The Latin Mass: Why You Can't Have It

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Many Catholics who are divorced, cohabitating, practice birth control, are pro-choice, etc. still go to Mass. Maybe not so much Anglophone Catholics but they still go.
Ok, sure, many do. Back to the point, the overriding reason people leave in my eperience is an intolerance for doctrine or a feeling of being unwelcome. Latin will not help them understand Catholicism better or draw them back. Quite the contrary. We (all of us) have to work on the substance of faith.
 
The EF actually has Latin, Greek and Hebrew in it. Maybe this is because the Mass is to proclaim the death of our Lord and make us aware of the spritual reality that we are partaking in the same sacrifice on Calvary where above Christ was written in Latin, Greek and Hebrew:

[bibledrb]john 19:19-20[/bibledrb]
 
An excellent article, and I recommend it for other converts to Catholicism who have become confused or upset reading some of the posts and threads on CAF about the Latin Mass.

The information in the article certainly matches what I have seen in our city. Our Latin Mass parish is right smack in the middle of the city conveniently-located for everyone in the city of 150,000. There are plenty of smaller towns within a half-hour drive of the parish.

The parish has the support of the Bishop.

The Latin Mass been offered there daily and several times on Sunday since the 1990s.

About four hundred people attend the parish. That’s all.

Our very contemporary parish has 7000 members, and we offer nine Masses on Sundays (including two Saturday evening Masses). These are very well attended.

Other parishes are also fairly full. Yes, there are parishes that are low in attendance, but much of this is economic–our city has a very high unemployment rate compared to the National rate, and a lot of people have just given up on church, or they’re working all the time at low-pay jobs and church has become a low priority for them. That’s tragic, IMO.

There is also a lot of attrition to the Willowcreek church plant, our local megachurch, which attracts almost a tenth of the population of the city to their Saturday evening and Sunday morning worship services–by the way, the music is very contemporary, thus casting doubt on the theory that many Christians are looking for traditional music.

Some people just bypass the church plant and drive an hour to Barrington straight to the real Willowcreek, which has around twenty-thousand people in attendance on Sunday morning.

We have several other very large Protestant churches in the city, including three that are the homes of the three largest Protestant schools in the city. (There are many dozens of smaller Protestant schools, along with the Catholic schools, and along with the very large population of home schools in the city). Many Catholic kids end up at these Protestant schools for various reasons, often having to do with price of tuition, and sometimes because they are recruited by athletic directors. Also, sad to say, a lot of kids go to the Protestant schools because they find them friendlier than the their Catholic parish schools. Often, these Catholic kids end up going to the Protestant churches with their friends, and eventually, the whole Catholic family starts attending the Protestant church because generally speaking, for families with school-aged kids, their friends are in their schools. It’s so easy to fall out of the habit of attending the church you grew up in.

Anyway, it’s a well-written, thought-provoking article and I appreciate it very much. Thank you to the author.
 
So put it through the Google translator if you can’t understand it. There’s your objective translation. Problem solved. 😃
Can I take my tablet to Latin Mass and pull it out in the middle of Liturgy?
 
Can I take my tablet to Latin Mass and pull it out in the middle of Liturgy?
Why can’t you take your Missal with the Latin on one side and the language of your choice on the other?

That’s what my parents and grandparents did, and that’s why to this day I have a French/Latin missal and an English/Latin missal.

The missals are quite small, smaller than the ‘missalettes’ in most U.S. churches.
 
Also, for the record, despite the implications and claims of the average ‘peasant’ until the "reformation’ being totally clueless over the Latin. . .as if said peasant was totally illiterate and thus stupid:

The world of that day was a lot more cosmopolitan than one might imagine. Even in the tiny ‘inland towns’, traders came, themselves having traveled to --and made themselves understood–in many different languages.

If you lived in say England, you were very likely to have frequent contact with the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish, not to mention the French. So ‘Piers Plowman’ (in addition to having just recently achieved "English’ as a language, since from the Conquest of 1066 the ‘ruling class’ SPOKE FRENCH and the ‘ruled’ polyglots of "Saxon’, Cornish, Breton, Welsh, Gaelic, not to mention quite distinct ‘dialects’) might not have been able to READ ‘English’ or other languages but he could ‘get by’ with probably at LEAST 3-4 other languages in which he would be ‘conversantly fluent’ --enough to make himself understood and to understand others.

Same for Jacques the vintner over in Burgandy, or Pietro the miller in Italy, or Hans and Fritz over in Hamburg in the Hanseatic League. . .

And ALL of them would have enough Latin to say their Pater Noster, their Aves, to make the Mass responses, and to be familiar with terms that still exist today such as carpe diem, habeus corpus, etc.

It is only a certain segment of modern Americans who seem to be strangely ‘stuck’ on the idea that Americans (or indeed any modern people) can ONLY UNDERSTAND ONE LANGUAGE and should never, repeat NEVER, have to be ‘exposed’ to any other.

Latin, of course, in their mind is ‘dead’ and of no use.

But gee, unless you live in some area (Texas, Arizona, CA for example) where there are a lot of people speaking a different language (Spanish), or Vermont’s north (near those ‘French speaking’ Canadians), the idea seems to be that you should ONLY be speaking good old Amurrican English at Mass. (Heaven knows that’s probably why so few people have ever HEARD the Greek Kyrie, since many priests omit it in favor of options B or C --you were sent to heal the contrite Lord have mercy). But the documents of VATICAN 2 SPECIFICALLY STATED that the Mass was NEVER supposed to be made ‘all vernacular’.

The Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei were all supposed to be in Latin and (Deo gratias) in most places the priests are returning to what was SPECIFICALLY MANDATED in Vatican 2). . .Latin in the appropriate places in our OF. . .

Personally, I believe that every student should have at least 2 years of Latin in high school, and 2 in college if they attend college–and that every student should also have at least 2 years of any other ‘foreign language’ likewise in high school and in college. Learning another language not only gives you an appreciation for all languages (and the people who speak them), it also helps you to be a better speaker (writer/reader) of your OWN language.
 
No, I didn’t say that. In fact, the opposite, because I happen to understand Polish and English, but that’s beside the real point. I’ve been taught that belief is the basis of Catholicism, not understanding. As an example, *consubstantialem Patri *either is truth or it isn’t. I don’t and will never understand it but I know it to be the truth. I can’t say the same for any translation of it.
You can’t say that ‘consubstantial with the Father’ is truth? That is pretty much the craziest thing I have ever heard.

Bearing in mind that one and the same infallible authority that taught (and still teaches) consubstantialem Patri also teaches consubstantial with the Father, what you are saying means no less than that the Hoiy Spirit somehow can only communicate in one language. Which is why it is pretty much the craziest etc etc.
 
Why can’t you take your Missal with the Latin on one side and the language of your choice on the other?

That’s what my parents and grandparents did, and that’s why to this day I have a French/Latin missal and an English/Latin missal.

The missals are quite small, smaller than the ‘missalettes’ in most U.S. churches.
The Missals do not have Google Translate, like Pro Vobis suggested 😃
 
Or maybe Cardinal Martini (God rest his soul) was the one who was 200 years behind-caught up in the then-‘new’ theory that somehow God’s truths needed to ‘change with the times’. . .
This is for another thread. Should we start one? I think this is interesting talk. The little I have read of his interview, I agree with.
 
Getting back to the main article. I get that it is kind of a regurgitation of “be part of the solution” But garments are the last of the problems where I am. We absolutely can not have it.
 
We have been leaking Catholics to a local evangelical seim-mega-church that excels at welcoming, evangelization, and ministering to people. Most of the fence-jumpers are middle-aged couples and divorced people. The language and tone of the Mass has nothing to do with this. We already have 2 “contemporary” Masses and 3 “traditional” Masses for different tastes.

The reason they are leaving the Church is due to pastoral and doctrinal issues. .
The people who left my Parish didn’t leak away. They left within the month after the new Pastor arrived and announced his agenda. This isn’t doctrinal, they didn’t like what he said. Or the way he said it, come to that. They left because they don’t want the EF. It’s a small town, I know where the others went because I see them at Mass. Once the EF starts, it will be interesting to see how many come on purpose because they do want the EF.
 
The people who left my Parish didn’t leak away. They left within the month after the new Pastor arrived and announced his agenda. This isn’t doctrinal, they didn’t like what he said. Or the way he said it, come to that. They left because they don’t want the EF. It’s a small town, I know where the others went because I see them at Mass. Once the EF starts, it will be interesting to see how many come on purpose because they do want the EF.
Reminds me of my last RC parish. When the last pastor left, there was quite an exchange of people in the parish. Many left because of that pastor (he was a great teacher and by-the-book, but his attitude could be abbrasive sometimes). Then when he left, the new pastor was more of a people person, so many came back and many signed on as new parishioners. But he wasn’t as by-the-book, he isn’t a great teacher (the last pastor I look forward to Mass each week just to listen to his homily. The new one makes me wonder why I am in church that Sunday morning). So yeah, who the priest is has a lot of effect on the parishioners. The shuffling of people because of the priest is so profound that not many even asked which parish we went off to. Most would assume that one of the other 2 nearby RC parishes. It is quite common for the people in my area to move between the 3 parishes.
 
The people who left my Parish didn’t leak away. They left within the month after the new Pastor arrived and announced his agenda. This isn’t doctrinal, they didn’t like what he said. Or the way he said it, come to that. They left because they don’t want the EF. It’s a small town, I know where the others went because I see them at Mass. Once the EF starts, it will be interesting to see how many come on purpose because they do want the EF.
Does it matter? The EF is approved by the Church and a pastor who wants to offer this Mass isn’t doing anything wrong. If there are three parishes so close, it won’t hurt anyone if one of the three becomes the EF one, even if it’s the smallest.

At my parish, over half the people left when a new pastor came. The reason? He wanted to have regular Confession times and had the audacity to make sure they were announced at Mass. Guess what? That’s approved by the Church too. Eventually word got around and people who wanted a parish with Confession and didn’t mind hearing about it at Mass drifted over.
 
Back to the point, the overriding reason people leave in my eperience is an intolerance for doctrine or a feeling of being unwelcome.
You’re painting with broad strokes but I do notice some do find themselves more welcome in Polish or Spanish communities.
Latin will not help them understand Catholicism better or draw them back. Quite the contrary.
Probably not in the forseeable future. But Latin has made comebacks before. Look at England which was overtaken by barbarians in the 6th century only to be reinfluenced by Latin (and French) in the 11th century.
We (all of us) have to work on the substance of faith.
Good luck with that when everyone’s speaking a different language.
 
The Missals do not have Google Translate, like Pro Vobis suggested 😃
Actually I mentioned this in jest, as most Latin-English Google translations are very gobbly goop and mostly senseless, unless Google finds any previous translation for the text entered, in which case they are subjective. But they’re objective otherwise. 🙂
 
I don’t understand why anyone would want it- unless you’re fluent in Latin.
I would like the Latin Mass persevered because its the historical mass of the western church. The mass was said for 1700 years by our Catholic ancestors.
Everywhere in the world.
Its also the mass of my childhood.
It should be sung at least once a month to proclaim our communion with our ancestors.

Destroying the Latin Mass is akin to bookburning
 
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