The Lost Generation of Catholics

[ComradeAndrei]

I fail to see how the trads are persecuted when I’m almost positive that it’s the other way around. I’ve seen far more “happy-clappy” references than I have to “toe-tags.”

An informal survey of responses on an internet forum is not a very good indicator of the state of things.

The Mass according to the '62 MR is a rare bird, I am lucky in Nebraska to have at least two '62 Masses that I could attend daily but most are not so fortunate. It is not because of “lack of interest” when you have some bishops “allowing” a 62 Mass but only on every third Thursday at 4:00 PM when there is a full moon and think that is “generous”. Or traditional NO Masses are few and far between and pretty hit and miss.

The general atmosphere is hostile to tradition. We have bishops that have the “over my dead body” attitude toward the Latin Mass and other traditional practices in the NO while a bishop like Msgr. Bruskewicz allows a guitar Mass in his own cathedral. I wonder who’s being more tolerant, the bishops who think they know what the people “want” and “don’t want” or the bishops who are willing to be truly pastoral on all sides.

 

[netmilsmom]

I fail to see how the traditionalists are persecuted when I’m almost positive that it’s the other way around. I’ve seen far more “happy-clappy” references than I have to “toe-tags.”

Give it time.

Community is important and the race to the parking lot after Mass doesn’t leave much time for socializing.

We have no socialization in our Holy Masses. Our “Handshake of Peace” is just that. No daisy chains, no running around to catch who you didn’t get and our wonderful priests (God Bless everyone of them and give them long life) stay right where they should behind the altar.
Now the really fun thing is to make it OUT to the parking lot. Our nave is packed, our hall overflowing. There is a really good chance that if one goes to the 9:30 Holy Mass that you won’t even make it to Nosh’s (the local parishioner owned diner) until 11:30. Then we continue to socialize well into the afternoon. You never know who will get the seats there but if, like us you are late because of choir practice, someone is willing to give up a table.
If it’s summer, a soccer game might start on the church grounds, or tag at least. That was of course before construction started on the new church and hall.
And above all, you should know that I have only been at this parish for two years. Two glorious blessed years! We play hard and pray hard.

I wish you the same.

 

[SMHW]

That said, I generally find the more-or-less modern music at my parish to be cringe-inducing.

It’s been my experience that the music in most parishes is cringe-inducing, irrespective of the year of composition or the instruments used to accompany it.

It is my suspicion that teens and young adults end up preferring mediocre music of a style different than that of the poor quality music to which they were subjected as children. A child who happens to grow up in one of those few parishes with good music will be more likely to love the music of his youth.

 

[anamchara]

That “happy catholic” term offends me as well, I enjoy the Mass, I enjoy shaking hands with my neighbor at Mass (after all, it’s a community event)
and I don’t think that makes my devotion any less valid.

Noo it doesn’t. I agree with you. My husband plays the guitar in our parish “strummer” at least once a month, what’s wrong with being happy? There are some very lovely hymns my husband sings. Sheesh, I guess they consider a good Catholic a angry and serious Catholic.

And what in heavens name is this hortizonal ****? What the?? I think I’m laughing…wait…ya I am.

 

[anamchara]

I fail to see how the traditionalists

are persecuted when I’m almost positive that it’s the other way around. I’ve seen far more “happy-clappy” references than I have to “toe-tags.”

Apparently we have nothing but disco parties in our parishes. I’ll have to tell my husband he could ask for tips now.

 

[netmilsmom]

Noo it doesn’t. I agree with you. My husband plays the guitar in our parish “strummer” at least once a month, what’s wrong with being happy? There are some very lovely hymns my husband sings. Sheesh, I guess they consider a good Catholic a angry and serious Catholic.

And what in heavens name is this hortizonal ****? What the?? I think I’m laughing…wait…ya I am.

There is nothing wrong with the way you worship. Every person who is going to mass is worshiping God in his or her own way.
The problem is when his or her own way is the only way offered. Look at his from the OP.

Can we have the crucifix back? And the decorations? The high altar? And the confessional where we can indulge in anomnimity? Can we save the band for after Mass - and have the organ returned to its place in the choir loft? (with a choir as well?) And the kneelers - I really enjoy kneeling when I pray and I don’t feel that my self-esteem has been damaged by such a humble posture - If anything it’s kept me from getting too full of my own liberated self importance!

Can we save the socializing for after Mass? Mass is a sacred time - and the half hour before Mass should be a quiet time to reflect and pray and prepare ourselves. Visiting is great fun - after Mass.

I think that there are more then enough Catholic parishes dedicated to teenagers and the folks from the 1960’s. Isn’t it time to move over, make some room for us…and share?
That’s the problem. Is there one parish in your Diocese that has this?
If you dismiss the concerns of this poster with a wave of your hand, you dismiss an entire group of Catholics. Catholics that are longing to be just as satisfied in their liturgy as you are.

 

[E.E.N.S]

When I was at the “Catholic Community” my Protestant hubby had no interest. Once I found the Historically Catholic parish, he became Catholic within a year.

I know the feeling, as I am a convert to the Faith, and the watered down Catholic parishes that tried to appease to the protestant mentality/majority never did a thing to attract me, what attracted/converted me was solid Catholic Truth.

 

[E.E.N.S]

And what in heavens name is this hortizonal ****? What the?? I think I’m laughing…wait…ya I am.

Generally speaking, the horizontal refers to the temporal quality of Mass, while the vertical refers to the eternal and transcendant quality of the Mass.

John Paul II’s speech to the bishops Ad Limina
When the bishops of the Northwest and Alaska were visiting Rome as a body, the holy Father gave them a theological discourse in liturgiology.2 After admitting that there have been problems, abuses and confusions about the changes in the liturgy in paragraph one, he calls for balance in the next paragraph of his treatise: “especially by entering more deeply in the Contemplative dimension of worship.” He does not leave it at that but then proceeds to say what it is: “. . . which includes the sense of awe, reverence and adoration which are fundamental attitudes in our relationship with God.” He does not lightly dismiss the contemplative dimension but then speaks of the liturgy as both “local and universal, time-bound and eternal, horizontal and vertical, subjective and objective.” With the emphasis on the word “and” one gets the impression that the latter word carries a greater weight than the previous word. So one’s worship is both in time and eternity because it is the “eternal worship of heaven.” Yes it builds up the community but it is also “the worship of the divine majesty.” For this latter reason, the liturgy of the Church transcends the local contribution because it is “the priestly act of Christ himself” and so in the final analysis the Mass does not ultimately depend on us. From these truths, the Pope derives another truth that the laws of the liturgy are not created by the priest or people. They are not inventors or creative producers because the core of the mystery of Christian worship “is the sacrifice of Christ offered to the father and the work of the risen Christ who sanctifies his people and through liturgical signs.” Hence it follows that “priests * can empty the liturgy of its true meaning or obscure its sacred character” if they fiddle around with it as if they were its creators or dominators rather than holding this treasure in trust from Christ.*

 

[netmilsmom]

Generally speaking, the horizontal refers to the temporal quality of Mass, while the vertical refers to the eternal and transcendant quality of the Mass.

John Paul II’s speech to the bishops Ad Limina
When the bishops of the Northwest and Alaska were visiting Rome as a body, the holy Father gave them a theological discourse in liturgiology.2 After admitting that there have been problems, abuses and confusions about the changes in the liturgy in paragraph one, he calls for balance in the next paragraph of his treatise: “especially by entering more deeply in the Contemplative dimension of worship.” He does not leave it at that but then proceeds to say what it is: “. . . which includes the sense of awe, reverence and adoration which are fundamental attitudes in our relationship with God.” He does not lightly dismiss the contemplative dimension but then speaks of the liturgy as both “local and universal, time-bound and eternal, horizontal and vertical, subjective and objective.” With the emphasis on the word “and” one gets the impression that the latter word carries a greater weight than the previous word. So one’s worship is both in time and eternity because it is the “eternal worship of heaven.” Yes it builds up the community but it is also “the worship of the divine majesty.” For this latter reason, the liturgy of the Church transcends the local contribution because it is “the priestly act of Christ himself” and so in the final analysis the Mass does not ultimately depend on us. From these truths, the Pope derives another truth that the laws of the liturgy are not created by the priest or people. They are not inventors or creative producers because the core of the mystery of Christian worship “is the sacrifice of Christ offered to the father and the work of the risen Christ who sanctifies his people and through liturgical signs.” Hence it follows that “priests * can empty the liturgy of its true meaning or obscure its sacred character” if they fiddle around with it as if they were its creators or dominators rather than holding this treasure in trust from Christ.*

Thank you!

 

[anamchara]

There is nothing wrong with the way you worship. Every person who is going to mass is worshiping God in his or her own way.
The problem is when his or her own way is the only way offered

Don’t say there’s nothing wrong with the way I worship after you have already made comments in the past about what you call “modern” parishes and as you call “Happy Catholics”

That’s the problem. Is there one parish in your Diocese that has this?
If you dismiss the concerns of this poster with a wave of your hand, you dismiss an entire group of Catholics. Catholics that are longing to be just as satisfied in their liturgy as you are.

I’ve read the OP and already gave my advice, our diocese has one sspx parish if that is what people want I don’t have issues with it as long as they don’t come on here and start belittling “modern” parishes.

 

[anamchara]

Generally speaking, the horizontal refers to the temporal quality of Mass, while the vertical refers to the eternal and transcendant quality of the Mass.

John Paul II’s speech to the bishops Ad Limina
When the bishops of the Northwest and Alaska were visiting Rome as a body, the holy Father gave them a theological discourse in liturgiology.2 After admitting that there have been problems, abuses and confusions about the changes in the liturgy in paragraph one, he calls for balance in the next paragraph of his treatise: “especially by entering more deeply in the Contemplative dimension of worship.” He does not leave it at that but then proceeds to say what it is: “. . . which includes the sense of awe, reverence and adoration which are fundamental attitudes in our relationship with God.” He does not lightly dismiss the contemplative dimension but then speaks of the liturgy as both “local and universal, time-bound and eternal, horizontal and vertical, subjective and objective.” With the emphasis on the word “and” one gets the impression that the latter word carries a greater weight than the previous word. So one’s worship is both in time and eternity because it is the “eternal worship of heaven.” Yes it builds up the community but it is also “the worship of the divine majesty.” For this latter reason, the liturgy of the Church transcends the local contribution because it is “the priestly act of Christ himself” and so in the final analysis the Mass does not ultimately depend on us. From these truths, the Pope derives another truth that the laws of the liturgy are not created by the priest or people. They are not inventors or creative producers because the core of the mystery of Christian worship “is the sacrifice of Christ offered to the father and the work of the risen Christ who sanctifies his people and through liturgical signs.” Hence it follows that “priests * can empty the liturgy of its true meaning or obscure its sacred character” if they fiddle around with it as if they were its creators or dominators rather than holding this treasure in trust from Christ.*

Thanks, tell ya what, why don’t you give me the link so I read it for myself.

 

[netmilsmom]

Don’t say there’s nothing wrong with the way I worship after you have already made comments in the past about what you call “modern” parishes and as you call “Happy Catholics”

Maybe it would be to your advantage to read some of my past posts instead of bristling at a terminology.
It will get you farther. I told you earlier in the thread that I would defend your way of worshiping. However, it seems that you do not feel the same.
My way or the highway. The innovator’s moto.

I’ve read the OP and already gave my advice, our diocese has one sspx parish if that is what people want I don’t have issues with it as long as they don’t come on here and start belittling “modern” parishes.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You are advising people in your diocese to break with Rome rather than accomodating them?
Wow, if you think the term “Happy Catholic” is offensive, you might be surprised what the Vatican would call you.

 

[anamchara]

Maybe it would be to your advantage to read some of my past posts instead of bristling at a terminology.

It will get you farther. I told you earlier in the thread that I would defend your way of worshiping. However, it seems that you do not feel the same.
My way or the highway.

 

[LilyM]

"hoosiertoo:

I fail to see how the traditionalists are persecuted when I’m almost positive that it’s the other way around. I’ve seen far more “happy-clappy” references than I have to “toe-tags.”

Give it time.

toe-tags

 

[netmilsmom]

What in heavens name are you talking about?? You asked me if our diocese accomodates different ways of worship, I answered your question. Don’t try and turn my words around and accuse me of encouraging people to break with Rome. That is totally ridiculous.

This is what in heavens name I am talking about.
Google SSPX.
You just sent those in your diocese who want a more traditional service to a schism sect not in union with Rome.

Want to rethink that?

 

[netmilsmom]

toe-tags

 

[anamchara]

This is what in heavens name I am talking about.
Google SSPX.
You just sent those in your diocese who want a more traditional service to a schism sect not in union with Rome.

Want to rethink that?

You are far too serious, I already know what the SSPX church is. You want tradition in it’s puriest forum, with no talking before or after mass. I think that seriously might be the only place you could find that. Btw they don’t allow altar girls either, just a thought.

 

[scared]

Has anyone thought that maybe there are less catholic worships because is it possible that many people have been very badly hurt by the church, it’s priests and clergy all the way to the pope? If the church tried to heal the wounds of those it has hurt it may find that pews will begin to grow for every hurt person that leaves usually means the family leaves as well.

Heal the hurt then maybe there is a chance, turn your back, or deny there is a problem or worse tell the person to suck it up and get over it and forgive the church or clergy you will only hurt more.

The church is in great need of healing and that must start from the top on down, until the Vatican and the Pope recongize the severe hurt that has happened there will be no healing. If it doesn’t start soon there will be more lost generations meaning less catholics to worship.

scared

 

[KathleenElsie]

Now you’re gonna get us all in trouble!!

Well add me to the “in trouble list” :bounce:

 

[Julianna]

ok, I’m ignorant…what are toe-tags, other than the obvious. I do watch CSI.