The Lord's Supper?

[Don9of11]

My nephew who pentecostal asked me this question on Facebook. He needs info on the Lord’s Supper, being a direct command from scripture? Im pretty sure he is not interested in a conversation about the Lord’s Supper and Scripture but rather a debate which is usually where our conversation end up or an attempt to convert me

I have been ignoring him lately for just this reason. Last time he wanted help in understanding Purgatory. So, I did a search through the library and sent him the links and inviting him to join the forum. I don’t know if he availed himself to read through the links and I don’t think he joined the forum. In any event, are there any scriptures that I can point him to or articles in the library that would answers his questions.

Thanks

 

[crazzeto]

For Starters
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PX5.HTM Luke 22:17-22

17

Then he took a cup, 6 gave thanks, and said, "Take this and share it among yourselves;

18

for I tell you (that) from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

19

7 Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”

20

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.

21

"And yet behold, the hand of the one who is to betray me is with me on the table;

22

for the Son of Man indeed goes as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed."

Next I would direct him to www.earlychristianwritings.com, a website dedicated soly to the writings we still have to this day left by the Christians who were taught the faith directly by the Apostles, and of the Apostles (Sacrade Scripture), and in the first few centuries after the Apstoles death (those who were taught by those whom the Apostles taught).

Particularly are the writings of Justin Martyr, his apologies give a full accounting of early Christian mass. What you will find, interestingly enough, is that they regarded the celebration of the Eucharist as the entire point of the mass.

I hope this helps.

 

[JAGCath28]

What are his exact questions? Is he asking about the bread and the wine being the actual body and blood of Christ?

Read John Chapter 6 specifically beginning around verses 45 to the end of the chapter. Jesus tells those in the synagogue in Capernum that He is the bread of life and that whoever eats his flesh and drinks his blood will have eternal life. Those in the audience did not like this and even questioned Him. “Did he say to eat his flesh?” Many left. Even Jesus’ disciples questioned Him. Jesus didn’t correct them and say, “Oh no. I didn’t mean to actually eat my flesh. It’s a metaphor.” He repeated it. “Eat my flesh.”

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

Jessica

 

[crazzeto]

I understood this to be “when did Jesus tell us to even do it”. John Chapter 6 is also good in this regard, though I also think it’s good to throw out there “do this in memory of me”. And again, there’s a subtext to this question. “Where is it in the bible”, so I think there’s some value in pointing him to early christian writings. It might kind of spark something in his mind. “Not only was that in the bible, but maybe everything a Christian ought to beleive isn’t necessarly in the bible”.

 

[JAGCath28]

I understood this to be “when did Jesus tell us to even do it”. John Chapter 6 is also good in this regard, though I also think it’s good to throw out there “do this in memory of me”. And again, there’s a subtext to this question. “Where is it in the bible”, so I think there’s some value in pointing him to early christian writings. It might kind of spark something in his mind. “Not only was that in the bible, but maybe everything a Christian ought to beleive isn’t necessarly in the bible”.

I’m a convert, and that is definitely one of the things that finally convinced me. How did they do it in the beginning? The early Christian writings give a very good history of the Church and a good look at what life was like for a Christian during that time. Your nephew has to first get over that hump of Sola Scriptura. It is difficult to do, but if he can come to at least appreciate the history of Christianity then he may eventually come to realize that the closest form to that in modern times IS the Catholic Church. This would then allow you to get the door open a little bit to explain other things such as the Pope.

 

[rocketrob]

The prior two examples are very good. Here is a related Catholic Answers tract: catholic.com/library/Institution_of_the_Mass.asp

Even protestants acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the perfect and ultimate embodiment of the Paschal Lamb. They also acknowledge that the Old Testament is revealed in light of the New Testament. The original institution of the Lord’s Supper (or the Mass for that matter), has its origins in Exodus…on the night of the Lord’s Passover:

And this day shall be for a memorial to you: and you shall keep it a feast to the Lord in your generations with an everlasting observance. (Ex 12:14)

rocketrob

 

[erikd]

My nephew who pentecostal asked me this question on Facebook. He needs info on the Lord’s Supper, being a direct command from scripture? …

In any event, are there any scriptures that I can point him to or articles in the library that would answers his questions.

Thanks

Don, as the other posters have suggested, the sixth chapter of St. John’s Gospel explains what is to happen at the Last Supper. Many pentecostals will point out that this is not the Last Supper, and they’re right. Jesus taught of Himself as the Bread of Life before he showed the Apostles how to communicate the Bread of Life to each other and to the faithful. Chapter 6 is filled with quotes that make the Lord’s Supper a mandate for eternal life. If you cannot receive Jesus as the Bread of Life, you cannot be received by the Father. This, of course, is followed by the Last Supper (St. Matt. 26: 20-30, St. Mark 14:17-26, St. Luke 22:14-30, St. John 13:21-30) where Jesus tells His disciples to do this in memory of Him. In other words, St. John ch. 6 is the explanation and the prophecy, the Last Supper is the fulfillment of that prophecy and the explanation coming to life. Here are some key verses though the whole chapter should be read.

*32 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 “For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

40 “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

48 "I am the bread of life.
49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 "This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
51 “I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 "For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.
56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
58 “This is the bread which came down from heaven-not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” *

 

[Don9of11]

What are his exact questions? Is he asking about the bread and the wine being the actual body and blood of Christ?
Jessica

He needs info on the Lord’s Supper, being a direct command from scripture? I don’t his exact questions only this much.

I am at work so I don’t have too much time to review the various post but will do so when I get home. From what I see I have some reading and research to do myself.

 

[JanetF]

For the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist see: 1Cor 10:16-17; 11:23-29 and John 6:32-71.

For the sacrifice of the Mass see Luke 22:19; 1Cor 11:24-25

For Communion as an intimate encounter with Christ see 1Cor 12:13; CCC 1396, or John 6:53-58

And for good measure tell him that the Catholic Mass is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Calvary NOT a re-crucifixion.

And then sit back and relax

 

[ryanoneil]

scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html

 

[mackbrislawn]

My nephew who pentecostal asked me this question on Facebook. He needs info on the Lord’s Supper, being a direct command from scripture? Im pretty sure he is not interested in a conversation about the Lord’s Supper and Scripture but rather a debate which is usually where our conversation end up or an attempt to convert me

I have been ignoring him lately for just this reason. Last time he wanted help in understanding Purgatory. So, I did a search through the library and sent him the links and inviting him to join the forum. I don’t know if he availed himself to read through the links and I don’t think he joined the forum. In any event, are there any scriptures that I can point him to or articles in the library that would answers his questions.

Thanks

Is the Lord’s Supper a direct command from scripture? That is an unusual question and I wonder where your nephew is coming from when he brings up that question.

There are some thoughts on this that may be of interest. Thoughts from a perspective that your nephew may not have considered at all.

First, we know of early Christians who celebrated the Lord’s Supper without any command of scripture at all. They didn’t need scripture to tell them to do it.

Why do we know this? Because we read in Paul’s letter to the Corinthians about them doing so. They were doing so before a single word of the New Testament had been written! Therefore, they were celebrating without scriptural warrant!

It is true, in the gospels Jesus says to do it in memory of him. However, we must remember the gospels were not written until many years later. The Corinthians were celebrating the Lord’s Supper many years before the gospels came into being. Why could they do this? They celebrated because Paul told them to, orally. He also would have told them just what it meant, meanings that he would not have had to repeat in his letters to them. We call that Tradition. This is an example of the immense importance of Tradition in knowing what scriptural passages mean. Without Tradition, scriptural discussions are nothing but a game of ping pong, going back and forth without getting anywhere.

Catholics should always remember this. And they should realize that is why there are so many varieties of Protestantism. Because Protestants have no guide for scriptural interpretation except their own predilictions. Their desire to guide their own steps.

 

[NotWorthy]

I think James Akin will help you discover where Jesus commands the Sacrifice of the Eucharist. The key words are “poiein” and “anamnesis”.

His statement, "***Do this in remembrance of me***," may also be translated, "*Offer this as my memorial sacrifice*" -- a fact Protestant preachers never mention when they talk about this passage. But it has a most important bearing on our discussion, because by telling the apostles to offer his memorial sacrifice, Jesus clearly ordained them as his priests.

In Greek, these words are Totou poiete eis tan emen anamnesin. They are usually translated into English as “Do this in remembrance of me,” but this does not do full justice to the words.
First of all, the word poiein or “do” has sacrificial overtones. This can be seen by examining the way it is used in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament. As Protestant theologian D. M. Baillie says in his book The Theology of the Sacraments,
*“There is no doubt that this verb is used frequently in the LXX in a cult or sacrificial sense. Gore says there are from 60 to 80 instances.” *
He then goes on to give examples. For instance, Exodus 29:38:
*"This is that which you shall offer (poieseis) upon the altar: two lambs . . . " *
Here the verb poiein should clearly be translated as offer, as all the Protestant translations of this passage have it. The King James, the Revised Standard, and the New International Version all render it as offer. Jesus’ word anamnesis, usually translated remembrance, also has sacrificial overtones. For example, in the NIV of Hebrews 10:3 we read,
*“But those sacrifices are an annual reminder [anamnesis] of sins.” *
The word for reminder in this passage is anamnesis. The passage thus tells us that these sacrifices are an annual anamnesis, an annual memorial offering, on behalf of the sins of the people. In fact, all of the occurrences of this word in the Protestant Bible, both in New Testament and the Greek Old Testament, occur in a sacrificial context.
An anamnesis of a memorial offering which one brings before God to prompt his remembrance. The thought is the same as when the Psalmist urges God to remember him, or the congregation, or Mount Zion, or how the enemy scoffs, or how God’s servant has been mistreated. The idea of a memorial offering is to present the gift to God and prompt him to take action. For example, in the NIV of Numbers 10:10 we read,
"Also at your times of rejoicing . . . you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, and they will be a memorial [LXX, *anamnesis

] for you before your God."

 

[crazzeto]

He needs info on the Lord’s Supper, being a direct command from scripture? I don’t his exact questions only this much.

I am at work so I don’t have too much time to review the various post but will do so when I get home. From what I see I have some reading and research to do myself.

Well I’m glad we could start pointing you in the right direction. Again I have to highly recommend pointing him to the church fathers. I think it doesn’t occure to most people that the church fathers actually left us some writing. This can be a powerful tool, people can (and do) interpet Sacrade Scripture any way you want. I would hope that he’s honest, and genuinly interested in learning “where it says that in the bible”, and will accept what the bible says for what it is.

But, if that’s not the case and you can get him to read the fathers. Then hopefully that would make him think “but… what? the people the apostles taught the faith to did exactly this every service?”

 

[Don9of11]

I want to thank everyone for their help and support. I read through a couple of the links posted and all the various comments plus one link I came across searching the library
catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/Eucharist/page15.

I decided to reply with the links to John Salza’s page on the Eucharist, the link from the library on the Institution of the Mass and the link to the Eucharist questions. I think these are good resources for getting info on the Lord’s Supper and the scriptural foundations.

And if he comments further, I a few more sources in my arsenal thanks to everyone here