The Koran on the virgin Mary

[koranist]

"And mention in the Book, Maryam when she withdrew from her family to a place facing east. She placed a screen from them; then We sent to her our angel and he appeared before her in the form of a man in full human form. She said:

‘I seek refuge with The Most Beneficent [God] from you, if you do fear Him.’ (The angel) said:

‘I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.’ She said:

‘How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?’ He (the angel) said:

‘So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)’, and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).’ " (Quran 19:16-21)

"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said:

‘Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!’ Then a call unto her from bellow, said:

'Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; And shake the trunk of the date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon you. So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say:

‘Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent so I shall not speak to any human being this day.’ " (Quran 19:22-26)

"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said:

‘O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil! O sister of Haron (i.e. O you who we consider the like of Haron, who was a pious man at the time of Mary)! Your father was not a bad man (adulterous), nor was your mother an unchaste woman.’ Then she pointed to him (to the baby). They said:

‘How can we talk to one who is a child, in the cradle?’ " (Quran 19:27-29)

He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”! Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be”, and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!

 

[koranist]

Chapter 3 (Imran)

1. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
2. “O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down.”
3. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
4. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
5. “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”
6. She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, ‘Be,’ and it is!
7. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
8. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
9. "’(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
10. “‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.’”
11. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
12. “Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness.”
13. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
14. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
15. “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
16. “As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.”
17. “This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom.”
18. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was.
19. The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.

islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/3.htm

3.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

3.47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Let the Gospel judge for a change

 

[jakasaki]

OK - please tell us why are you posting this stuff, which we already know and have seen.

You are obviously here for a reason.

Is it to learn about us and Christianity and Catholicism **or is it for you to preach and post koranic verses which have no meaning to us **because they are in conflict with our beliefs and Biblical Books.

Please state your purpose and intention… because if your intention is to preach islam, it’s against forum rules.

Thanks!

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

OK - please tell us why are you posting this stuff, which we already know and have seen.

You are obviously here for a reason.

Is it to learn about us and Christianity and Catholicism **or is it for you to preach and post koranic verses which have no meaning to us **because they are in conflict ****with our beliefs and Biblical Books.

Please state your purpose and intention… because if your intention is to preach islam, it’s against forum rules.

Thanks!

I’m going to have to agree. You seem to have a habit of posting various quotes from the Qur’an, which most of us have either read on our own or in other threads on this forum, without providing relevant commentary to your point. Is there something you would like to say about what the Qur’an says about Mary? We are quite aware that it has a lot to say, but what is your point?

 

[koranist]

I’m going to have to agree. You seem to have a habit of posting various quotes from the Qur’an, which most of us have either read on our own or in other threads on this forum, without providing relevant commentary to your point. Is there something you would like to say about what the Qur’an says about Mary? We are quite aware that it has a lot to say, but what is your point?

Wow, I hit a nerve here. You act just like Sunnis but claim to be different. The point is the Koran confirms the Gospel and only the Gospel should speak for Jesus like only the Koran speaks for Muhammad. At least Sunnis have another revelation. They can keep that with him. What revelation you have?

Let the Gospel judge.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I think it’s great that muslims have an admiration towards Mary. There is a mosque in near Melbourne (Australia) called the Virgin Mary Mosque. I wish Protestants could show a similar respect for Mary.

 

[koranist]

I think it’s great that muslims have an admiration towards Mary. There is a mosque in near Melbourne (Australia) called the Virgin Mary Mosque. I wish Protestants could show a similar respect for Mary.

What do you mean by protestants and Mary.

Plus I am not Muslim, I am a Koranist. Koran respects Mary, Muslims say she has been abrogated.

 

[Louie1983]

Wow, I hit a nerve here. You act just like Sunnis but claim to be different. The point is the Koran confirms the Gospel and only the Gospel should speak for Jesus like only the Koran speaks for Muhammad. At least Sunnis have another revelation. They can keep that with him. What revelation you have?

Let the Gospel judge.

No the Koran does not confirm the gospel at all!

***‘So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)’, and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).’ " (Quran 19:16-21)

"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said:

‘Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!’ Then a call unto her from bellow, said:

'Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; And shake the trunk of the date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon you. So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say:

‘Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent so I shall not speak to any human being this day.’ " (Quran 19:22-26) ***

This is noweher to be found in the gospel at all! The only truth here is that she gavve birth. But it says she gave under a date-palm? the gospel explains that she gave birth in bethlehem in a staple.

The rest of what you have quoted is has absolutely no link to the gospel at all! You have to understand that God did not give us the bible as a revelation, it was Jesus himself who was the message! The son of the living God. You have completely misunderstood Christianity.

 

[koranist]

No the Koran does not confirm the gospel at all!

***‘So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me: And to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)’, and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).’ " (Quran 19:16-21)

"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said:

‘Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!’ Then a call unto her from bellow, said:

'Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; And shake the trunk of the date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe dates upon you. So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say:

‘Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent so I shall not speak to any human being this day.’ " (Quran 19:22-26) ***

This is noweher to be found in the gospel at all! The only truth here is that she gavve birth. But it says she gave under a date-palm? the gospel explains that she gave birth in bethlehem in a staple.

The rest of what you have quoted is has absolutely no link to the gospel at all! You have to understand that God did not give us the bible as a revelation, it was Jesus himself who was the message! The son of the living God. You have completely misunderstood Christianity.

There are other Christian scriptures that refer to these events but they have not become canonized by the Chirch for various reasons. i saw a documentary called banned from the Bible by the History Channel and they have refernece to that event and others like Jesus turning clay to bird and speaking in the cradle and Mary under a palm tree.

I agree that Jesus was the word of God and he did not receive revelation the way other prophets did. It was embeded in him from birth and did not come via an external source like Moses or Muhammad. The Koran actually says Muhammad knew very little if not nothing about the things in the Koran. The Koran also however says God talked to Moses.

2.253. Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan

5.110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic

So clearly Jesus had a unique relationship with the holy spirit and it seems he was strengthened with it since birth and was given knowledge and wisdom from birth. So in that way Jesus is unique. He also is the only one whose mother is mentioned by name repeatedly and of course she herself had a unique encounter with God and the holy spirit.

The Koran says to Muhammad:

And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted 29.48

93.7.** And He found thee wandering, and He gave thee guidance**

“And if thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the book from before thee…” (Surah 10, Yunus, verse 94).

This is very different than Jesus. But its similar to Moses in that he had an encounter of some sort with Gos. Jesus was born into it, at least thats what it seems from the koran and the Gospel.

 

[Louie1983]

There are other Christian scriptures that refer to these events but they have not become canonized by the Chirch for various reasons. i saw a documentary called banned from the Bible by the History Channel and they have refernece to that event and others like Jesus turning clay to bird and speaking in the cradle and Mary under a palm tree.

I agree that Jesus was the word of God and he did not receive revelation the way other prophets did. It was embeded in him from birth and did not come via an external source like Moses or Muhammad. The Koran actually says Muhammad knew very little if not nothing about the things in the Koran. The Koran also however says God talked to Moses.

2.253. Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan

5.110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic

So clearly Jesus had a unique relationship with the holy spirit and it seems he was strengthened with it since birth and was given knowledge and wisdom from birth. So in that way Jesus is unique. He also is the only one whose mother is mentioned by name repeatedly and of course she herself had a unique encounter with God and the holy spirit.

The Koran says to Muhammad:

And you did not recite before it any book, nor did you transcribe one with your right hand, for then could those who say untrue things have doubted 29.48

93.7.** And He found thee wandering, and He gave thee guidance**

“And if thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the book from before thee…” (Surah 10, Yunus, verse 94).

This is very different than Jesus. But its similar to Moses in that he had an encounter of some sort with Gos. Jesus was born into it, at least thats what it seems from the koran and the Gospel.

If your going to believe every documentary that you watch then you will end up very confused. These documentaries that you speak of have their own agenda, this is their own opinion. You shouldn;t base your argument on such things, this is a weak argument you have presented.

I watched a documentary that tried to explain that Muslims/koranists are told to persecute and attack non-muslims/koranists. Do you think i believe this? no! because this particular show obviously had an agenda to portray Islam in violent and negative manner.

If your trying to discredit something, then first understand what the faith teaches and how it came about. Go directly to the source, documentaries that try to stir up controversy won’t work.

Jesus was the holy spirit also! 3 in 1. These other scriptures you mention were not approved by the church for very good reason1 because they were incorrect and full of error! No other reason. There were many heresies and incorrext texts that were condemned by the early church. This is nothing new.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Jesus was born in Bethlehem which fulfilled a prophecy in the Jewish scriptures. When you quote things from the Muslim scriptures that deny Jewish and Christian scriptures, you just give us reasons to think the Koran tells lies.

 

[imasinner]

Koranist:
There are other Christian scriptures that refer to these events but they have not become canonized by the Chirch for various reasons. i saw a documentary called banned from the Bible by the History Channel and they have refernece to that event and others like Jesus turning clay to bird and speaking in the cradle and Mary under a palm tree

The Gospel of Barnabas is not inspired nor do Christians consider it part of their Scriptures. Therefore you claiming the Gospel confirms the Quran is totally deceptive as you knew for a fact that the Quranic version is vastly different from the canonised books of the Bible. Next…

 

[koranist]

Koranist:
There are other Christian scriptures that refer to these events but they have not become canonized by the Chirch for various reasons. i saw a documentary called banned from the Bible by the History Channel and they have refernece to that event and others like Jesus turning clay to bird and speaking in the cradle and Mary under a palm tree

The Gospel of Barnabas is not inspired nor do Christians consider it part of their Scriptures. Therefore you claiming the Gospel confirms the Quran is totally deceptive as you knew for a fact that the Quranic version is vastly different from the canonised books of the Bible. Next…

Mary’s care

Several elements of Mary’s story in the Qur’an, her miraculous food and finding a husband, are absent in the Bible but present in the Gospel of James.

God cares for Mary

Quran

“ Every time that he entered (Her) chamber to see her, He found her supplied with sustenance. He said: “O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?” She said: “From Allah: for Allah Provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure.”[Qur’an 3:37] ”

Gospel of James

“ And Mary was in the Temple nurtured like a dove and received food from the hand of an angel. Gospel of James 8:1

Casting lots to care for Mary
Quran

“ they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary. [Qur’an 3:44] ”

Gospel of James

“ [L]et every one of them bring his rod, and he by whom the Lord will show a sign will be the husband of Mary” Gospel of James 8:6

Mary receives miracles from baby Jesus
The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew describes Mary sitting below a palm tree with Jesus, Jesus talking to Mary when he is a baby and baby Jesus performing miracles to nourish Mary with dates from a palm tree and a stream of water.

Quran chapter 19

“ So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): “Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!” But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. [Qur’an 19:22] ”

Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew chapter 20

“ And it came to pass on the third day of their journey, while they were walking, that the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive heat of the sun in the desert; and seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph: Let me rest a little under the shade of this tree. Joseph therefore made haste, and led her to the palm, and made her come down from her beast. And as the blessed Mary was sitting there, she looked up to the foliage of the palm, and saw it full of fruit, and said to Joseph: I wish it were possible to get some of the fruit of this palm. And Joseph said to her: I wonder that thou sayest this, when thou seest how high the palm tree is; and that thou thinkest of eating of its fruit. I am thinking more of the want of water, because the skins are now empty, and we have none wherewith to refresh ourselves and our cattle. Then the child Jesus, with a joyful countenance, reposing in the bosom of His mother, said to the palm: O tree, bend thy branches, and refresh my mother with thy fruit. And immediately at these words the palm bent its top down to the very feet of the blessed Mary; and they gathered from it fruit, with which they were all refreshed. And after they had gathered all its fruit, it remained bent down, waiting the order to rise from Him who bad commanded it to stoop. Then Jesus said to it: Raise thyself, O palm tree, and be strong, and be the companion of my trees, which are in the paradise of my Father; and open from thy roots a vein of water which has been hid in the earth, and let the waters flow, so that we may be satisfied from thee. And it rose up immediately, and at its root there began to come forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and cool and sparkling. And when they saw the spring of water, they rejoiced with great joy, and were satisfied, themselves and all their cattle and their beasts. Wherefore they gave thanks to God.

Jesus creates birds

In the Qur’an, Jesus forms birds out of clay,

Quran

“ I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird [Qur’an []] ”

This parallels an episode in the apocryphal Infancy Gospel of Thomas where he does the same Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew chapter 20

Infancy Gospel of Thomas

“ [Jesus] then made soft clay and shaped it into twelve sparrows.[19] ”

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas was written, at the earliest, in the second century or, at the latest, in the sixth century.

Jesus speaks in the cradle

The Injilu 't Tufuliyyah or the Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ, contains an Arabic translation of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas and additional narratives. This contains a narrative of Jesus speaking while an infant, also contained in the Qur’an.

Quran

“ But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?” He [Jesus] said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; [Qur’an 19:29] ”

Infancy Gospel of Thomas

“ Jesus spake when he was in the cradle, and called out to his mother Mary:— “Verily I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Word, whom thou hast given birth to according to the good tidings given thee by the Angel Gabriel, and my Father hath sent me for the Salvation of the World.”

 

[Zlatan]

Basically everything in the Koran about Jesus and Mary was plagiarized by Mohammad from various dubious apocryphal gospels. The koran plagiarizes so much from Christianity its astonishing. Even Jannah, the Islamic heaven depicted in the Koran is plagiarized directly from St Ephrem the Syrian’s Hymns on paradise written in the 4th century whcih were nothing more than Christian poetry but surprise surprise Mohammad interpreted them literally.

 

[Zlatan]

and by the way the gospel of Barnabas is a medieval forgery, this is what scholars believe about it. it is not just me saying it.

Even Muslim scholars have admitted it’s a forgery

Cyril Glassé a Muslim scholar states:
“…there is no question that it is a medieval forgery. A complete Italian manuscript exists which appears to be a translation from a Spanish original (which exists in part), written to curry favor with Muslims of the time. It contains anachronisms which can date only from the Middle Ages and not before, and shows a garbled comprehension of Islamic doctrines, calling the Prophet ‘the Messiah’, which Islam does not claim for him. Besides its farcical notion of sacred history, stylistically it is a mediocre parody of the Gospels…”

religioustolerance.org/gosp_b.htm

It is not the same as the early Christian document the Epistle of Barnabas. There never was a gospel of Barnabas recorded anywhere until the 15th century. Please explain why the earliest manuscript dates from the 15th century and was written in Italian and Spanish not in Koine Greek nor even in Hebrew or Aramaic?

 

[FightingFat]

He also is the only one whose mother is mentioned by name repeatedly and of course she herself had a unique encounter with God and the holy spirit.

Of course, you know why?

Is it just me or does Al Qu’ran simply read like revision of the Bible? I mean this Surah is just Luke’s story rehashed in Arabic is it not? Koranist, it seems you are looking at the theology behind the text and coming to the Biblical truth on your own.

Can I ask why you are a koranist and how this differs from a Muslim?

 

[koranist]

Of course, you know why?

Is it just me or does Al Qu’ran simply read like revision of the Bible? I mean this Surah is just Luke’s story rehashed in Arabic is it not? Koranist, it seems you are looking at the theology behind the text and coming to the Biblical truth on your own.

Can I ask why you are a koranist and how this differs from a Muslim?

Koranist believe the Koran explains itself and is self sufficient. They believe only the Koran is binding even if the accept the oral traditions. But they would not accept anything that contradict the Koran like apostasy laws and Shariah laws. Muslims believe the prophetic traditions(hadith) explains the Koran and the Koran could not be understood by itself. Muslims belive many obligations can be found from hadith and basically believe anyone who does not accept that is an infidel regardless of who he is. Therefore Muhammad is very important for them since its his traditions they follow. Koranist believe these traditions were fabricated and are not authentic. They say Muhamad can not impose anything on anyone thats not laid out in the Koran. Koranist believe the hadith and Koran contradict one another.

So you end up in the end with 2 different Islams .

Sunni and Shia are very similar in concept to Rabbinic Judaism(Pharisees) and are very similar in many ways.

 

[FightingFat]

Koranist believe the Koran explains itself and is self sufficient. They believe only the Koran is binding even if the accept the oral traditions. But they would not accept anything that contradict the Koran like apostasy laws and Shariah laws. Muslims believe the prophetic traditions(hadith) explains the Koran and the Koran could not be understood by itself. Muslims belive many obligations can be found from hadith and basically believe anyone who does not accept that is an infidel regardless of who he is. Therefore Muhammad is very important for them since its his traditions they follow. Koranist believe these traditions were fabricated and are not authentic. They say Muhamad can not impose anything on anyone thats not laid out in the Koran. Koranist believe the hadith and Koran contradict one another.

So you end up in the end with 2 different Islams .

Sunni and Shia are very similar in concept to Rabbinic Judaism(Pharisees) and are very similar in many ways.

So as far as you’re concerned, Al Qu’ran was literally written by God? It is God’s discourse in Arabic?

 

[koranist]

The question of whether the Koran was created or revealed is an old one. I am not a trained philosopher so i will use what the Koran says. Its what I believe God revealed to Muhammad by word. Whether its God’s actual language or creation this is not something I can answer since nobody knows God’s nature. But I believe it is the words God chose to reveal to Muhammad in Arabic.

Jesus was God’s words in himself as he spoke in the cradle and was genetic coded with God’s revelation. Moses and Muhammad was an external process. God “talked” to Moses and gave him signs, he gave Solomon power over the Jinns and animals. Its a complicated process. But anyone who reads the Koran can easily see that somebody is talking to somebody in the Koran whose name happens to be Muhammad. Thats why the pagans said Muhammad conned it. He made it appear he was being communicated to. Which is something difficult to do. They also said he was mad or possesed, as mad and possessed people believe somebody is communicating with them and they hear voices. How that communication took place I don’t know.

 

[imasinner]

Koranist

The Gospels you mention are not inspired therefore not included in the Holy Bible. Protestants took out several books cannonised by the Church and Muslims or Koranists like yourself try to add to it. I agree with you the Quran confirms the validity of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures but the author (Mohammad not Allah) was clueless as to what constituted the cannonised version. But why bother with your arguement if you are going to use books that is not actually accepted by Christians as inspired?