The Last Gospel and Prayers after mass

[jimmy]

I am curious, is it permissable that the preist say the last gospel and the prayer to Michael the Archangel after mass as it was done before. Technically the mass is over(The preist said “Ita, missa est” and then the last gospel was said.) so would it be an abuse for the preist to do it?

I really love this part of the old mass and wish they would bring it back.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Technically that would be an abuse because it would be mixing two different missals. He is more than welcome to do so privately, but not while the congregation is present. I know many priests who say the Prayer of St. Michael after Mass while they are removing their vestments.

Since the priest (and, if there is one, deacon) are expected to greet the people after Mass, it’s difficult to squeeze the Last Gospel in, even privately.

Deacon Ed

 

[muledog]

Deacon Ed:

Technically that would be an abuse because it would be mixing two different missals. He is more than welcome to do so privately, but not while the congregation is present. I know many priests who say the Prayer of St. Michael after Mass while they are removing their vestments.

I would have to disagree. Since the Mass is already completed at this point, anything the priest/people do wouldn’t affect the Mass any. “Mixing missals” is irrelevant for the same reason - the Mass is ended.

Using your line line of thinking, you would have to omit the recessional hymn, since it was part of the “old” missal, and is not found in the new Ordo Missae.

That being said, I don’t think it would be proper for the priest to begin the prayers immediately after saying/singing “The Mass is ended, go in Peace.”

It would be more proper (in my opinion) for the celebrant (and others in the procession) to leave the Sanctuary-proper and return sans chasuble before praying after Mass.
Deacon Ed:

Since the priest (and, if there is one, deacon) are expected to greet the people after Mass, it’s difficult to squeeze the Last Gospel in, even privately.

Greeting people after mass shouldn’t be an issue, since celebrants, deacons and everyone at Mass are expected/encouraged to offer prayers of Thanksgiving after Mass (these are printed in the current Roman Missal).

 

[Legatus]

Deacon Ed is right. It would be mixing two Missals. In the old Rite the Mass did not end with the Ite Missa Est. There followed the “Placeat” (said silently), the last Blessing, the Last Gospel and (in Low Masses) the so-called Leonine Prayers for the conversion of Russia which included the prayer “O Holy Michael.” There is a certain lack of logic in this arrangement which for centuries seemed to bother no one but the Post Vatican II Liturgical Reformers were nothing if not logical so they moved the “Ite” to after the Blessing and ended the Mass then and there.

There is no mention of a recessional hymn in the old missal nor is it (as far as I know) mentioned in the new missal. Unlike the Introit (or whatever passes for an Introit these days) the recessional is and always has been liturgically meaningless.

 

[muledog]

Legatus:

Deacon Ed is right. It would be mixing two Missals. In the old Rite the Mass did not end with the Ite Missa Est. There followed the “Placeat” (said silently), the last Blessing, the Last Gospel and (in Low Masses) the so-called Leonine Prayers for the conversion of Russia which included the prayer “O Holy Michael.”

Actually, the so-called “prayers after Mass” were officially suppressed in 1967. Therefore, even if you would consider it a “mixing of missals” between the current Ordo Missae of 1969 and the previous one of 1968, these prayers were NO LONGER PART of the ordinary of the Mass.

As stated earlier, MASS IS ENDED at this point. Anything that occurs from then on has nothing to do with the Mass. The priest could theoretically dance naked on the altar (which would be extremely outrageous), but it wouldn’t have anything to do with the Mass’s validity or licitness (IMHO).

 

[Chatter163]

The Leonine prayers were essentially made optio al in 1962 and were officially suppressed in March, 1965.

 

[JimG]

Legatus:

There is no mention of a recessional hymn in the old missal nor is it (as far as I know) mentioned in the new missal. Unlike the Introit (or whatever passes for an Introit these days) the recessional is and always has been liturgically meaningless.

Liturgically meaningless? You mean we should (and always should in the past) have simply ended the Mass with no hymn at all, the priest and servers exiting silently?

This was done in TLM “low Masses” in the past, and even currently is done at many weekday Masses. But could or should it be done at Sunday Mass?

 

[steve99]

I heard that someone did some research into the “Last Gospel”. Apparently in earlier times there used to be a healing service after Mass. For each person the prologue of the Gospel of John was read and the book of the Gospel was placed on his/her head (and a few other rituals I think). But over time the ritual was collapsed and bits left out until finally the origin was forgotten and just the Gospel was read once at the end of Mass.

As there was no purpose left for the “Last Gospel” it was dropped when the Mass was revised.

 

[muledog]

Chatter163:

The Leonine prayers were essentially made optio al in 1962 and were officially suppressed in March, 1965.

Thanks for the correction, Chatter163. I couldn’t remember the exact date that Inter Oecumenici took effect.

JimG:

Liturgically meaningless? You mean we should (and always should in the past) have simply ended the Mass with no hymn at all, the priest and servers exiting silently?

This was done in TLM “low Masses” in the past, and even currently is done at many weekday Masses. But could or should it be done at Sunday Mass?

Legatus is correct here. The so-called “recessional hymn” is not to be found in any liturgical books. It is a custom in some places, but is not by any means mandatory or necessary.

Instead, I would rather see the priest kneel before the altar/tabernacle, and pray the Prayers of Thanksgiving that are found in the current Roman Missal.

These prayers are specifically geared towards offering thanksgiving after Mass. In reality, these - or any other prayer(s) - may be prayed. That is why would have no heartburn if a celebrant decided to offer prayers of thanksgiving after Mass using the so-called “Leonine Prayers.”

 

[Legatus]

JimG:

Liturgically meaningless? You mean we should (and always should in the past) have simply ended the Mass with no hymn at all, the priest and servers exiting silently?

This was done in TLM “low Masses” in the past, and even currently is done at many weekday Masses. But could or should it be done at Sunday Mass?

Yes! Liturgically meaningless! That was why in the pre-Vatican II Mass, even in Sung or High Masses when no vernacular singing was allowed it was permissable to sing a vernacular hymn at the end since the liturgy was over.

 

[Legatus]

steve99:

I heard that someone did some research into the “Last Gospel”. Apparently in earlier times there used to be a healing service after Mass. For each person the prologue of the Gospel of John was read and the book of the Gospel was placed on his/her head (and a few other rituals I think). But over time the ritual was collapsed and bits left out until finally the origin was forgotten and just the Gospel was read once at the end of Mass.

As there was no purpose left for the “Last Gospel” it was dropped when the Mass was revised.

I have never heard of St.John’s Prologue being used as a Healing Rite and it’s text seems hardly suited to that purpose. In Medieval times it was recited by the priest on his way back to the sacristy as a form of thanksgiving. To a great extent St. John’s Prologue summarises what has taken place in the Mass and when it was used (sometimes it was replaced by another Gospel e.g. weekdays in Lent) the Priest’s final words at Mass were, “…and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.” How beautiful!

The Last Gospel retained it’s purpose i.e.praising God, right up to the last day it was recited but the Post Vatican II reformers were most anxious to chop off everything after the “Ite Missa Est” whether it was beautiful or not.

 

[jimmy]

I am still unsure whether it would be allowed. On the one hand it was suppressed in 1965. I don’t know what that means considering the mass is ended and it is not part of the mass. Are the prayers not allowed to be said publicly anymore or something? It doesn’t make sense to me. It also seems like it would be no different than the hymn at the closing procession.

 

[totustuusmaria]

jimmy:

I am curious, is it permissable that the preist say the last gospel and the prayer to Michael the Archangel after mass as it was done before. Technically the mass is over(The preist said “Ita, missa est” and then the last gospel was said.) so would it be an abuse for the preist to do it?

I really love this part of the old mass and wish they would bring it back.

The prayer to Saint Michael, the Salve, and the “Most Sacred Heart” were all supressed in the Missal of 1962, but they were continued to be said just not as part of the Mass. There is no reason why those prayers could be said. The last gospel is a little more challenging since it is liturgical by nature. My knowledge isn’t vast enough to clarify that.

 

[Chatter163]

The last gospel was part of the Mass texts from 1570 until 1965 and is no longer part of the missal, so it would not be permissible to read it at the end of Mass,

The Leonine prayers were appointed to be recited after Low Mass, in several different forms, between 1886 and 1962 and were permitted until 1965. After that they ceased to be a part of public recitation after Mass. All but one of the prayers are frequently recited as part of the rosary, and may be prayed devotionally, but not as a public appendage to the Mass.