The lost books of Islam...

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pprimeau1976

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Why is it that when it comes to the Gospels or the Old Testament, Muslims claim that these texts have been “lost” or mistranslated. Yet the Quran is in perfectly good shape.

Furthermore, (other than the Dead Sea Scrolls) what scholarship has existed to discover the originals or as close to original copies of these books from the Islamic standpoint. Have their been any Muslim scholars looking for these lost or accurate translations?
 
Saying that one historical book [the bible] has been corrupted while another historical [nut even ‘younger’] book [Quran] has not without inconytaveryable proof of the assertion is just that…an assertion that is founded in a bias and not within the historical record…

Point of fact: the most significant ‘find’ of the Dead Sea Scrolls was what they illustrated about the Hewbrew Texts…and what was it that the Dead Sea Scrolls illustrated?

That both the Jewish community and the Christian community both held sacred the scriptures. TThat ‘sacrafness’ becae a dedication to preserve the scriptures accurately. That even though [prior to the finding od the dead Sea Scrolls] the oldest extant weirings were several hundred years older and even with that span of several hundred years where extant writings remain unknown and therefore unvarifyable…the scriptures were very accurate, reveeling minor copiest errors…There was some clarifications of passages but overall, the scriptures were faithfully copied, translated and guarded through time…

And as I have just had to edit this post twice to remove typos and mis-spellings, I am in awe of our Christian and Jewish forebears who hand copied the holy word of God for us to use today,I hope I got them all but alas it is late and I will leave any imperfections and retire for the evening…Pax
 
first ,we muslims believe that bible is corrupted bec islam say so ,but as you know ,christians dont believe islam so how to prove to them that bible is corrupted ?
1-by what bible say about its corruption
2-by contradiction in the bible
3-commentaries of fathers who put canonization of bible
4-discoveries like dead sea scrolls ,gospel of judas
🙂
do you know that dead sea scrolls doesnt mention the christ ?

ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower’s described in the New Testament.

centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html
 
There are NO lost books of Islam.

There exists copies of the Qur’an which are from the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and they contain, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same text as found in the Qur’an we have today.

And speaking of the Dead Sea Scrolls, they mention not one but rather of two messiahs to come, the first would be a priestly messiah whereas the second would be a temporal messiah.

There can be little doubt of course that Jesus (pbuh) is the priestly messiah… but who do Christians think is the temporal or kingly messiah that the Dead Sea Scrolls also mentions?
 
YADA said:
And as I have just had to edit this post twice to remove typos and mis-spellings, I am in awe of our Christian and Jewish forebears who hand copied the holy word of God for us to use today
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you are not alone.
 
nobleman said:
first ,we muslims believe that bible is corrupted bec islam say so ,but as you know ,christians dont believe islam so how to prove to them that bible is corrupted ?
1-by what bible say about its corruption
2-by contradiction in the bible
3-commentaries of fathers who put canonization of bible
4-discoveries like dead sea scrolls ,gospel of judas
🙂
do you know that dead sea scrolls doesnt mention the christ ?

ministry of Jesus, none of the Scrolls refer to Him, nor do they mention any of His follower’s described in the New Testament.

centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html
Click to expand...
The “Gospel of Judas” was written in the 1930’s and the Dead See Scrolls were written in the first century, long before the canonization of The Bible. But one thing Christians and Muslims can agree on is faith doesn’t need proof .
 
hamba2han said:
There are NO
There can be little doubt of course that Jesus (pbuh) is the priestly messiah… but who do Christians think is the temporal or kingly messiah that the Dead Sea Scrolls also mentions?
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John the Baptist.
 
BrianK2007 said:
But one thing Christians and Muslims can agree on is faith doesn’t need proof .
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Muslims absolutely do not agree with this because in Islam, proof is in fact obligatory.

The proof of the Creator’s existence is the creations and the ultimate proof of the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) is the timeless miracle that he brought to humankind i.e. the Qur’an.

"Do they not consider the Qur’an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."… (Surah An-Nisa, 4:82)
 
in islam believe is based on proofs ,every word need proof
(( 2:111. And they say, “None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.” These are their own desires. Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), “Produce your proof if you are truthful.”))
 
Really, so unless I prove to you that the sun is going to come up in the morning you don’t think it’s going to happen?

I didn’t need The Bible to tell me of God’s existence. If you know of a discrepancy in The Bible please share it with us, but not in English, so we’re not arguing over matters of translation please give the original Greek or Hebrew.
 
If the Bible is corrupt, why did Muhammad command Christians to follow the Bible they possessed in 600 AD in Quran 2:89; 7:157?
 
BrianK2007 said:
Really, so unless I prove to you that the sun is going to come up in the morning you don’t think it’s going to happen?

I didn’t need The Bible to tell me of God’s existence. If you know of a discrepancy in The Bible please share it with us, but not in English, so we’re not arguing over matters of translation please give the original Greek or Hebrew.
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There are discrepancies in the Quran. For instance, the text of the Quran in 37:103 reads “they had both submitted their wills (became Muslims)” while the Arabic text of the Tashkent MSS gives the exact opposite meaning, “they did not submitted their wills” (they did NOT become Muslims.)

There are also glaring historical and scientific errors in the Quran. For instance, in 86:6-7 the Quran says, “man was created from ejected liquid- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs”. There are many other errors, which were based upon beliefs at the time of the writing of the Quran, which today can be proven false.
 
Well yeah, I can translate Greek, but it’ll take me awhile. I don’t read a word of Hebrew so I’ll need to get help from a friend.
 
Eden said:
If the Bible is corrupt, why did Muhammad command Christians to follow the Bible they possessed in 600 AD in Quran 2:89; 7:157?
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2:89. And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur’ân) from Allâh confirming what is with them [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], although aforetime they had invoked Allâh (for coming of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allâh be on the disbelievers.

The Noble Quran came to CONFIRM the Truth that exists in the Bible. Allah Almighty NEVER claimed that the bible is fully and 100% Divine. Islam is a witness on the Bible. It filters out the truth from falsehood and corruption in the Bible. The Noble Quran only recognizes the Bible as a HISTORY BOOK with errors and man’s alteration in it. Anything that agrees 100% with Islam is valid, and anything else that has even the slightest disagreement with Islam is discarded.
answering-christianity.com/que9.htm
 
hamba2han said:
There are NO lost books of Islam.
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What about the Suhuf-i-Ibrahim?
The Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (Scrolls of Abraham/Ibrahim) (Arabic: صحف ابراهيم) are part of the religious scriptures of Islam,and are believed to be lost by some.
In two suras, which are to be dated from the first Meccan period, there is a reference to the ‘leaves, scrolls’ (suhuf) of Abraham/ אַבְרָהָם /Ibrahim/ ابراهيم and Moses/Moshe/מֹשֶׁה /Musa/ موسى, by which presumably texts of revelation are meant (87:18-19; 53:36-37). The contents of this revelation is not known from the Qur’an.
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nobleman said:
Islam is a witness on the Bible.
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Is it a witness to the bible or did Mohammed see Byzantium being united under Constantine and decided to create a religion that incorporated local pagan customs with Judeo Christian customs.

Furthermore, Mohammed’s unification of the Arab tribes under this new religion, and even the extreme punishments for being an Islamic “apostate” or “defector” is testimony to the diabolical origins of this “religion”. If it is not diabolical, why maintain to this day the measures to keep people from leaving? If Islam is divine in origin, why not let people choose to be Islam or choose not to? God will naturally draw people to him, will he not?

Surely one can claim that Christian nations have not behaved well either. However the situation is different. Christianity for over 200 years was a persecuted religion. The Apostles “were the most abject of mankind.” People cursed them, and they blessed, They were considered the scum of the earth, the dregs of humanity. To this very day, Christians are still persecuted. The only people who kill in the name of Christianity or Catholicism were people who abused it to bolster political power.

Islam was started by a man who united a nation and became a leader of a nation within his lifetime. Even Abraham did not live to see his nation take shape. One can claim that God must have been on his side. If he was, why establish a law system that executes a person for leaving? Why be afraid of Islamic apostates? Why prevent U.S. soldiers for bringing their bibles on “sacred” Islamic ground?

Without Islam, many earthly princes would have no power.
 
pprimeau1976 said:
Is it a witness to the bible or did Mohammed see Byzantium being united under Constantine and decided to create a religion that incorporated local pagan customs with Judeo Christian customs.

Furthermore, Mohammed’s unification of the Arab tribes under this new religion, and even the extreme punishments for being an Islamic “apostate” or “defector” is testimony to the diabolical origins of this “religion”. If it is not diabolical, why maintain to this day the measures to keep people from leaving? If Islam is divine in origin, why not let people choose to be Islam or choose not to? God will naturally draw people to him, will he not?

Surely one can claim that Christian nations have not behaved well either. However the situation is different. Christianity for over 200 years was a persecuted religion. The Apostles “were the most abject of mankind.” People cursed them, and they blessed, They were considered the scum of the earth, the dregs of humanity. To this very day, this is still true. The only people who kill in the name of Christianity were people who abused it to bolster political power.

Islam was started by a man who united a nation and became a leader of a nation within his lifetime. One can claim that God must have been on his side. If he was, why establish a law system that executes a person for leaving? Why be afraid of Islamic apostates? Why prevent U.S. soldiers for bringing their bibles?

Without Islam, many earthly princes would have no power.
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is there something wrong with uniting arab?
is there something wrong with fighting Rome empire when it started to fight muslims?
for killing apostate is present in christianity too ,but in islam its justified
and it has condition that must be applied to do it

why killing apostate

Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?
 
hamba2han said:
Muslims absolutely do not agree with this because in Islam, proof is in fact obligatory.

The proof of the Creator’s existence is the creations and the ultimate proof of the Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) is the timeless miracle that he brought to humankind i.e. the Qur’an.

"Do they not consider the Qur’an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."… (Surah An-Nisa, 4:82)
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“in Islam, proof is in fact obligatory.”

Not so… Islam is based on two huge leaps of faith…
  1. that Muhammad was a prophet of the God of Abraham
  2. the Qur’an is the word of God
there is no proof, and never can be any proof, that these two items are true.
 
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