The Legitimacy of Today's Annulments.

[Michael_Saint]

Also from that article. I think Msgr. Doheny is driving at the same point I was getting at. I will let him speak, because he does a better job:

Monsignor Doheny stated in his Rota sentence of November 12, 1940, “In our times, since the knowledge of the existence of matrimonial causes is more and more publicized, people who have entered an unhappy marriage easily imagine some ground of nullity in order to reclaim their freedom and since later they facilely compose arguments from futile recollections with the cooperation of witnesses who, for some advantage or out of a sense of compassion, together with the parties, are in no way adverse to perverting the faith of truth and oath, the judge must proceed cautiously in these cases.”

Monsignor Wynen wrote in his sentence of November 23, 1940, “The unhappy outcome of a marriage, especially if a definitive separation of the spouses follows without hope of a reconciliation, quite often induces the spouses to start investigations as to whether perhaps the marriage entered by them might be invalid in the eyes of the Church so that they might be able to regain their freedom. Then, if they do not discover some ground of nullity manifestly existing in the nature of things, they usually turn their attention to the partner’s faults and with the help of some advocate they try to construe from them some defect of matrimonial consent which would make the marriage invalid.”

 

[Michael_Saint]

You know nothing about domestic violence. The advocate who helped me with my restraining order looked at the information on what my husband had done to me and told me that if my husband came to me on his knees and vowed that he had changed, that I must never, ever take him back. This advocate was an usher at my parish. Abusers will do everything in their power to not lose control over their victim, they will go to no ends to show that they have changed, that they have seen the light. The truth is, when that victim trusts and puts herself back into the situation, those established patterns are just too strong, and she will find herself in a place that is even more dangerous, even more hopeless. The Church has learned a lot about the rehabilitation potential of abusers. It is not something that can or should be counted on.

My ex-husband still claims to love me. He has no idea what love is. Love is sacrificial. It is other centered. It is Christ dying on the cross for us. Certainly, I could have stayed in my marriage. I could have been a martyr. I endured it for 17 years, until I finally realized that if my job was to get this man to heaven, allowing him to treat me like this with no consequence was never going to bring that about. Walking on eggshells, catering to his every whim was not only no way for me to live, no example of what a marriage should be for my children, it was also spiritually harmful for him. The kindest thing I ever did for him was to leave him. I am hoping that an affirmative decision in my petition for a declaration of nullity will give him another hard dose of reality that what we had was not a marriage.

I don’t want this cycle of abuse passed down to my children either. I want them to know that what their father and I had was not a marriage. I want them to want better. I want them to understand what true love and true sacrifice are really all about.

I am glad that I became a Catholic. I wish that I had been one as a child. I do think that I might have been prevented from making the mistakes that I did. I feel very confident though in my decision to leave. I had talked to my priest about what I was facing in my marriage, and was not only told to leave, but given a deadline for doing so. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, but I know unquestionably that it was the right thing. I attended a class on the annulment process last Spring, and the priest who gave the class quoted the head of the Rota when speaking about physical and emtional abuse, saying that he was very firm in saying that no person should ever have to live in hell, just to go to hell. There is so much truth to this, because that is what happens when you are abused, your soul is attacked. This is why so many stay in these marriages, because they are already spiritually dead.

I poured over the Mary’s advocate website while I was completing my petition for nullity. I wanted to be certain that I was doing the right thing. I suppose to those on this thread who think that they know better than the Church about whether or not petitioners should be granted a declaration of nullity will discount what I have to say since I am someone going through the process. I honestly can’t see why they believe to have more knowledge than those who serve on a tribunal or those who have gone through the process themselves.

And the Church might make a fallible dclaration, but their authority to do so was given to them by Christ. Their decisions, perfect or imperfect, are binding.

I agree, in your case, probably separation would probably have to be for life.

This is the unfortunate consequences of marrying for all the wrong reasons and ignoring the red flags when they manifest themselves when we are still dating.

But it does not matter how abusive he was, that does not make for an “invalid” marriage.

 

[dulcissima]

I discussed the above article with my priest who is a canon lawyer and is on a tribunal for a diocese other than the one that is reviewing my petition for nullity. I was concerned because out of the 45 pages I had written about my courtship and marriage, the tribunal had decided to go with “defect of discretion of judgment and/or incapacity to assume and fulfill the essential obligations of marriage due to causes of a psychic nature.” I felt that there were much stronger grounds, and was questioning whether or not these were even legitimate grounds. My priest assured me that Rome does see these as legitimate grounds, that their concern is that tribunals are overusing these grounds and would prefer to see them select other grounds. I know with most people that I have talked to who have gone through the process, there are numerous potential grounds. I was told in my case that these were the grounds that had the most evidence in my case. I had letters signed, dated, and postmarked that would support these grounds. Although I felt like there were other stronger grounds, those grounds are less provable to have existed outside of my own testimony.

 

[rpp]

I agree, in your case, probably separation would probably have to be for life.

This is the unfortunate consequences of marrying for all the wrong reasons and ignoring the red flags when they manifest themselves when we are still dating.

But it does not matter how abusive he was, that does not make for an “invalid” marriage.

With that, I must strongly disagree. How can an abusive person be considered mentally fit and able to properly consent to a sacramental marriage? Can’t psychiatric disorders be just as invalidating as say, permanent impotence? Clearly, someone who is seriously abusive may have some significant emotional or mental disturbances. To claim a mentally ill person can consent to a sacrament is really stretching it.

While I realize marriage is a sacrament, I do not see compassion in your responses. I appears you are taking **your perception **of a broad pattern and applying it too narrowly. All marriages must be judged individually. You do not appear to be doing that. Unless you know something the rest of us do not, implying that dulcissima’s annulment is invalid is a very serious matter. Furthermore, I am rather surprised with your further implication that that the domestic abuse she suffered was actually her fault; you appear to be blaming the victim of domestic violence.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

To claim a mentally ill person can consent to a sacrament is really stretching it.

Mentally ill people can receive the other sacraments.

 

[dulcissima]

I agree, in your case, probably separation would probably have to be for life.

This is the unfortunate consequences of marrying for all the wrong reasons and ignoring the red flags when they manifest themselves when we are still dating.

But it does not matter how abusive he was, that does not make for an “invalid” marriage.

Yes, I did marry for the wrong reasons, out of a sense of obligation and feeling I had no choice, and I did ignore numerous red flags.

The abuse itself does not make the marriage invalid, but it is a symptom of other problems that I believe do make it invalid. Knowing what I know about domestic violence now, I would say that in most instances, these types of marriages likely are invalid.

Did you know that one of the most dangerous times for a woman in an abusive marriage is when she is pregnant? It has surprised me to learn just how many characteristics abusers have in common with one another. One of those common characteristics is not being open to having children, seeing those children as a threat to their desire to be completely in control of their wives hearts, minds, and bodies. This lack of proper intention does make for an invalid marriage.

 

[rpp]

Mentally ill people can receive the other sacraments.

But not necessarily all. It depends on the nature and degree of their impairment.

 

[Phemie]

Not true. The Church recognizes only “separation”, not “divorce”, in dire circumstances, and ONLY until the spouse reforms.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

 

[dulcissima]

Mentally ill people can receive the other sacraments.

A woman in my Bible study class was not permitted to become a nun because she lacked the proper intelligence. Mental illness can be an impediment to receiving holy orders. Just like a vocation to the priesthood is not for everyone, marraige is not for everyone.

People who are unwilling to address their serious issues in therapy or who have a psychiatric condition that they choose to not treat are not able to make the the very serious commitment that is needed for marriage.

 

[JRKH]

Good afternoon one and all,

First of all, I’m currently enrolled in RCIA and going through an annulment. Since I have remarried, I must get an annulment from my first marriage so that I can get baptized into the Catholic faith and have my second marriage blessed in the Catholic Church. It is not easy. I live in Florida and I had to write and get all my info mailed back from Waukegan, Il. (marriage license and divorce decree). I had to answer 59 questions about myself and my married life. This was all mailed to the local diocese in St. Petersburg. About 3 weeks later they informed me that I needed at least 4 charactor witnesses.(didn’t have witnesses to the marriage that happened 22 years). So I sent the diocese 4 addresses (4 different states)and they wrote to my witnesses. The witnesses wrote back to the diocese. Then I received a Decree Joining The Issue. Now everything is sent to the Arch Diocese in Miami, Florida. All I have to do is wait for the final decree. This has taken about 4 months. I hope everything will be in order by Holy Saturday, so that I can get baptized. I pray that it will. I have faith and it’s out of my hands and into God’s hands.
This is my second time going through RCIA. Last year I dropped out because of the annulment issue. I was angry and didn’t understand why I needed an annulment and I thought the questions were too personal. It took me a year to realize that the annulment process is a healing time and I’m glad that I can now look back and feel no anger or resentment against my former spouse.

Paula

May God bless you on our Journey
James

 

[JRKH]

I find it ironic how all the defenders of today’s annulment practices and tribunals that have posted on this thread are all either divorcees who have “remarried” or actual tribunal officers themselves.

I cannot say I noticed. And what pray-tell would that have to do with anything except that we, as veterens of the process, have something positive and factual to offer to the discussion.

James

 

[drafdog]

Anyone interested in matrimony who is concerned that the marriage may fall apart at some time in future (and who of us hasn’t had doubts?) and wants to provide recourse to annulment may decide to employ the Italian solution.
The bride or groom writes a letter to the godparents prior to the wedding which letter contains allegations of coercion on the part of family (one’s own or that of the other party), fear, etc. The godparent files the letter unopened until the person decides that a divorce is desired and wants to procure an annulment. At that time the letter is produced (still unopened so that the post mark is verification of the date of the letter) and sent along to the tribunal. A properly written letter will guarantee a quick annulment.
Cynical in the extreme, but I’m told that Italian girls have been using this technique for centuries to protect themselves from abusive marriages when the Church rather than the government controlled how marriages were terminated.

Matthew

 

[dulcissima]

Anyone interested in matrimony who is concerned that the marriage may fall apart at some time in future (and who of us hasn’t had doubts?) and wants to provide recourse to annulment may decide to employ the Italian solution.
The bride or groom writes a letter to the godparents prior to the wedding which letter contains allegations of coercion on the part of family (one’s own or that of the other party), fear, etc. The godparent files the letter unopened until the person decides that a divorce is desired and wants to procure an annulment. At that time the letter is produced (still unopened so that the post mark is verification of the date of the letter) and sent along to the tribunal. A properly written letter will guarantee a quick annulment.
Cynical in the extreme, but I’m told that Italian girls have been using this technique for centuries to protect themselves from abusive marriages when the Church rather than the government controlled how marriages were terminated.

Matthew

That would clearly show that they never had the intention of entering into a permanent marriage, and such an intention would mean that they would be preventing themselves from receiving the graces of a valid and sacramental marriage.

 

[rpp]

Anyone interested in matrimony who is concerned that the marriage may fall apart at some time in future (and who of us hasn’t had doubts?) and wants to provide recourse to annulment may decide to employ the Italian solution.
The bride or groom writes a letter to the godparents prior to the wedding which letter contains allegations of coercion on the part of family (one’s own or that of the other party), fear, etc. The godparent files the letter unopened until the person decides that a divorce is desired and wants to procure an annulment. At that time the letter is produced (still unopened so that the post mark is verification of the date of the letter) and sent along to the tribunal. A properly written letter will guarantee a quick annulment.
Cynical in the extreme, but I’m told that Italian girls have been using this technique for centuries to protect themselves from abusive marriages when the Church rather than the government controlled how marriages were terminated.

Matthew

Such an action, in an of itself, would invalidate the marriage. One cannot make prenuptial divorce arrangements and still have a valid sacramental marriage. Sort of like hiding a serious sin when you go to confession.

 

[Daddums]

Unfortunately, that may not be possible without a divorce and the Church recognizes that. It doesn’t mean you’re free to go on with your life as though you weren’t married but it’s probably the only way to have safety, & financial support (imposed by the court).

Agreed.

Daddums

 

[JRKH]

Well I am pretty much done.
What this thread boils down to is this,
One side with persons who basically don’t accept the validity of annullments and would allow very few if any.
Then there is the other side with persons who accept the validity of annullments and the Church’s perogative to grant them.
There appears little effort to really discuss the matter to try to achieve any kind of consensus.

Bottom Line
The Church contains an annullment process. If there are problems with the process, if the rules are too lax, or being interpreted too loosely, it is up to the Church to make the corrections.
In the meantime, those persons who file for annullments and receive them have received valid annullments – Period.
If you believe that the system is broken then you have the option of not applying for an annullment should you find yourself in a situation where you could.

You may agree or disagree but that is the Church’s position as of 12/28/2007.

Pax
James

 

[bobzills]

The annulment scandal has turned Catholic marriage into a joke.

I am sorry to hear that this has happened. It seems like the Church officials may have changed their minds on this.

 

[bobzills]

Bottom Line
The Church contains an annullment process. If there are problems with the process, if the rules are too lax, or being interpreted too loosely, it is up to the Church to make the corrections.

The Pope has already criticised the broadening of the requirements for capacity or psychological maturity as conflicting with the teaching of the Church on the indissolubility of marriage. But where is the indication that the marriage tribunals have responded to his criticism?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I am sorry to hear that this has happened. It seems like the Church officials may have changed their minds on this.

It’s disappointing. In theory, no one is actually married, they’re all invalid marriages… it just hasn’t been proven yet for the ones that are still together

It’s quite an embarassment.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I cannot say I noticed. And what pray-tell would that have to do with anything except that we, as veterens of the process, have something positive and factual to offer to the discussion.

James

Well, I’ll tell you, if a tribunal gave me a second shot at happiness with another woman after I goofed up the first time around, I wouldn’t care less how they went about doing it or how “on the level” they were - I’d be singing their praises 'till the cows came home.

And, I must say, I would defend them to my death, because if the posters on the other side of the argument were right, I would be in a real predicament.