"The Lord is with you"

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SueKrum

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Every sunday at the start of mass, the canter in the choir picks up the micraphone and says to the congragation, “The Lord is with you” and everyone is supposed to say “and also with you” and then they announce who is celebrating mass (we are blessed to have three priests at our church) and the song number in the hymm book.

One day a couple of months ago, one of our priests approached the choir director and the canter (I was standing near by and listening to their conversation) Fr. said that the proclimation is suppoed to be “the lord BE with you” because we can’t make the proclamation that the Lord IS with someone. That’s reserved for God and the Angels (hence the angel telling Mary that the lord IS with her). Since Fr. said this to the choir director, I’ve noticed that every time THAT priest says mass, the canter says “the Lord be with you” but if he is not there, the canter says “the Lord IS with you.” I do not think it’s a coinsidence. We have about six or seven different people who take turns cantering and they ALL do it, so I believe it’s under the instruction of the choir director. I feel like it’s a blatent act of willful dissobediance or disrespect for what the priest said.

I feel like it would be like of my mom told me not to say a certain cuss word, so I decided to only not say it when she’s in the room.

Am I just splitting hairs here? Does it really matter what the canter says? What Father said made a lot of sense to me. Should I ask the choir director about it? I know him as an aquaintance. Should I say something to Father? I feel a little bit wierd like I"m the only one who knows what’s going on because I happened to be standing right behind the priest when he was talking to the choir director.

what would ya’ll do? It’s really starting to get to me.
 
Why on earth is the cantor doing this? Only the priest is supposed to say this - if he uses option C after he has said “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. To which we would have responded “Amen.”

The choir may sing an entrance song, but have no business saying something that belongs to the priest. :eek:
 
SueKrum said:
Every sunday at the start of mass, the canter in the choir picks up the micraphone and says to the congragation, “The Lord is with you” and everyone is supposed to say “and also with you” and then they announce who is celebrating mass (we are blessed to have three priests at our church) and the song number in the hymm book.

One day a couple of months ago, one of our priests approached the choir director and the canter (I was standing near by and listening to their conversation) Fr. said that the proclimation is suppoed to be “the lord BE with you” because we can’t make the proclamation that the Lord IS with someone. That’s reserved for God and the Angels (hence the angel telling Mary that the lord IS with her). Since Fr. said this to the choir director, I’ve noticed that every time THAT priest says mass, the canter says “the Lord be with you” but if he is not there, the canter says “the Lord IS with you.” I do not think it’s a coinsidence. We have about six or seven different people who take turns cantering and they ALL do it, so I believe it’s under the instruction of the choir director. I feel like it’s a blatent act of willful dissobediance or disrespect for what the priest said.

I feel like it would be like of my mom told me not to say a certain cuss word, so I decided to only not say it when she’s in the room.

Am I just splitting hairs here? Does it really matter what the canter says? What Father said made a lot of sense to me. Should I ask the choir director about it? I know him as an aquaintance. Should I say something to Father? I feel a little bit wierd like I"m the only one who knows what’s going on because I happened to be standing right behind the priest when he was talking to the choir director.

what would ya’ll do? It’s really starting to get to me.
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As far as I know, the cantor has no real official position and is just another layperson. My advice, don’t make any response. He’ll probably get the hint pretty quick if everyone stopped saying it. No response is required when the cantor makes a personal remark, which it appears he is doing. And of course this statement is made outside of the Mass itself also and is irrelevant.

All it takes for heretical ideas to take root is for Christians to sit by and acquiese. Not saying this action is heretical, but it does serve to illustrate how ideas not born from scripture or tradition can creep in and influence things.
 
In the grand scheme of things, I’d rate this as a minor annoyance. It is outside of the celebration of Mass itself, so it is not subject to liturgical rules. And, in a sense, it is true. After all, we’re all sitting in a church that presumably has a tabernacle, so the Lord is with all of us.

That said, it appears to be a snotty dismissal of what the priest said. But I don’t think running to tattle is worth the trouble. Later on, something really important might come up, and you don’t want to spend all your credibility on something like this, getting yourself labeled as a troublemaker. Just offer it up and pray for patience.

I’ve run across lots of priests who say this, and when they do, I respond, “May He also be with you.”

Betsy
 
the canter says this before mass begins. The priest, once he has come in says something along the lines of “let us begin our celebration in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”. The congragation responds with “ahmen” and the priest says, “And the Lord be with you”. So the canter’s proclamation before mass does not substitute for that of the priest. It’s like a “good morning” sort of thing, I guess.

it goes like this;
lights come on and the congragation stands up
canter: “the lord is/be (depending on who’s celebrating mass) with you.”
congragation: “and also with you”
canter: “today is the fifth sunday in ordenary time. Celebrating today’s liturgy is Father X assisted by Decon Y. Please join in our gathering hymn, ‘gather us in’ on page 666 in your breaking bread book.” the song starts and the priest and the alter persons (my FAV term) and other people come in. and mass starts in what I am guessing is the usual way.

the fact that the canter is greeting the congration doesn’t bother me, it’s the fact that they choir was told that this choice of words is not appropriate and yet, they still do it.
 
This is taken from a response on Zenit:
Certainly the greeting is very ancient. In the biblical Book of Ruth (2:4) Booz greets his reapers with “The Lord be with you.” To which they replied, “The Lord bless you.” Instead of this phrase the liturgy uses the “And with your spirit” which in its original Judeo-Christian context means the same as “And also with you.”
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However, from ancient times the expression “And with your spirit” received an added, more spiritual, meaning.
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St. John Chrysostom (344-407) refers to the spirit of the greeting as the indwelling Spirit and as an allusion to the fact that the bishop performs the sacrifice by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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For this reason the greeting “The Lord be with you” was from early on restricted to bishops, priests and deacons.
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It is probably the spiritual theological interpretation of this dialogue, through which the faithful, in a way, are constituted as a liturgical assembly with and through the “spirit” of the priest that has moved the Holy See to insist on a more literal translation in future missals. This might initially cause some adjustment difficulties in countries (such as the English-speaking world and Brazilian Portuguese) which adopted non-literal translations.
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I would remain silent if I were attending that Mass. No response would be forthcoming from my lips. Maybe my hand would be holding my mouth shut for several reasons, but no other movement or response.😉
 
Note, too, the proper posture of the people when responding “And also with you,” is not to extend your arms like the Priest does. His gesture is a priestly, liturgical gesture. It is not something the people are to mimic. If you notice, even a deacon (if he is properly trained) will not extend his hands when he goes to read the Gospel and prefaces it with “The Lord be with you.” He is directed to keep his hands together. A priest reading the gospel is acting as a substitute deacon, so he falls under the rules of a deacon at that point and should not extend his hands at the Gospel reading.

It’s minutia, but it is symptomatic of a deeper ailment. People have not been catechized on basic Catholic doctrine, much less liturgical norms, much less a proper theology of the priesthood.
 
Note that The Lord be with you is a prayer, while *The Lord is with you *is a judgement. Since one is not in a position to judge the spiritual state of the celebrant, one might respond *And maybe with you. 😃 *
 
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Joe_Kelley said:
Note that The Lord be with you is a prayer, while *The Lord is with you *is a judgement. Since one is not in a position to judge the spiritual state of the celebrant, one might respond *And maybe with you. 😃 *
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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