The Lords Prayer and communal recitation

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Darryl_B

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The pastor at my wife’s evangelical southern baptist style church started a new theme for his sermons, the Lord’s prayer. Afterwards I challenged him to get the congregation to recite the Lords prayer together, but he was very hesitant to do it, claiming it is just a template and that it would be being “religious”, and that he certainly would not do that every week.

What is the problem for him?
 
Darryl_B said:
The pastor at my wife’s evangelical southern baptist style church started a new theme for his sermons, the Lord’s prayer. Afterwards I challenged him to get the congregation to recite the Lords prayer together, but he was very hesitant to do it, claiming it is just a template and that it would be being “religious”, and that he certainly would not do that every week.

What is the problem for him?
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Vain repetition. Reciting or repeating the Prayer gives it a mundane mumbling over and over again. Hence it is given terms like " let’s say the Our Father." Try praying the Lord’s Prayer asking what the words Jesus gave us really mean.
 
Generally Evangelicals are opposed to repetitive prayers. They’re seen as meaningless in most instances and Roman. Even the our father gets caught up in that…
 
BartholomewB said:
Does this mean the Southern Baptists are opposed to religion?
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Generally speaking, to Southern Baptist true religion comes from the heart not from habitual ceremony. And while ceremony is helpful in shaping our heart toward God it can also become something we do out of habit and tradition instead a genuine heart toward God.

After all, it is possible to do lots of “Christian” things and still not be a Christian. Sometimes this actually creates a stumbling block for someone to come to a saving faith in Christ. They think that they are a in a relationship with Christ because of what they do instead of understanding that we do flows from our relationship with Christ.

I’ve heard a lot of people say that they thought they were Christian because they grew up in church and were faithful to attend and even work in the church. However, one day they realized that their heart had never truly been changed and they had never truly repented and trusted in Christ and it wasn’t until that moment they were actually “born again” and been made a new creation in Christ.
 
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I asked the question because I was told on another website that the Lord’s Prayer is explicitly exempted from the ban on “repetitive prayer.” The answer, I suppose, is that that is true of some Evangelical churches but not of others.
 
Even though they sing the same songs/hymns week after week, often repeating the same verse. One of the many reasons I ceased being an evangelical as a teen… the logical inconsistencies / lack of internal coherency.

My wife’s former Pentecostal church decried Catholic liturgy, yet I witnessed them literally singing the same verse of a song for 10+ minutes, almost as a mantra, swaying and waving hands…
 
Well Pentecostal and Evangelical don’t always go hand in hand. But your point is well taken as I’ve seen Evangelical Churches that are and aren’t consistent on that point.
 
I wonder what they think about the Psalms?
 
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On the surface that seems very judgmental.

And thank God I am not like those Catholics kind of thing.
 
This also is kind of judgemental. It assumes one has no idea what they are saying. It is also accusing Jesus of being “religious”, but then let’s face it he was religious, as are Catholics as are southern baptists, they just cannot see it about themselves.

Some it appears just don’t understand the term “religious” and its actual true meaning and have tried to offset it with the word “relationship” which then gets acted out through the device of continuous change.

But being creatures of habit, the prayers become eventually the same, “Jesus we just … x 50”, the services become eventually the same, the songs of worship all sound the same, the sermons start repeating.
 
I don’t believe the pastors problem is one of repetition, we haven’t communally done it once yet.

I don’t believe the pastors problem is one of aesthetics, he seems genuinely afraid of transgressing a law, he seems genuinely afraid there is a line being crossed, a conscience being seared.

I’m just not sure what it is that I can help him deal with it, for I genuinely believe it is a more wronger thing to abstain from the Lord’s Prayer than to say the Lord’s Prayer,
 
It’s “too Catholic”

Might tell him that he does not appear to be following the bible. Our Lord said no such thing even remotely suggesting a “template” - He said “This is how you should pray” Matthew 6:9

When He spoke thus, it was a command.
 
If it’s just that the practice (and lets face it, if we don’t practice we’ll never get any better) is Catholic then that would be an historically motivated issue rather than a seeming betrayal of Scriptural admonition.

For St. Paul never said

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things aren’t Catholic, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

It’s not like putting one foot in the Tiber.

I will try the presentation of the “command” appealing to Scripture.

(Just as an aside I have never heard a prayer which actually comes close to following the 7 statement “template”. Just how loose of a template are we talking about anyway).
 
Well, I was raised Pentecostal and we said the Lord’s Prayer communally, on occasion. I even recall that being done in the Southern Baptist church I was once a member of too. I’ve never heard of anyone having an issue with it before, honestly. However, the fact that there are some out there that do doesn’t surprise me. Evangelical types can be all over the place.
 
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Darryl_B said:
I don’t believe the pastors problem is one of repetition, we haven’t communally done it once yet.

I don’t believe the pastors problem is one of aesthetics, he seems genuinely afraid of transgressing a law, he seems genuinely afraid there is a line being crossed, a conscience being seared.

I’m just not sure what it is that I can help him deal with it, for I genuinely believe it is a more wronger thing to abstain from the Lord’s Prayer than to say the Lord’s Prayer,
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Sounds to me like he’s one of those pastors who is embracing “spiritual, not religious.”

Reminds me of a Lutheran church that used to be down the street from me before it folded. On their sign, they had the following message: “Hate religion? We do too! Join us for our spiritual but religious service on Sundays” <<< I so wish I would have taken a picture of that.

God Bless
 
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My dad has always said that the Our Father is just a template. I think that’s fairly common in the South among Non denominational and other evangelical and charismatic types. It stems from a strict interpretation of “vain repetition”. What most of these type of faith groups really means is “no repetition”. They don’t really consider what vain exactly means.
 
But Christians can obey the Lord’s command to pray His Prayer by praying it in their private devotions. There is no specific command to pray it communally.
 
Peeps said:
But Christians can obey the Lord’s command to pray His Prayer by praying it in their private devotions. There is no specific command to pray it communally.
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Yeah, well why did the Apostles pray it in community then?

It wasn’t something that was added to the liturgy over time. The ancient Church prayed it
 
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