The life of the animals

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Rainaldo said:
If we owed justice to animals, then that would be a perversion of the natural order, something St Paul talked about as being a consequence of denying God.

Besides, if we owe justice to animals, then animals owe justice to us. But that is so absurd I’m not even going to refute it, just offer this famous video: youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4&t=23
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Perhaps if you tried to understand what I wrote? If we show compassion to anyone or anything for example, we do it because it is the right thing not because we expect or want something. You used the word 'justice". I do not think animals want to be human, but they want to be free from pain and fear and have the rights God gave them, to move freely, lie down, etc.
 
We have to be good stewards and we owe animals humane treatment where that does not impinge on our moral obligations towards humans.

St Francis loved animals too and all of us should love them too, provided we keep that love in the proper context. Animals are a part of the goodness of God’s creation and a reflection of the goodness of God himself, and where we display unnecessary cruelty towards them, we insult God, who has entrusted them to our care.
 
severus68 said:
I do not think animals want to be human, but they want to be free from pain and fear and have the rights God gave them, to move freely, lie down, etc.
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I have no problem violating the will or the desires of an animal. Last I heard, creatures exist for our sake. This concept of animal “rights” is a new one to me. Where do their rights come from anyway?

Do police dogs move freely and lie down when they want, or do they obey?
 
Rainaldo said:
I have no problem violating the will or the desires of an animal. Last I heard, creatures exist for our sake. This concept of animal “rights” is a new one to me. Where do their rights come from anyway?

Do police dogs move freely and lie down when they want, or do they obey?
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No animals exist because God made them and they exist for the glory of God and they do glorify God. They are not here for us to abuse, we are to be good stewards. Their rights come from God.

Actually dogs enjoy working with their owners/handlers. Dogs love to learn and have the intelligence of a 3-4 year old child on average. Some are smarter. Do 3-4 year old children do things on their own?
 
Rainaldo said:
I have no problem violating the will or the desires of an animal. Last I heard, creatures exist for our sake. This concept of animal “rights” is a new one to me. Where do their rights come from anyway?

Do police dogs move freely and lie down when they want, or do they obey?
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There rights come from life itself life is a gift be it human or not.
If you hurt an animal it bleeds it has a soul and it can feel pain.
This is why when people see an animal sufering they might put it down in a kind way.
 
I don’t know whether animals have any legitimate rights, but we as humans certainly have a duty towards them, even if they have no rights. And we gravely offend God when we do not fulfil our duty of care to His creatures.
 
King_Lazy said:
I don’t know whether animals have any legitimate rights, but we as humans certainly have a duty towards them, even if they have no rights. And we gravely offend God when we do not fulfil our duty of care to His creatures.
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Agreed
 
King_Lazy said:
I don’t know whether animals have any legitimate rights, but we as humans certainly have a duty towards them, even if they have no rights. And we gravely offend God when we do not fulfil our duty of care to His creatures.
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Yes we do.
 
SilverLight said:
There rights come from life itself life is a gift be it human or not.
If you hurt an animal it bleeds it has a soul and it can feel pain.
This is why when people see an animal sufering they might put it down in a kind way.
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Just have to jump in and say animals do not have souls only humans do.🙂
 
Kirk_O said:
Just have to jump in and say animals do not have souls only humans do.🙂
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Well, the term soul can simply mean “animated” or “alive”, so in that sense animals have souls. What they don’t have is immortal souls. If they did, they too would have been created in the image and likeness of God and would have been tested (as men and angels were) to see if they would be obedient to God. This is why only immortal beings, such as men and angels are answerable for their behavior and beliefs, not animals. Immortal is not to be confused with eternal. God is eternal, but created men and angels to be immortal.
 
Della said:
Well, the term soul can simply mean “animated” or “alive”, so in that sense animals have souls. What they don’t have is immortal souls. If they did, they too would have been created in the image and likeness of God and would have been tested (as men and angels were) to see if they would be obedient to God. This is why only immortal beings, such as men and angels are answerable for their behavior and beliefs, not animals. Immortal is not to be confused with eternal. God is eternal, but created men and angels to be immortal.
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yes in ranking of sorts we are higher then they are but they also as living things deserve to be treated right.
 
SilverLight said:
yes in ranking of sorts we are higher then they are but they also as living things deserve to be treated right.
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Yes, definitely. I am owned by 3 cats, 1 half moon betta, 3 zebra tetras and one algae eater and I have to confess the cats get the preferential treatment. LOL! Of course, my dh gets top priority and if we had children they’d come before the cats and the fish. 😉
 
Della said:
Yes, definitely. I am owned by 3 cats, 1 half moon betta, 3 zebra tetras and one algae eater and I have to confess the cats get the preferential treatment. LOL! Of course, my dh gets top priority and if we had children they’d come before the cats and the fish. 😉
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yeah I have a dog so lol
 
Della said:
Well, the term soul can simply mean “animated” or “alive”, so in that sense animals have souls. What they don’t have is immortal souls. If they did, they too would have been created in the image and likeness of God and would have been tested (as men and angels were) to see if they would be obedient to God. This is why only immortal beings, such as men and angels are answerable for their behavior and beliefs, not animals. Immortal is not to be confused with eternal. God is eternal, but created men and angels to be immortal.
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Aquinas did say they have mortal souls. However, I choose to let God tell us what he wants for his animals and what they were created for. You are right that animals cannot sin, they have no free will.
 
severus68 said:
Aquinas did say they have mortal souls. However, I choose to let God tell us what he wants for his animals and what they were created for. You are right that animals cannot sin, they have no free will.
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And Aquinas may have been right about that–or not (as a theologian he didn’t speak for the Church, but he was a very wise, holy, and learned man well worth listening to), and that’s just fine because, as you say, God has his plans for all his creation and loves it, so it’s all good. 🙂

We’ve had and lost 7 kitties (since I got married and others when I was a child) and we felt the loss of each of them quite keenly. I have to believe that God understands how we feel about our furry friends and doesn’t simply discount their loyality and love. He is just and fair, so I have left their lives/fate in his hands and been content to remember the good things they brought into our lives by being a part of our family.
 
From EWTN

Pets in Heaven?

A question that comes up frequently is whether people will see their pets in heaven. Now the Catechism of the Catholic Church does not directly address this question. But it does hold principles which lead us in the direction of an answer.

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal. A thing which has no physical parts cannot fall apart or be poisoned or be crushed or be put out of existence. For this reason the souls of the saved will always be aware of themselves as enjoying the vision of God for all eternity. This enjoyment will be the result of having chosen to act on earth in such a way that one did the will of God rather than one’s own will. And the souls of the damned will be aware of themselves as never attaining this vision of God because they have shown by their lives on earth that they did not wish this vision but instead preferred their own will.

In the light of this essential difference between human beings and animals, it would seem that we would not see the souls of our pets in heaven for the simple reason that they do not have immortal souls and are not responsible for their actions. They do not have the intelligence which allows them to choose either God’s will or their own will. There is, then, an incomparable distance, say, between the soul of the sorriest human being who ever lived and the most noble brute animal that ever walked the earth.

Now a child might be heartbroken at the thought that he will never see his pet again. He cannot yet understand this explanation about the difference between the human and the animal soul. I suppose that one could tell the child that when he hopefully gets to heaven, he could ask God to see his old pets if he still wished to. There would be no harm in that. For we know that when a person finally sees God, he will not be concerned with seeing old pets or favorite places but rather will be captured in the complete fulfillment of the joy of which old pets and favorite places are but little signs. We adults know that, even if the child does not.

For more information on how the Church sees animals in the lives of human beings, check the Catechism of the Catholic Church 2415-2418. You will learn, for example, that the Church, while it condemns cruelty to animals as an offense against the dignity of man, allow experiments on animals if done in a reasonable way. Again, you will learn of the tremendous difference that the Church sees between the lowliest of human beings and the most noble of the animals. It will allow animals to be used for food or clothing, but will defend the right of an innocent human being to live against Kings and Nations. The Church will demand that animals be respected as part of creation while at the same time insisting that the dignity owed a human being should never be given to an animal.
Answered by Dr. Richard Geraghty, PhD
 
Della said:
And Aquinas may have been right about that–or not (as a theologian he didn’t speak for the Church, but he was a very wise, holy, and learned man well worth listening to), and that’s just fine because, as you say, God has his plans for all his creation and loves it, so it’s all good. 🙂

We’ve had and lost 7 kitties (since I got married and others when I was a child) and we felt the loss of each of them quite keenly. I have to believe that God understands how we feel about our furry friends and doesn’t simply discount their loyality and love. He is just and fair, so I have left their lives/fate in his hands and been content to remember the good things they brought into our lives by being a part of our family.
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Yes, I do understand as I feel the same when one of my animals dies. My trust is in God on this.
 
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