The logic of petitionary prayer

[redactorab]

Below is a quote from this interview with conservative writer Heather MacDonald:
gnxp.com/blog/2007/01/10-questions-for-heather-mac-donald.php

My question, as a lifelong Catholic struggling for stronger faith, is this: How DOES Catholicism answer this kind of criticism of petitionary prayer?

Heather MacDonald:

Around that time, I had started noticing the puzzling logic of petitionary prayer. What was the theory of God behind prayer websites, for example: that God is a democratic pol with his finger to the wind of public opinion? Is the idea that if only five people are praying for the recovery of a beloved grandmother from stroke, say, God will brush them off, but that if you can summon five thousand people to plead her case, he will perk up and take notice: “Oh, now I understand, this person’s life is important”? And what if an equally beloved grandmother comes from a family of atheist curs? Since she has no one to pray for her, will God simply look the other way? If someone could explain this to me, I would be very grateful.

I also wondered at the narcissism of believers who credit their good fortune to God. A cancer survivor who claims that God cured him implies that his worthiness is so obvious that God had to act. It never occurs to him to ask what this explanation for his deliverance says about the cancer victim in the hospital bed next to his, who, despite the fervent prayers of her family, died anyway.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The best explanation I’ve heard goes like this:

1. God, obviously, wills the ultimate good of all men and women. Otherwise, we could not call God Himself “good.”
2. As such, God has formed the world in such a way that ultimate good will come to pass, even if temporal evils may occur in the meantime.
3. According to the doctrine of free will, our actions do have consequences for other people – not eternal consequences, perhaps, but *temporal *consequences. Example: If I supply a needy person with a job, they will be able to better care for their family.
4. In just such a way, God has ordained that our prayers (however “spiritual”) can be a cause of His intervention into certain situations. Prayers are acts of the will, in other words. They can (miracle of miracles!) sway God.

(Remember: Jesus told Mary at the wedding of Cana that it was “not yet His time” to perform miracles. And yet, because He loved His mother, His will “bent” to hers and He did perform that miracle. This is a perfect example of how intercession works).

1. It does not follow that God withholds aid from those not prayed for. If God is good, He gives to them (as He gives to all) every resource they need to attain the Kingdom. Perhaps – strange thought – temporal happiness is not as critical for beatitude as we imagined. God’s blessing on the poor and suffering may not be “material” all the time, but it is no less real.

Hope this helps!

: Prodigal :

 

[Genesis315]

First I want to point out that you’ll find Catholics thanking God for healing/prosperity/etc. but you will also find them (especially saints) thanking God for poverty and suffering.

This is because as Catholics we understand that our faith life involves participating in the divine life, especially the life of Christ. Through petitionary prayer we also participate in the divine life. Fulfilling the threefold office of Christ–priest, prophet, king–the universal priesthood of all believers (not to be confused with the ordained ministerial priesthood) is one way petitionary prayer comes into play. As a priest we offer prayer and sacrifice/penances so that grace will be bestowed on ourselves and others. . But just in general through prayer we more explicitly experience our dependnce on God and also our participation in his saving work.

It is not absolutely necessary for petitionary prayer, but God has willed that we have recourse to it for our own good–just as he has ordained that the Blessed Virgin and all the angels and saints are constantly praying for us in Heaven obtaining the graces we need

 

[InLight247]

My question, as a lifelong Catholic struggling for stronger faith, is this: How DOES Catholicism answer this kind of criticism of petitionary prayer?

Here is what I think:

**Eze 22:30 **- "I looked for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found none.

This means God is looking for man’s prayers, petitions and involvement of human affairs. It shows our prayers make difference.

So, in addition to our daily personal petitions, please also remember to pray for our nation, pray for our protection from natural disaster and terror attack.

Mt 9:2 - Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

This shows the importance of intercession. Because the friends of the paralytic interceded, not only with their prayers but also with actual actions, God’s mercy was bestowed on this man.

So while praying for our own needs, please also intercede for others.

Lu 18:2-5 - Once there was a judge in a certain city who respect of neither God nor man. A widow in the city kept on coming to him saying “Give me my right against my opponent.” For a time he refused, but finally he thought, “I care little for God or man, but this widow is wearing me out, I am going to settle in her favor ….”

This tells us the necessity of persistence of prayers. Always do our part - pray and do whatever necessary. Never give up until God says the last word. If we did our best and let God do the rest, we would have no regret.

As for why some died some got healed after earnest prayer petitions, we can only say God is sovereign. That’s where trust and obedience come in.

 

[FCEGM]

Below is a quote from this interview with conservative writer Heather MacDonald:
gnxp.com/blog/2007/01/10-questions-for-heather-mac-donald.php

My question, as a lifelong Catholic struggling for stronger faith, is this: How DOES Catholicism answer this kind of criticism of petitionary prayer? . . .

She neglects to acknowledge the lessons of humility when we bring our needs before God. A favorite book of mine, God the Father, by Abbe Emile Guerry, has this to say about petitionary prayer:

My Father knows what I need before I ask Him.
It would be absurd to pretend that I could bring influence to bear upon God. He is the Immutable. He does not change. My prayer can put no pressure on Him to make Him will or cease to will.
But since He is free to dispose of His gifts He freely ordained that some should be had in response to prayer; so that we might be obliged to realise our poverty, to have recourse to Him, to seek refuge in Him.
He has already seen everything before we ask Him. The whole course of events lies spread before His eternal eye, and proceeds according to the designs of His Love. He sees events and all their causes. Among their moral causes He sees also this present prayer of ours.
Our own poor prayer, offered up from this lost corner of the universe, at this fleeting moment in time, was taken into consideration from all eternity by this omnipotent God Who holds all things in His hands . . . .He heard it, where He dwells beyond time and change, where there is no before or after. . . .He saw our intention and He saw our need in the eternal simplicity of His creative Thought. He welcomed our prayer before it was uttered.
And, since He is Father, He had already heard it for the greater good of our soul: “who is there among you of whom, if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?. . .If you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?”
O Father . . . how great an act is prayer!
It sets us already in our place in eternity, while we are still borne along on the current of time.
It brings us back to the true source of our life, and associates us with this universal government by which Thou makest all things serve the true good of Thy sons.

 

[Jenlyn]

I like the scripture that inlight brings to this discussion.

One thing that might help is to go to the source when trying to find an answer. You are asking a question about your Cathoilc faith so posting your question here is great and you will be guided by Catholic teaching.

Heather Mac Donald is John M. Olin fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Well known for her realist take on immigration reform and law enforcement, of late she has been the center of a small controversy precipitated by a piece in The American Conservative where she expressed her atheism rather forcefully. Below are 10 questions and Heather’s answers (here is an exchange Heather had with Luke Ford from a few years back).

I would stay away from athiest when you want to answer an honest Catholic question like you are asking.

Ask us anything about the Catholic faith that you would like. You will almost always get your answer and the best part it will follow with your Catholic faith.

You have already gotten some great advise and resources to look at.

 

[dulcissima]

I think the simplest answer is because it is pleasing to God since he wants us to have a loving relationship not only with him but also with each other. I think praying itself is so important because it is not one-sided, because it helps us to be more disposed to look for God’s answer. When you have a whole lot of people getting together out of concern for eachother and opening themselves up to God’s will, then that is a very good thing.

 

[Charleston]

One of my favorite examples of intercessory prayer comes from the Old Testament Book of Zacharias where an angel pleads for Israel and is heard:

*12 And the angel of the Lord answered, and said: O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem, and on the cities of Juda, with which thou hast been angry? this is now the seventieth year. 13 And the Lord answered the angel, that spoke in me, good words, comfortable words. 14 And the angel that spoke in me, said to me: Cry thou, saying: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I am zealous for Jerusalem, and Sion with a great zeal. 15 And I am angry with a great anger with the wealthy nations: for I was angry a little, but they helped forward the evil.

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord: I will return to Jerusalem in mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts: and the building line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17 Cry yet, saying: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: My cities shall yet flow with good things: and the Lord will yet comfort Sion, and he will yet choose Jerusalem.* --Zacharias, Ch.1, DR drbo.org/chapter/43001.htm

Trying to work out the mechanics of petitionary prayer is probably futile. We/re calling on the Lord’s aid, not invoking some sort of magical incantation.

Though on another tangent, one of the better spiritual counsels I received during Reconciliation was that prayer should also go beyond petitioning God to do my will but on a deeper level should be a way of helping conform myself to God’s will.

Best, :tiphat: