (Post # 19 by amarischuk. That post provides a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia about the Council of Basle, which condemns the proposition that “the soul of Christ sees God as clearly and intimately as God perceives Himself.”

The entry goes on to note that “It is quite clear that, however perfect the human soul of Christ is, it always remains finite and limited; hence its knowledge cannot be unlimited and infinite.”

This makes sense because Jesus soul is, after all, a human soul, united to a human body, although possessed by a Divine Person.
 
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ContraFool:
Sadly…this is a very slight exasuration. There are many many more people who believe this heresy than don’t. And the few who see it for what it is don’t really care to do anything about it.
All I know is that as a Christian, we should have a proper understanding of who Jesus of Nazareth is. If we don’t, the rest of our faith tends to be distorted, to say the least!

Antonio :confused:
 
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