The limits of corporal punishment?

[HomeschoolDad]

First of all, let me make it clear that I do not, and never have, practiced corporal punishment in the raising of my son, who is now 12. I simply could not do that to a child of mine. Strong verbal reprimands, yes, but nothing physical.

What are we to make, though, of parents who exercise extreme corporal discipline? I am not referring to a swat on the seat, nor to a light thrashing with a switch. I refer more to painful, degrading, possibly injurious methods. I have known of two Catholic fathers, well-regarded in their parishes, who did this to their sons. Both of them made their sons lie down on a bed and would then beat them across the back with a belt. One of these cases was over 40 years ago and involved a friend of mine from high school. He confided in my family that this was happening. Another case was more recent, a friend of my son, and I had half a mind to call social services, but for many reasons this would have caused more harm than good. From oblique comments, it seemed that the teacher was aware something was going on at home (and we live in a mandated reporting state for teachers where child abuse is suspected), and I had ample reason to think that my reporting this would not have been believed — I could not prove it — and in fact would have backfired into grave harm to my own family.

Is this level of corporal punishment sanctioned anywhere in the practice of the Catholic Church, even making deference to different social conditions and mentalities?

 

[TheLittleLady]

As a mandated reporter, I would make a call if I became aware of either of these situations. Abuse is abuse, even if it is done by a parent

well-regarded in their parishes

 

[F_Marturana]

What you described is abuse.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Just to be clear, I was not the teacher. She made a comment to me that indicated she knew something was wrong.

 

[Viki63]

Does the boy have bruises on his back? Maybe talk to the teacher and ask if she’s questioned the boy. Adults should not pussy-foot around such abuse.

 

[heidi_storage]

OP, it’s true that CPS is often inadequate, but if ever you see any more evidence of the kind of abuse you’re describing I urge you to call. Children should not be beaten to the point of harm.

Aside from the particular situation you describe, anyone who asks what the limits are to corporal punishment probably shouldn’t use it; if it isn’t effective at very, very light measures, it’s probably not a good tool for your family. (OP, I’m not referring to you here.)

 

[1ke]

Is this level of corporal punishment sanctioned anywhere in the practice of the Catholic Church, even making deference to different social conditions and mentalities?

I’m not sure why you think it would be.

No, of course it isn’t sanctioned by the Church.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Is this level of corporal punishment sanctioned anywhere in the practice of the Catholic Church, even making deference to different social conditions and mentalities?

Because people, such as the two men to whom I refer, appear to be otherwise devout and faithful Catholics, and I wondered if they knew something I didn’t. “Old-school”, authoritarian parental discipline is favored by many, indeed, I’ve observed that many Christian parents seek to discipline or chastise their children in ways that aren’t really abusive, but harsh nonetheless — making the errant child scrub the floor with a toothbrush, being refused food until they will eat the dish that is offered to them, placing a drop of hot sauce on their tongue, and so on. And then there is the “blanket training” practiced by some fundamentalist families.

Blanket training - Wikipedia

OP, it’s true that CPS is often inadequate, but if ever you see any more evidence of the kind of abuse you’re describing I urge you to call. Children should not be beaten to the point of harm.

The latter incident was some time ago (a year or two), and while I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics of why this would have been, any reporting by me would have had catastrophic consequences for my family, would not have been believed, and would have done no good. I can only hope that someone else reported it, or at the very least, that the abusive behavior stopped.

 

[1ke]

Because people, such as the two men to whom I refer, appear to be otherwise devout and faithful Catholics, and I wondered if they knew something I didn’t.

Appear to be.

“Old-school”, authoritarian parental discipline is favored by many, indeed, I’ve observed that many Christian parents seek to discipline or chastise their children in ways that aren’t really abusive, but harsh nonetheless — making the errant child scrub the floor with a toothbrush, being refused food until they will eat the dish that is offered to them, placing a drop of hot sauce on their tongue, and so on.

I would disagree on the abusive nature of some of these tactics. Also, these tactics are not limited to “Christian” parents.

And then there is the “blanket training” practiced by some fundamentalist families.

Which isn’t a Catholic thing at all.

any reporting by me would have had catastrophic consequences for my family, would not have been believed, and would have done no good.

Well, you don’t actually know this, as you chose a different path. If it bothers you, maybe reach out to the young man and check on him.

 

[1ke]

I can only hope that someone else reported it, or at the very least, that the abusive behavior stopped.

Or, you could follow up to be sure.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

any reporting by me would have had catastrophic consequences for my family, would not have been believed, and would have done no good.

I do know this, and again, for reasons I can’t go into, follow-up is not possible. And yes, abuse of a child always bothers me.

“Old-school”, authoritarian parental discipline is favored by many, indeed, I’ve observed that many Christian parents seek to discipline or chastise their children in ways that aren’t really abusive, but harsh nonetheless — making the errant child scrub the floor with a toothbrush, being refused food until they will eat the dish that is offered to them, placing a drop of hot sauce on their tongue, and so on.

I don’t like them, I think they are crude and coarse, but they do not cause any real harm or injury. And it seems that many “Christian” parents, both Catholic and others, seek out ways to discipline their children corporally that do not rise to the level of spanking or abuse, possibly to avoid “sparing the rod and spoiling the child”. I once read, and this makes perfect sense, that a shepherd’s rod is used to guide the sheep gently, not to beat them into submission.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Many localities accept and follow up on anonymous reporting. I suggest looking into that as an option.

 

[GiftofMercy]

parents seek to discipline or chastise their children in ways that aren’t really abusive, but harsh nonetheless — making the errant child scrub the floor with a toothbrush, being refused food until they will eat the dish that is offered to them, placing a drop of hot sauce on their tongue, and so on. And then there is the “blanket training” practiced by some fundamentalist families.

These are abusive practises.

dogs are taught ‘blanket training’ , to stay on a mat. Children are not dogs

 

[TheLittleLady]

Every locality in the US has anonymous reporting.

I could not sleep if I had not reported even a strong suspicion of abuse. I pray some mandated reporter stepped in for this child.

And it seems that many “Christian” parents, both Catholic and others, seek out ways to discipline their children corporally that do not rise to the level of spanking or abuse, possibly to avoid “sparing the rod and spoiling the child”.

Christians are not immune from sinful behavour.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

And then there is the “blanket training” practiced by some fundamentalist families.

This is 100% percent abuse. Of a baby, no less. I have heard of this, too, and it makes me furious. If I knew anyone who did this, I would report them.

 

[Legend]

Hitting a Child repeatedly in the back is abuse! It should be reported! Many people can put on a good, pious front. Just because something I’d ‘old-fashioned’ does not mean its good.

Most such things have been largely discontinued for this reason. Try and see that the teacher does her part. And do your part.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have known of two Catholic fathers, well-regarded in their parishes, who did this to their sons.

There are also Catholic fathers, well-regarded in their parishes, who have committed sexual abuse and other crimes.
The Church doesn’t condone such things.
More likely, because the person is “well regarded”, people are just in denial that the person is committing abuse or crimes, or hesitates to accuse them because they can’t prove it and the “well regarded” person has so many friends and good connections and it could go badly for the reporter. So the bad behavior just continues because nobody does anything.

It’s highly likely that parents who treat their children abusively are repeating whatever was done to them as children. 40 years ago, society was more likely to turn a blind eye to child abuse, especially if the parent doing it was otherwise “well regarded” in his or her community. Being well regarded in the community doesn’t mean that whatever church or organization the person belongs to approves of the abuse. It does mean that people in that church or organization might not know abuse is going on, or if confronted with it, might be in denial or otherwise fail to report or turn a blind eye to the problem.

Nowadays we have mandated reporting and anonymous reporting for abuse situations and we are supposed to report it if we encounter it, in order to try to stop the cycle of abuse. This applies regardless of whether we’re Catholic, or a member of another church, or atheists or whatever.

 

[Legend]

You said it so well! Yes, most Child abusers were abused, themselves, but that’s an explanation, not an excuse. If someone cares about such a person, the best thing they could due is encourage him/her to get help…and it doesn’t ‘help’ anyone to cover up such behavior!

 

[vern_humphrey]

When my oldest daughter was about 18 months old, she walked out into the street (we didn’t yet have a fence.) I brought her back in the yard, and she walked out again, and kept doing it. I finally cut a switch about a foot long and about as big around as a match stick, and switched her little calves.

It didn’t work, She just stood there and howled. That was the one and only time I used corporal punishment on my daughters.

Now, for ME, it was different. When I was a boy and I wanted to do something and you didn’t want me to do it, you better have a 2X4!

 

[QwertyGirl]

I finally cut a switch about a foot long and about as big around as a match stick, and switched her little calves

I realized you learned your lesson that this wasn’t appropriate, but I am trying to learn how people who take this kind of step think. What made you think that was an appropriate thing to do to an 18 month old baby (or anyone, for that matter)? Did it bother you that you were whipping your child? I mean, did it disturb you on an emotional or physical level?

You don’t have to answer of course. I am wondering where does this come from in people who do it?