The limits of proof

[tonyrey]

 *Wait a second! Sean just argued that though the eyes see that things move he was able to determine through logic that motion is actually impossible. Am I to think that the fatal flaw of physicalism is that it makes us think that motion is possible while our minds assure us that it is actually impossible? This seems like a clear case where the eyes should be relied upon whereas whatever premises resulted in such an absurd conclusion should be questioned.*

                              Leela, my remark applies **solely **to his final sentence:

Originally Posted by JesuisSean
Just because the eyes can not see what is truly going on, does not mean that the mind can not see the truth.
That sums up the fatal flaw of materialism/physicalism in a nutshell!

Can you explain why you think the conclusion is absurd?

 

[tonyrey]

                                                                  Originally Posted by **tonyrey**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5686019#post5686019)                 
             *That sums up the fatal flaw of materialism/physicalism in a nutshell! :thumbsup:*
                              Wait a second! Sean just argued that though the eyes see that things move he was able to determine through logic that motion is actually impossible. Am I to think that the fatal flaw of physicalism is that it makes us think that motion is possible while our minds assure us that it is actually impossible? This seems like a clear case where the eyes should be relied upon whereas whatever premises resulted in such an absurd conclusion should be questioned.

My remark was directed specified at his conclusion, not his argument:

                                                                   Originally Posted by **JesuisSean**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5685081#post5685081)                 
             *Just because the eyes can not see what is truly going on, does not mean that the mind can not see the truth.*

That sums up the fatal flaw of materialism/physicalism in a nutshell!

Do you believe the conclusion is always false? If so why?

 

[Thales]

I think that the descriptions of our epistemic situation suggest that we ought to give up on the notion of inquiry as the search for truth since there is no way to measure our progress relative to that goal without already knowing what the truth is. Instead, we can view inquiry as part of our own self-creation. We don’t have to spend any time wondering whether our current practices conform to some transcendent standard that stands outside of our historical context. We can instead concern ourselves with whether we can come up with interesting and better alternatives to our current beliefs–ones that lead to more successful action. Our progress can then be measured in terms of what we can do that we couldn’t do before, what we’ve created that never was before, and the expansion of our circles of moral concern.

Best,
Leela

I kind of figured you would say this when I mentioned the desire to find truth. Not that I mind or even disagree, but am always rather perplexed by some of your statements…in a good way of course

I don’t know exactly what you mean by self-creation, but I find that mankind is somehow hardwired to search for truth despite the fact we don’t know what it is. Maybe it doesn’t matter though. Maybe the point is that there is a path and we are to be on it traveling in a certain direction. We may not know where it leads but there are signs to let us know we are traveling in the right direction. There are forks in the road, some may lead to dead ends and others just another way to get to the same destination unknown. You, however, seem to want to get off the path and walk through the underbrush to see what might be there. Although noble, I think many have tried it. What we hoped would be “interesting and better alternatives” are failure, pain, and suffering.

“Our progress can then be measured in terms of what we can do that we couldn’t do before, what we’ve created that never was before, and the expansion of our circles of moral concern.”

This is both exciting and scary. I wonder and marvel at the things we could unleash into reality with our imagination, but they never seem to equal what we hoped they would. Everything we create on our own seems to fall short of fulfilling mankind’s insatiable desire. Only the metaphysical and transcendent can fulfill us and it screams and pulls at us from the unknown to find it. Your hope in finding another way is admirable, but misplaced. “There is no new thing under the sun” Ecclesiastes 1:9.