The little way for littleones (new group)help please

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Godlovestrength

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In our parish we have been blessed with now having two Carmilite priests they said that they would allow a 2nd or 3rd order but I don’t know exactly how to start it. Please any thoughts information or/and instructions.
Thank you.

Godbless
Godlovestrength
 
I’m not sure whether a 2nd order or 3rd order is right and Father told me to check out and pray so here I am asking for what ever help. All I know are the little ways of relying on divine providence, mercy, denial.
But in a group form ???
I know some of youare more able than I, please.

Thanks before hand
Godlovestrength
 
Hi there Godlovestrength…just in case you dont know, a 1st Order is usually priests, a 2nd Order is nuns/religious sisters and the 3rd. Order is lay people…all belonging to the same religious order, as in Carmelite Third Order which is laypeople in the Carmelite Order. Not too sure which Order brothers belong to - but I tend to think that it is the lst Order but totally unsure.

I am not too sure what you mean by a “group”. If you mean a group of some kind here amongst CAF membership, I don’t know either how you would go about it. Have you thought of asking a moderator?
Or perhaps Father meant a group of some kind in your parish?

God’s blessings…and good luck with God’s Blessings with what you would like to start in a group and I will pray too for your inspiration and guidance from The Holy Spirit…regards…Barb:)
 
There are two Orders in Carmel, the Ancient Order, O’Carm and the Reformed Order, Discalced, OCD. Find out which order these Carmelite Priests belong to and then you will need to write to the Provincial Father of that Order to obtain permission to set up a new Chapter of the Carmelite Order OCD or O’Carm in your area. That is if this is what you are seeking.

The first order is the Friars or Priests, the second is the Religious Sisters and Nuns and the third is the laity.

If you wish to set up a Third Order Secular which is for lay persons of either OCD or O’Carm you will have to do the same thing, contact the Provincial Father and ask for permission. What usually happens is that the Parish is allowed to form a ‘group’ and if the group endures and is growing in number, then the Provincial Father will allow a Chapter to be formed and will appoint a Priest to minister to the new TOSC or TOS O’Carm and also will appoint a Spiritual Director. A Council of members will be elected by the members, of which will be a Leader, a Treasurer etc.

I think what your Priests are suggesting is to see if you can form a group and see where that leads and hopefully a Secular Third Order can be formed.

I think you need to go back to your Priests and discuss it further so that you have all the facts of what they are hoping to do. They may well already have permission to set up a ‘group’ and have asked if you would participate in this, therefore if you feel drawn to do so, begin by making arrangements with the Priests to form a group and which day it will meet and how to advertise its existance. etc etc

I will keep this in my prayers

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
I forgot to say that the cloistered Religious Sisters are Second Order and the Active Religious Sisters are Third Order, then the laity are Third Order Secular. Sorry for that.🙂

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
Godlovestrength said:
In our parish we have been blessed with now having two Carmilite priests they said that they would allow a 2nd or 3rd order but I don’t know exactly how to start it. Please any thoughts information or/and instructions.
Thank you.

Godbless
Godlovestrength
Click to expand...
I’m a Isolated, 3rd order Discalced Carmelite referred as OCDS = Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. Isolated means I’m not longer a member of a group. My former group, aged out and shrunk so small, he had to disband.

Generally, under the OCDS Constitution, to start a new group, you need to have 10 professed members to start it and run it.
  1. Code: 
      For the establishment of a new community it is necessary to present to the General Secretary of the Secular Order the following documents:
Click to expand...
a) a list of the current members, at least 10 members are required to form a community, two of whom must have made definitive promises;
b) a letter from the Provincial Delegate requesting the establishment of the community;
c) the permission of the Ordinary of the Diocese in writing[41];
d) the title of the community;
e) the place of the community meeting
Click to expand...
Here’s a webisite with info;

ourgardenofcarmel.org/index.htm

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I’m a Isolated, 3rd order Discalced Carmelite referred as OCDS = Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. Isolated means I’m not longer a member of a group. My former group, aged out and shrunk so small, he had to disband.

Generally, under the OCDS Constitution, to start a new group, you need to have professed members to start it and run it.
I believe the Constitution says 12 professed members, but I don’t have it with me, so I’m not exactly sure on the number. However, I know of an OCDS group where on one member was professed.
Either way, you’ll have to get permission from the Provincial Director, in order to start a group.

Jim
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Hi Jim

This is correct to have a Chapter, but until this time a ‘group’ may operate and build until a Chapter can be formed. So the starting point with a view to a new Chapter is to form a group and commence formation of members who initially are enrolled in the Brown Scapular and then after two years are received and then after a further two years are professed. The duration and growth in number is what will determind whether a Chapter is formed or not. The initial starting point is to form a ‘group’ with a view to consolidating into a Chapter of the Third Order Secular.

The correct procedure for forming a group I have posted as above.

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
blessedstar

I just found the OCDS Constitution on the web
  1. Code: 
      For the establishment of a new community it is necessary to present to the General Secretary of the Secular Order the following documents:
Click to expand...
a) a list of the current members, at least 10 members are required to form a community, two of whom must have made definitive promises;
b) a letter from the Provincial Delegate requesting the establishment of the community;
c) the permission of the Ordinary of the Diocese in writing[41];
d) the title of the community;
e) the place of the community meeting
Click to expand...
ocdswashprov.org/legislation/OCDSCONSTITUTIONSFinal.htm
Click to expand...
Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
blessedstar

I just found the OCDS Constitution on the web

Jim
Click to expand...
Yes this is after a group has been established and has endured and grown to where a chapter can be formed. Initially to start a group the Priest or Religious Sister wishing to start a group with aview to developing into a Chapter has to seek permission from the Provincial Father, who if favourable will grant permission and the Bishop of the Diocese concerned will be consulted during the Provincial Father’s considerations. Once permission for a group is granted then all details are taken of new aspirants and until such a time as the group has grown and endured to warrant a new Chapter being formed.

I only know because of previous struggles to attempt to found a new Chapter.

The Original Poster’s Priests will know of the procedure and so its my feeling that they have been given initial permission to form a group and have asked the OP to help in the process with a view to later on form as a Chapter Third Order Secular Community.

It’s all very exciting, you have my prayers:D

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
blessedstar said:
Yes this is after a group has been established and has endured and grown to where a chapter can be formed. Initially to start a group the Priest or Religious Sister wishing to start a group with aview to developing into a Chapter has to seek permission from the Provincial Father, who if favourable will grant permission and the Bishop of the Diocese concerned will be consulted during the Provincial Father’s considerations. Once permission for a group is granted then all details are taken of new aspirants and until such a time as the group has grown and endured to warrant a new Chapter being formed.

I only know because of previous struggles to attempt to found a new Chapter.

In the Living Prayer of my life
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.

I’ve never started a group, but only know of one new one that started and a member of our group went there to help and eventually became a member, as our group died(literally) out.

Every now and then, I’ve thought that perhaps the Blessed Mother wanted me to start a new chapter in my area. My old group was 1.5 hrs away. Anyway, the inspiration never developed beyond a mere thought and my wife, who also an OCDS, had no desire to get involved forming a new group. I’d need her help.

In Carmel
Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Thanks for the info.

I’ve never started a group, but only know of one new one that started and a member of our group went there to help and eventually became a member, as our group died(literally) out.

Every now and then, I’ve thought that perhaps the Blessed Mother wanted me to start a new chapter in my area. My old group was 1.5 hrs away. Anyway, the inspiration never developed beyond a mere thought and my wife, who also an OCDS, had no desire to get involved forming a new group. I’d need her help.

In Carmel
Jim
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Oh Jim, you and your personality would be wonderful to form a new ‘group’ and lead it in your area with a view to becoming a Chapter. Please pray about it some more and seriously consider it again. Sound out your Parish Priest or a Priest you have a good relationship with. I am sure the help and the new members will come if its God will a community is formed in the Carmelite spirituality in your area.

Our group did not continue due to the Sister not being able to come a long distance and be Spiritual Director anymore. So it’s an isolate situation. However I have felt once again inspired to form a group.

Let me know what you decide to do.

You certainly have my prayers.😃

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
Thank you so much for the information. Please keep this going I need all the help I can get… this is a special one I have been going off and on to a distant city as Jim has but felt that the carmilite group there was not exactly in the depth I believe is what is needed here.
Incidently at mass this morning at the reading Father recited the words of Jesus “Father I thank you that you have hidden these words and given them to the “littleones””. Wow …what an openiing I thought, that spured me on imencely.

Here are the desires I believe and I cover these with the blood of Christ as I write them.
1 A true knowledge of **“littleness” **biblically and through Therese actions. How the bible shows Elijha related.
2 Complete confidence upon God. Using the words of Therese “If I had commited every sin” and Gemma’s “IF God stood me on the edge of the abis still I would have all confidence in God”

3 And the most important point (way of living) is self denial. To be able to do those everyday little things that are by others unnoticable. The things that can be done every where but only God knows about them.

I spoke to my priest today who told me that he is the providences head carmilite Priest andhe gave his blessing. I told him how you are helping me which he agreed with and was thankful for.

So …thank you all please more prayers and support. Father is an “Indian” priest (from India) and they belong to the C M I Carmilite Mary Imaculate order. But he said they differ only in that there is a n Indian cultural presence. This suites us my beiing part Maori (Polanesian).

Thank you again keep calling with info
Godbless
Godlovestrength.
 
blessedstar said:
I forgot to say that the cloistered Religious Sisters are Second Order and the Active Religious Sisters are Third Order, then the laity are Third Order Secular. Sorry for that.🙂

In the Living Prayer of my life
Click to expand...
Please if the nuns are 2nd order then who are the first order or is there one?

Godbless
Godlovestrength
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Thanks for the info.

I’ve never started a group, but only know of one new one that started and a member of our group went there to help and eventually became a member, as our group died(literally) out.

Every now and then, I’ve thought that perhaps the Blessed Mother wanted me to start a new chapter in my area. My old group was 1.5 hrs away. Anyway, the inspiration never developed beyond a mere thought and my wife, who also an OCDS, had no desire to get involved forming a new group. I’d need her help.

In Carmel
Jim
Click to expand...
My prayers go out to you I believe that we should all help each other here if it is our Blessed Lords will. I have thought about it for years and now we have been blessed with one carmilite priest comming 5 years ago and getting residence and now two months ago another has joined him. So two carmilite priests I think that the time is here for new growth.

Go Jim ( in the name of oyr pressious Lord that is).
Godbless
Godlovestrength.
 
Godlovestrength said:
Please if the nuns are 2nd order then who are the first order or is there one?

Godbless
Godlovestrength
Click to expand...
The first order is the Friars and Priests.

As your Priest is the Provincial Father, then you press on and do whatever he tells you.🙂

I’ll keep you in my prayers to St Therese and may she shower your new group with little ones and many many roses.

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
blessedstar said:
The first order is the Friars and Priests.

As your Priest is the Provincial Father, then you press on and do whatever he tells you.🙂
I’ll keep you in my prayers to St Therese and may she shower your new group with little ones and many many roses.
In the Living Prayer of my life
Click to expand...
Thank you my sister as Therese is my loving sister I accept your prayers and yes I realise the roses that will come my way to an extent. Last night I had two roses one from my boss indirectly , his telling one of the workers behind my back that I had AlzheImers where I don’t, but on the other hand ( my doing security in the hospital) the nurses asked for my help with an angry patient where another guard was supposed to be on. I had asked the Holy Spirit for help, He always comes and the youth was soothed. There is no fear in me of these things so the cross of the two roses come one to show the gifts of the Holy spirit and the other to not allow me to build on pride.
Godbless Bl St

The information you have given me I am colating and will then present it to our priests to check before going further. Then Iwill go to each parish so that we use one center. We have at least one person who has been in the 3rd order for some years and I have contact with her. So that is the loose formation as is.

Godbless
 
The first order are the friars and priest, of the order.

Priest who desire to follow the spirituality of the order, may become 3rd order. John Paul II, was a 3rd order Discalced Carmelite.

Its why the Discalced Carmelites distinguish between the secular(lay people) order and 3rd order.

It should also be noted that only the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, have the option of making vows of Chastity and Obedience. All others make promises.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
It should also be noted that only the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, have the option of making vows of Chastity and Obedience. All others make promises.

Jim
Click to expand...
Hi Jim

I am O’Carm and a Third Order Secular may make vows if they wish. Most of the members make promises, but if you feel called to a member can make vows of Chastity and Obedience at profession, but not Poverty as the person is a Layperson living in the secular world.

Perhaps it has changed since you were in a Community. Do you have the new Rule from 2003? I don’t have mine at the moment it is with a Priest friend so I can’t give you the address to send off for one, but you can get the new Rule of St Albert from your nearest Chapter. They are fairly inexpensive, thank God:D .

In the Living Prayer of my life
 
blessedstar said:
Hi Jim

I am O’Carm and a Third Order Secular may make vows if they wish. Most of the members make promises, but if you feel called to a member can make vows of Chastity and Obedience at profession, but not Poverty as the person is a Layperson living in the secular world.

Perhaps it has changed since you were in a Community. Do you have the new Rule from 2003? I don’t have mine at the moment it is with a Priest friend so I can’t give you the address to send off for one, but you can get the new Rule of St Albert from your nearest Chapter. They are fairly inexpensive, thank God:D .

In the Living Prayer of my life
Click to expand...
I did not know that O’Carm 3rd order members could make vows, I guess its part of the Carmelite order in general.

Like O’ Carm, we can make vows of Chastity and Obedience, 1 year after making definitive promises of Obedience, Chastity and Poverty. It is totally optional and isn’t even suggested, when making your definitive promises. Both my wife and myself made our vows together, back in 2000.

They no longer refer to it as the Rule of Life any more, its now called the Constitutions of the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites. I’m not sure why they change the title. Here’s the link

ocdswashprov.org/legislation/index.htm

Jim
 
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