The logic behind Muslim belief

[banjo]

freedomm:

Why do you (Christians) must believe that he was God also?
…

Jesus Christ is the *word *of God incarnate.

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the *Word, *and the *Word *was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 20:28 "Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

 

[LilyM]

cestusdei:

Muslims have no evidence that Jesus was not crucified. NONE. There logic amounts to “Islam says so”. Not good enough for me. All the evidence we do have points to Jesus crucifixition and resurrection.

I personally like the Muslim idea that Allah actually staked a big vegas-style magic show or something and made it LOOK as if Jesus was crucified when he really wasn’t, which makes the Islamic God a) the mother and father of all con artists and b) an entrapper of a billion or so people into false belief.

 

[freedomm]

LilyM:

I personally like the Muslim idea that Allah actually staked a big vegas-style magic show or something and made it LOOK as if Jesus was crucified when he really wasn’t, which makes the Islamic God

a) the mother and father of all con artists and

b) an entrapper of a billion or so people into false belief.

Dear LilyM:

I wish you had thought twice before making the above false statements.

What you have to say about the following ideas:

a) Jesus was God and used to eat and drink and go to toilet to excrete as a man, then He Himself committed suicide (because he is considered as God) and if He was not at the time of going to toilet and at the time of dying on the cross then he died as a Son of God and when cried loudly to his Holy Father, who is actually the Father of every Tom, Dick & Harry, but His Most Loving Father–The God of Love– reject His “ONLY BEGOTTEN” son’s loud cry when the same Father did save him from death when His “ONLY BEGOTTEN” son prayed to Him with tears:
Hebrews 5:7-8

**In the days when he [Jesus] was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; **

The question is: if Jesus was himself God then from who he learned obedience? You mean God learned how to be obedient? To who? For what? From his suffering? God suffered?
Does all this make any sense?

Doesn’t this due to a con-Artist’s false assumptions that Jesus was God , when he is clearly refuted the idea of him being divine (read the whole context of John 10:30…starting from verse 23) then he has said “his Father is greater than all” and his Father is Father of all.

After all this clear rejection of any divinity from Jesus, who is putting his words in Jesus’ mouth? You or the Muslims?​

Now coming to your next statement, b) an entrapper of a billion or so people into false belief , consider the following:

If I use your above logic/reasoning, then what you have to say about atleast half a billion Hindus and about a billion Buddhists of China and other Asian countries? They all are more than Catholics in number/population. Do you mean God did not entrapp them into their false belief?
Then, what will happen to their innocent babies who died in their infancy? Will they atleast go to the Paradise? or Hell or LIMBO?

And what will happen to those innocent Vietnamese and Japanese when they died due to American bombings? Obviously all those who died were not criminals. Will they all be saved and go to Heaven or your God of Love will let them die/live in the Hell forever?

Did you notice again where your false logic, false reasoning and false dogma leading towards??​

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[LilyM]

Freedomm, according to Muslim belief was it or was it not at least partially Allah’s doing that Christ appeared to die at his crucifixion? Forgive me if I’m wrong on this point, but it has been mentioned once or twice earlier and not contradicted.

If it is true, can you give me a SHORT explanation as to why Allah would do this? Why permit or make Jesus go through a sham crucifixion? What would be achieved by it? It does indeed appear that Allah is party to a fraud or deception.

 

[Cubsfan]

LilyM:

Freedomm, according to Muslim belief was it or was it not at least partially Allah’s doing that Christ appeared to die at his crucifixion? Forgive me if I’m wrong on this point, but it has been mentioned once or twice earlier and not contradicted.

If it is true, can you give me a SHORT explanation as to why Allah would do this? Why permit or make Jesus go through a sham crucifixion? What would be achieved by it? It does indeed appear that Allah is party to a fraud or deception.

LilyM

I would like to point out the folly of the muslim position. In order for Mohammed to be a seen as a Prophet he would have to deny the divinity of Christ.

Mohammed, Joseph Smith et al always use the same logic to claim there prophetic status. Beware false Prophets…

Pray for Freedomm, that he may come to know the one true faith.

 

[LilyM]

Cubsfan:

LilyM

I would like to point out the folly of the muslim position. In order for Mohammed to be a seen as a Prophet he would have to deny the divinity of Christ.

Mohammed, Joseph Smith et al always use the same logic to claim there prophetic status. Beware false Prophets…

Pray for Freedomm, that he may come to know the one true faith.

I agree, but I want to be clear (from the horse’s mouth so to speak) as to what Muslims ACTUALLY believe and not baselessly attack a false preconception of what they believe.

 

[Reuben_J]

LilyM:

I agree, but I want to be clear (from the horse’s mouth so to speak) as to what Muslims ACTUALLY believe and not baselessly attack a false preconception of what they believe.

The idea that Jesus was made to appear to die on the cross but actually didn’t, comes from the Quran to dispute Christians’ belief that he died. If it goes along with the NT narration that Jesus truly died, where would Muhammad be then?

Muslims use this argument to enforce their assertion that Christians believe wrong and the Bible is corrupted. This idea have been debated many times, and it’s quite clear the argument of “Jesus appeared to die but actually not” cannot be sustained against the evidence that Jesus did die indeed on the cross. Evidence obtained even fron non-Christian and neutral sources.

And yes, Lily, Muslims seem to shy away from using this argument now, and so I think you may not get to hear it from the horse’ mouth here in the meantime, untill someone new comes along and starts it all over again.

 

[freedomm]

Reuben J:

I’m still not too sure. In its defintion of worship, Islam’s standard is indeed very strict. It considers our veneration of Mary as worship. If this same standard is applied to its own practices, I see no difference why we cannot say it gives some kinds of divinity and worship to the Kaaba and the Quran.

Dear Reuben J:

No Muslim in his right mind will ever worship to the Ka’abah or the Holy Quran. It is against the Law of the very teachings of the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), to worship anything besides ALLAH who is THE CREATOR of ALL.

By the way not every Muslim is required to go to the Ka’abah except those who have means to go there and can leave enough money behind to his family while he is out for Hajj or 'Umrah.

Then the whole purpose of the Holy Quran is to recite and apply it’s Divine Message/Law in daily life and not to decore the Holy Quran and keep in a shelf. Without the application of it’s contents, the Islamic Way of Life (Addeen) cannot be acheived. So there is no question at all to worship the Book.

Surah 17: Verse 9

**Verily this Qur’an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; **