The Late 60s and the Transition - Reflections and Recollections

[brotherhrolf]

For the record, I am perfectly content with a reverent OF and have no desire to go back to the EF. It’s not a matter of a Mass in Latin but rather the idea of reverence, a sense of the sacred, a sense of entering into worship of God rather than corporate worship.

I was a teenager in high school when we transitioned from the TLM to the NO. I attended a Catholic high school . In 1967 the brothers who taught me wore black cassocks and had large rosaries as belts. In 1968 they wore black pants, a white shirt, and a black tie (with the exception of many of the older brothers who retained their habits).

Where am I trying to go with this? I am really frustrated by the number of myths about the years before Vatican II and the myth that “all of us were relieved when V II came about”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There were 150 guys in my class back in high school. I sang in the choir for the class of 1968’s graduation and it was traditional Catholic hymns and chant. When I graduated in 1969, it was “Sons of God”, “Bridge over Troubled Waters”, “Sounds of Silence”, and “They’ll Know We are Christians”.

I have brothers and sisters on these forums who are of an age with me. I was perfectly acceptable with my Catholicism, the TLM, Latin, the whole nine yards.

Many of my generation advanced the cause for the NO. But, there were large numbers of us who did not appreciate what happened but submitted to the authority of the magisterium of HMC as did our parents.

I am really tired of hearing all these “nobody knew what the Mass was all about before V II” myths. I was a teen during the transition and I can most heartedly assure you that I was quite content with HMC as it existed before the change and, strangely enough, I really did know what was going on.

I am calling upon my fellow Catholics who were teenagers during the transition from the TLM to the NO. There is so much focus on teenagers today. We were there. What do/did you think?

 

[Brenda_V]

I am waiting with baited breath for the responses . I was still in Grammar School when all of this happened and not only that but for part of it I was moving around with my parents as my dad was transferred to different Bases overseas so I didn’t recognize any changes as being anything but being a member of a different Chapel on different Air Bases.

Brenda V.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

For the record, I am perfectly content with a reverent OF and have no desire to go back to the EF. It’s not a matter of a Mass in Latin but rather the idea of reverence, a sense of the sacred, a sense of entering into worship of God rather than corporate worship.

brotherholf,

I appreciate the insights from someone who was actually there. Yet you say you have no desire to go back to the EF. Yet I would say pretty much everything else you praise such as the music, the cassocks, the Catholic identity of Priests and laity go part and parcel with the TLM.

To me it is just no surprise that the introduction of a liturgy which downplayed our Catholic distinctives to remove any stumbling blocks from Protestants coincided with the downplaying or removal of other Catholic distinctives in the way Priests dressed, the music, and the overall Catholic identity of just about every area of Catholic life.

I think these things go hand in hand and you can’t have a stripped down liturgy (not that you want that) and a vibrant Catholic identity at the same time. And I would say the TLM provides that even if there are some places that celebrate the NO without abuses.

God bless.

 

[Indyann]

For the record, I am perfectly content with a reverent OF and have no desire to go back to the EF. It’s not a matter of a Mass in Latin but rather the idea of reverence, a sense of the sacred, a sense of entering into worship of God rather than corporate worship.

I was a teenager in high school when we transitioned from the TLM to the NO. I attended a Catholic high school . In 1967 the brothers who taught me wore black cassocks and had large rosaries as belts. In 1968 they wore black pants, a white shirt, and a black tie (with the exception of many of the older brothers who retained their habits).

Where am I trying to go with this? I am really frustrated by the number of myths about the years before Vatican II and the myth that “all of us were relieved when V II came about”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There were 150 guys in my class back in high school. I sang in the choir for the class of 1968’s graduation and it was traditional Catholic hymns and chant. When I graduated in 1969, it was “Sons of God”, “Bridge over Troubled Waters”, “Sounds of Silence”, and “They’ll Know We are Christians”.

I have brothers and sisters on these forums who are of an age with me. I was perfectly acceptable with my Catholicism, the TLM, Latin, the whole nine yards.

Many of my generation advanced the cause for the NO. But, there were large numbers of us who did not appreciate what happened but submitted to the authority of the magisterium of HMC as did our parents.

I am really tired of hearing all these “nobody knew what the Mass was all about before V II” myths. I was a teen during the transition and I can most heartedly assure you that I was quite content with HMC as it existed before the change and, strangely enough, I really did know what was going on.

I am calling upon my fellow Catholics who were teenagers during the transition from the TLM to the NO. There is so much focus on teenagers today. We were there. What do/did you think?

I was there also. I can say that I was very happy that the Mass was now in English. I had gone through 8 years of primary education by wonderful Franciscan nuns and then 4 years of Catholic high school by good and holy Benedictans.

So, I don’t think I was poorly catechized. I simply did not understand or comprehend exactly what the Mass was. Oh, I knew all the parts of the Mass and all the prayers, etc. I knew that the Eucharist was the Body and Blood of our Savior. I memorized the Baltimore catechism, etc., etc., etc.

But it was not until I heard the words “This IS My body” that I really “got it”.

At that time frequent Communion was not encouraged. Most only went on First Friday or First Saturday. (during school Masses)

And I don’t ever remember singing secular songs during Mass. (Could have happened, but did not make a lasting impression). We did sing a lot of Carey Landry which I actually liked.

Then, I was away from the Church for several years. I truly hungered to hear the word “This IS my Body. This IS my Blood”.

I recently thought about attending the TLM at the local TLM parish,(just for old times sake)
but I found out they promote Medjegori.
So how orthodox can they be? Plus some of the hateful, angry “Traditionalists” on these forums have really deterred me. I don’t want to run into any like them “in person”.

 

[BobP123]

I attended a Catholic high school during the Vatican II years. Never missed Mass before that. After realizing what was happening, I decided to forego attending Catholic college in favor of a state university. I got too wrapped up in my studies in math and physics to even be bothered by all the nonsense going on in the Church. It wasn’t until my first fiance got me to attend the Novus Ordo in Toledo in 1970 that I decided to start the Sunday worship again. However, I never quite felt comfortable with it.

What one doesn’t do for the opposite sex.

Ok, now bring on the comments about worshipping God and not your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouses. You got me.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I was there also. I can say that I was very happy that the Mass was now in English. I had gone through 8 years of primary education by wonderful Franciscan nuns and then 4 years of Catholic high school by good and holy Benedictans.

So, I don’t think I was poorly catechized. I simply did not understand or comprehend exactly what the Mass was. Oh, I knew all the parts of the Mass and all the prayers, etc. I knew that the Eucharist was the Body and Blood of our Savior. I memorized the Baltimore catechism, etc., etc., etc.

But it was not until I heard the words “This IS My body” that I really “got it”.

At that time frequent Communion was not encouraged. Most only went on First Friday or First Saturday. (during school Masses)

And I don’t ever remember singing secular songs during Mass. (Could have happened, but did not make a lasting impression). We did sing a lot of Carey Landry which I actually liked.

Then, I was away from the Church for several years. I truly hungered to hear the word “This IS my Body. This IS my Blood”.

I recently thought about attending the TLM at the local TLM parish,(just for old times sake)
but I found out they promote Medjegori.
So how orthodox can they be? Plus some of the hateful, angry “Traditionalists” on these forums have really deterred me. I don’t want to run into any like them “in person”.

A local TLM parish supports Medjugorje?! That is truly surprising. I would expect a TLM parish to either ignore or rebut Medjugorje.

Honestly, sometimes I think traditionalists are called “hateful” and “angry” merely because they oppose certain prudential decisions the Vatican has made.

 

[Indyann]

A local TLM parish supports Medjugorje?! That is truly surprising. I would expect a TLM parish to either ignore or rebut Medjugorje.

Honestly, sometimes I think traditionalists are called “hateful” and “angry” merely because they oppose certain prudential decisions the Vatican has made.

Yes, they do. There was a huge celebration there a couple of years ago when the 25th anniversary was celebrated.
This parish is “bi-ritual” in that the FSSP say the Tridentine and the Vicar General of the Archdioicese says the N.O.

It is not that traditionalists oppose decisions that Vatican has made, it is the way in which some express that opposition.

 

[m134e5]

Honestly, sometimes I think traditionalists are called “hateful” and “angry” merely because they oppose certain prudential decisions the Vatican has made.

I have seen people jerk their hands away from those next to them during the Our Father so forcefully that they caused a scene. I have watched people chew out waitresses at restaurants for offering them meat on Fridays during Lent (great way to evangelize, guys… ). Certain traditionalists do come across as hateful and angry. It has been my experience that most of them are former protestant fundamentalists who learned all they learned about Catholicism from books- often before ever going to Mass. Most of them got rude awakenings when they realized that things weren’t what they expected. They converted to Catholicism, but they still remained fundamentalists in their attitude (giving every little detail equal importance), and they never seemed to get the concept of charity (not helping the poor kind of charity- the theological virtue of charity).

 

[palmas85]

In 1966, I went overseas for a while along with a lot of other young men. Some of us came back. Others did not. When I left, the Traditional Mass was still the norm in my area, A few places were experimenting with the hybrid that was being developed but they were few and far between. Overseas, I didn’t make it to Mass very often and we really didn’t have many of them to begin with. Most of the military services were interreligious in nature. I did get to Christmas Mass in Saigon, Traditional Mass and it was nice. When I made it back to the states, my faith had been seriously battered by the stark reality if what I had seen happen overseas . Upon my return to the states I was refused communion by a priest in the first Mass I went to as I was in uniform. This was after a very nasty reception at the airport by a group which included Priests and Nuns, Those events really demoralized me.

For a while from about 70-76 or so, I drifted, attending this and that type of religious experience, this was the time of the Children of Jesus movement and evangelical protestantism was in full swing. More and more people were drifting away from catholicism as it seemed to be a boring place beside the spectacles of the evangelicals.

Every now and then I would pop into a Mass but it had grown more and more bizarre with different rituals, nuns reading Gospels, corn tortillas being consecrated prayers to the Earth Mother, you name it it happened. Finally, after much reflection, I decided that I had to comply with the Church rules and started attending Mass again regularly.

It was horrible. Sermons seemed to be exclusively about the dignity of man and how we as the physical embodiment of Christ had to work to improve mans condition first and foremost. Adoration of God was placed on a back burner and we were encouraged to focus completely on improving mans condition in the world. . It seemed as if salvation of your soul took a rear seat to community activism. In fact it seemed as if the entire focus of the faith had shifted from Christ in heaven to building heaven on earth. While I attended Mass inside I seethed at some of the messages being thrown out at us. We were told to look at illegal immigrants and see them as Christ because he too wandered from place to place. We were advised that experimentation of a sexual nature was all right because our sexuality was a gift from God, no matter what we desired. All forms of Traditional devotion were mocked. Rosaries were not allowed in Church before or after Mass, statues of mary and the saints removed. High altars ripped out and replaced with table. Hexk, I went to one Mass in South Texas where trhe altar used was a card table with a sheet over it. This in a church that had a magnificent High Altar. The Nuns and Priest there said the altar was not in line with current thwological thought and should be avoided. Confession was discounted and everyone attending was invited to the Eucharist. Catholic or not. And on and on and on.

Pope John Paul II came into power and started to tighten things up a bit, to the consternation of many in the upper circles. He had an open rebellion on his hands with the Jesuits and their brand of Liberation Theology which preached that violent confrontation was necessary to alleviate the plight of the poor. I still remember the film of the Holy Father being jeered and booed by Priests Nuns and Seminarians in Nicaragua. He brought back Marian devotion which really ticked off a lot of people.

Then the Holy Father made a drastic decision. He allowed the Traditional Mass again. Oh what we heard about that . The Church was taking a step no 100 steps backward. All of the gains we had made were going to be swept away, ecumenism would be destroyed, we would lose the respect that we had gained from the protestants and orthodox, sound theological development was being replaced by nostalgia. We were warned against attending the Traditional Mass as God would not be there.and on and on.

I started attending because San Diego was the first place to allow the celebration of the Traditional Mass, Suddenly it seemed as if all the craziness of the previous 20 years had ended at least for a while. Once again in the familiar trappings of the Traditional Mass, I once again felt the presence of God that had been missing for so long.

Oh well, I guess I got a little winded on that one.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Yes, they do. There was a huge celebration there a couple of years ago when the 25th anniversary was celebrated.
This parish is “bi-ritual” in that the FSSP say the Tridentine and the Vicar General of the Archdioicese says the N.O.

It is not that traditionalists oppose decisions that Vatican has made, it is the way in which some express that opposition.

Well, my guess would be that the folks who attend the FSSP Masses would not be particularly supportive of Medjugorje.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I have seen people jerk their hands away from those next to them during the Our Father so forcefully that they caused a scene. I have watched people chew out waitresses at restaurants for offering them meat on Fridays during Lent (great way to evangelize, guys… ). Certain traditionalists do come across as hateful and angry. It has been my experience that most of them are former protestant fundamentalists who learned all they learned about Catholicism from books- often before ever going to Mass. Most of them got rude awakenings when they realized that things weren’t what they expected. They converted to Catholicism, but they still remained fundamentalists in their attitude (giving every little detail equal importance), and they never seemed to get the concept of charity (not helping the poor kind of charity- the theological virtue of charity).

Yes, I suppose there are individual traditionalists who can act like jerks. If I refer someone to traditionalist writings (or writings with traditionalist leanings) it is to men like Dietrich von Hildebrand, Dom Alcuin Reid, Fr. Aidan Nichols, etc. If someone has an issue with the way they present their arguments, well, what can I say?

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

In 1966, I went overseas for a while along with a lot of other young men. Some of us came back. Others did not. When I left, the Traditional Mass was still the norm in my area, A few places were experimenting with the hybrid that was being developed but they were few and far between. Overseas, I didn’t make it to Mass very often and we really didn’t have many of them to begin with. Most of the military services were interreligious in nature. I did get to Christmas Mass in Saigon, Traditional Mass and it was nice. When I made it back to the states, my faith had been seriously battered by the stark reality if what I had seen happen overseas . Upon my return to the states I was refused communion by a priest in the first Mass I went to as I was in uniform. This was after a very nasty reception at the airport by a group which included Priests and Nuns, Those events really demoralized me.

For a while from about 70-76 or so, I drifted, attending this and that type of religious experience, this was the time of the Children of Jesus movement and evangelical protestantism was in full swing. More and more people were drifting away from catholicism as it seemed to be a boring place beside the spectacles of the evangelicals.

Every now and then I would pop into a Mass but it had grown more and more bizarre with different rituals, nuns reading Gospels, corn tortillas being consecrated prayers to the Earth Mother, you name it it happened. Finally, after much reflection, I decided that I had to comply with the Church rules and started attending Mass again regularly.

It was horrible. Sermons seemed to be exclusively about the dignity of man and how we as the physical embodiment of Christ had to work to improve mans condition first and foremost. Adoration of God was placed on a back burner and we were encouraged to focus completely on improving mans condition in the world. . It seemed as if salvation of your soul took a rear seat to community activism. In fact it seemed as if the entire focus of the faith had shifted from Christ in heaven to building heaven on earth. While I attended Mass inside I seethed at some of the messages being thrown out at us. We were told to look at illegal immigrants and see them as Christ because he too wandered from place to place. We were advised that experimentation of a sexual nature was all right because our sexuality was a gift from God, no matter what we desired. All forms of Traditional devotion were mocked. Rosaries were not allowed in Church before or after Mass, statues of mary and the saints removed. High altars ripped out and replaced with table. Hexk, I went to one Mass in South Texas where trhe altar used was a card table with a sheet over it. This in a church that had a magnificent High Altar. The Nuns and Priest there said the altar was not in line with current thwological thought and should be avoided. Confession was discounted and everyone attending was invited to the Eucharist. Catholic or not. And on and on and on.

Pope John Paul II came into power and started to tighten things up a bit, to the consternation of many in the upper circles. He had an open rebellion on his hands with the Jesuits and their brand of Liberation Theology which preached that violent confrontation was necessary to alleviate the plight of the poor. I still remember the film of the Holy Father being jeered and booed by Priests Nuns and Seminarians in Nicaragua. He brought back Marian devotion which really ticked off a lot of people.

Then the Holy Father made a drastic decision. He allowed the Traditional Mass again. Oh what we heard about that . The Church was taking a step no 100 steps backward. All of the gains we had made were going to be swept away, ecumenism would be destroyed, we would lose the respect that we had gained from the protestants and orthodox, sound theological development was being replaced by nostalgia. We were warned against attending the Traditional Mass as God would not be there.and on and on.

I started attending because San Diego was the first place to allow the celebration of the Traditional Mass, Suddenly it seemed as if all the craziness of the previous 20 years had ended at least for a while. Once again in the familiar trappings of the Traditional Mass, I once again felt the presence of God that had been missing for so long.

Oh well, I guess I got a little winded on that one.

Good post.

 

[brotherhrolf]

brotherholf,

I appreciate the insights from someone who was actually there. Yet you say you have no desire to go back to the EF. Yet I would say pretty much everything else you praise such as the music, the cassocks, the Catholic identity of Priests and laity go part and parcel with the TLM.

To me it is just no surprise that the introduction of a liturgy which downplayed our Catholic distinctives to remove any stumbling blocks from Protestants coincided with the downplaying or removal of other Catholic distinctives in the way Priests dressed, the music, and the overall Catholic identity of just about every area of Catholic life.

I think these things go hand in hand and you can’t have a stripped down liturgy (not that you want that) and a vibrant Catholic identity at the same time. And I would say the TLM provides that even if there are some places that celebrate the NO without abuses.

God bless.

I don’t think that an NO said in Latin with all the options (I mean really, when was the last time anyone said the Confiteor much less the Creed at an English NO?) becoming mandatory is that entirely different from the TLM with the exception that there are three other Eucharistic rites which could be used. I guess I recognize the fact that what I remember of my Catholic identity is no where near what my children know even though they were raised in an orthodox cathedral parish. It took a long time for my cathedral parish to accept the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei plainsong chants during Lent. The NO, in form, would at least be recognizable to them. I guess what I am saying is that I and those of my generation and oldeer would have no problem going back to the TLM - but 40 years have passed under the bridge (wow, that 40 year statement just hit me square between the eyes). I’ve seen the fear so many have today about Mass in Latin, etc. What I guess I am trying to say is that instead of the abrupt transition from the TLM to the NO that I experienced, I would like to see a far more gradual transition back? Does that make sense?

 

[brotherhrolf]

At that time frequent Communion was not encouraged. Most only went on First Friday or First Saturday. (during school Masses)

I went to Communion on Sundays and on any week day Mass I served. First Fridays was a devotion to the Sacred Heart. As a member of the Confraternity of the Sacred Heart, and taught by the Brothers of the Sacred Heart, we had a devotion to First Fridays

catholictradition.org/Two-Hearts/sacred-heart3b.htm

But all through high school, I spent many a lunch hour in the chapel before the Blessed Sacrament in prayer.

 

[brotherhrolf]

In 1966, I went overseas for a while along with a lot of other young men. Some of us came back. Others did not./QUOTE]

I’m probably just about 3 or 4 years younger than you, my friend but had similar experiences in 1971. It is hard to explain how it was before Vatican II and to live in an overwhelmingly Catholic city. No A/C back then so at noon on the corner of Rampart and Esplanade, we could hear the cathedral and St. Augustine tolling the hours - and we said the Angelus. There were always priests at Jesuit’s ready to hear confession after school then. I

was fortunate in that in 1983 I was asked to join the (then) sagging cathedral choir. After a year, I asked to transfer my membership from my local geographic parish to the cathedral parish. You would have thought I committed the most heinous mortal sin.

I can’t complain about my parish. It’s orthodox (except when we have to sing for diocesan events and I’ve learned to excuse myself from them) and we at least sing and chant a lot of Latin. I was disappointed that our bishop merely “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio since our local indult parish is strictly Low Mass.

But the point you bring up is one that I bring up constantly. Many of us were properly catechized before Vatican II. We did know what the Latin meant and we did participate. Our point of view was not a minority point of view back then. We submitted to the magisterium of HMC.

 

[brotherhrolf]

You know, holding hands during the Our Father is an invention of the 80s. From my position in the choir loft, I can always tell when we have visitors to the cathedral. It is not in the rubrics and we (the parish) don’t do it. The solution is to keep your hands folded in prayer and ignore the hand holders without causing a scene. Do you know how awkward it looks to have a family holding hands during a chanted Our Father and For the Kindom and raising those hands when everyone else isn’t?

 

[lak611]

You know, holding hands during the Our Father is an invention of the 80s. From my position in the choir loft, I can always tell when we have visitors to the cathedral. It is not in the rubrics and we (the parish) don’t do it. The solution is to keep your hands folded in prayer and ignore the hand holders without causing a scene. Do you know how awkward it looks to have a family holding hands during a chanted Our Father and For the Kindom and raising those hands when everyone else isn’t?

My pastor instructed the congregation not to hold hands when this started creeping into the parish. It worked! Nobody does this any more.

 

[brotherhrolf]

My pastor instructed the congregation not to hold hands when this started creeping into the parish. It worked! Nobody does this any more.

That’s nice to know that some of this is coming to an end. It’s not about us and our community but about Our Lord. The sight of Father running up and down the aisles to shake hands during the sign of peace …:bigyikes: All well and good to offer me the sign of peace but what if I am in a state of mortal sin and not going to Communion? Is it about us or about Him? I have to say people look at me like I am crazy today if I am in a state of mortal sin and do not go to Communion. And I will not receive unworthily . I’m not holding myself up as better, this was the major thing which was drilled into us kids before Vatican II. If you have the slightest doubt, far better to make a spiritual communion than to profane Our Lord by receiving unworthily. My conscience is the product of my pre-Vatican II catechesis. I’d probably be called scrupulous today.

 

[lak611]

That’s nice to know that some of this is coming to an end. It’s not about us and our community but about Our Lord. The sight of Father running up and down the aisles to shake hands during the sign of peace …:bigyikes: All well and good to offer me the sign of peace but what if I am in a state of mortal sin and not going to Communion? Is it about us or about Him? I have to say people look at me like I am crazy today if I am in a state of mortal sin and do not go to Communion. And I will not receive unworthily . I’m not holding myself up as better, this was the major thing which was drilled into us kids before Vatican II. If you have the slightest doubt, far better to make a spiritual communion than to profane Our Lord by receiving unworthily. My conscience is the product of my pre-Vatican II catechesis. I’d probably be called scrupulous today.

I do the same thing as you. I was taught properly by my family. My pastor also put something in the church bulletin about proper dress for Mass in the summer (no shorts–church has AC) and no gum during Mass. He was wearing a nice chasuble today, too. Gothic style with white embroidered crosses down front and back in the shape of a big cross. I don’t think he likes the chasubles that look like sofa covers.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I don’t think that an NO said in Latin with all the options (I mean really, when was the last time anyone said the Confiteor much less the Creed at an English NO?) becoming mandatory is that entirely different from the TLM with the exception that there are three other Eucharistic rites which could be used. I guess I recognize the fact that what I remember of my Catholic identity is no where near what my children know even though they were raised in an orthodox cathedral parish. It took a long time for my cathedral parish to accept the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei plainsong chants during Lent. The NO, in form, would at least be recognizable to them. I guess what I am saying is that I and those of my generation and oldeer would have no problem going back to the TLM - but 40 years have passed under the bridge (wow, that 40 year statement just hit me square between the eyes). I’ve seen the fear so many have today about Mass in Latin, etc. What I guess I am trying to say is that instead of the abrupt transition from the TLM to the NO that I experienced, I would like to see a far more gradual transition back? Does that make sense?

Yes, brotherholf, a more gradual transition back does make sense. However, I have to admit that I wouldn’t mind it at all if tomorrow the Pope instituted the TLM as the only rite of the Latin Church, although that would shake up a number of people, obviously.

Or perhaps mandating celebrating ad orientem would be good for any Mass.

Regarding the different Eucharistic prayers we all know that Eucharistic prayer 1 (the Roman canon) is hardly ever used, and Eucharistic prayer 2 is used the most often (as I understand, it it the shortest, so this is not surprising).

I agree with your phrase “Catholic Identity” and that is key. I come from a Protestant background and I know each denomination has certain identifiers and ways they express worship and devotion. For some Protestants, it’s Bible study, for others, it might be the singing, for others it might be prayer meetings. Yet when so many of the devotions were taken away from Catholics, along with completely altering the liturgy and most of the churches, their identity, in a sense, was taken away from them.

And this is more than mere aesthetics; these devotions, along with the liturgy and the art and architecture, are means Catholics have used for centuries to draw closer to God and become more “divinized.” These are the means Catholics used to help save their souls. And when these are gone or radically altered, one wonders what Catholics are supposed to turn to. No wonder so many of them left and became Protestant;–at least the Protestants still had their own forms of devotion.

God bless.