The Lord's Prayer

[johnnykins]

I want to know why we use the second person singular in translation when that verb form has completely disappeared from modern English usage … has antiquarianism won the day?

 

[EasterJoy]

I want to know why we use the second person singular in translation when that verb form has completely disappeared from modern English usage … has antiquarianism won the day?

I can see where someone whose mother tongue has the familiar would balk at losing it when learning these foundational prayers in English. It might sound antique, but if the familiar is understood for what it is–rather than being mistaken as a super-formal-royal-form of some sort, for instance–then it is a good reason to keep that last vestige of the familiar in English.

 

[ProVobis]

French “Notre Père” translates coelis as the plural ‘cieux’ rather than the singular ‘ciel’ and dimitte nobis debita nostra is 'pardonnez-nous nos offenses.

Interestingly, before 1966, *et ne nos inducas in tentationem *was translated as “Et ne nous laissez pas succomber à la tentation” rather than the present “Et ne nous soumets pas à la tentation”. So before 1966 we were praying that God would not let us give in to temptation and now we pray that He won’t submit us to temptation.

That change must have gone over well in France.

 

[Phemie]

That change must have gone over well in France.

Wouldn’t know. I have to admit that I’d forgotten that change, it came when I was 13. IIRC, we were originally addressing God in the second person plural at Mass, as we did in private prayer, but that later changed to second person singular – didn’t go over we’ll with some families where children always addressed their parents in the formal second person plural.

 

[Rich_C]

I understand they decided to leave the Pater Noster alone in the new “new literal” English translation. If they were to change it, they’d also have to change “trespasses” to “debts,” “hallowed” to “sanctified” and so on. Maybe next time.

From what I understand, the original Catholic translations of the Pater Noster used the word “debt” but soon afterward the Protestant Revolt hit and the new Church of England preferred the word “trespasses.” Since the English dominated the English-speaking world, we have long since adopted their translation.