The Love Of The Father: John 3:16

[joe370]

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

A few verses later Jesus say:

*“For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.” *John 3:34

Here are some of those words of God, from the one whom God sent —Jesus the Bread of Life…

By John, who also was the one who penned these words, from the gospel of John:

Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

The food which was eaten, that spoils is a reference to the loaves; the food that is to be eaten, endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will provide?

*Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” *

So far, all that is required is to believe in the one the Father has sent, and NOT to work for food, that is eaten, that spoils, but for food, that is to be eaten, that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give everyone; It is the nourishment for the eternal soul. Please always give me this food!!!

*So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ *

The manna is interpreted literally; they want a miraculous sign on a par with that of the manna (I guess the miracle of the loaves wasn’t enough for them ) --that rained down in the desert, to which they ate.

*Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. *

Jesus’ Father, as opposed to Moses, fed the Old Covenant forefathers; Jesus’ Father will also feed everyone, in the New Covenant, the true bread from heaven, that sustains our spiritual bodies, as opposed to the bread sent to their forefathers, by Jesus, that sustained their carnal bodies. The manna which was eaten in the desert for 40 years, to sustain their mortal bodies, is a type (see typology) of Jesus, who is the true bread of life, which upon consumption, according to John, will lead us to eternal bliss with John and the rest of the Apostles who didn’t walk away from a very tough teaching, as the other followers did --as many do today --as I once did.

According to St. John, who penned the following words, we must eat Jesus’ flesh and drink His blood if we want eternal life --if we want to be raised when we take our last breath; they aren’t my words; they are Jesus’ words, penned by John:

*Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. *

*For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." *

The living bread of life is literally Jesus, [He] Who came down from His true Home, and this living bread is the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man provided when He spoke the words of institution, "And as they were eating (the traditional passover) He took bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them and said, ‘Take, this is my body.’ And He took a cup and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them and they drank all of it and He said to them, ‘This is my blood of the New Covenant which is poured out for many. Jesus’ Apostles, literally ate the bread, and drank the wine, which Jesus blessed. Just prior to eating the bread and drinking the wine, Jesus said, vis-a-vis the bread and wine: ‘Take, this is my body…’ 'This is my blood of the New Covenant… Why doesn’t Jesus say, this is a symbol of my body… this is a symbol of my blood…? Certainly, if He had just added that one word, all would be crystal clear to every Christian, the world over --today! Logically speaking, He didn’t use the word, because the bread and wine, once blessed by Jesus, through His holy instrument, the priest (who possesses absolutely zero power to do anything; It is through the Holy Spirit that the change is affected) —becomes His Body…becomes His Blood of the New Covenant If it was to be a mere symbol, I doubt our perfect Lord would have failed to mention that important nugget.

*“Sir,” they said, “from now on give us this bread.” Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.
*
See how clear the words of God, penned by John, can be discerned, when spoken in metaphor…

*But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." *

 

[joe370]

If we believe everything Jesus commands, including John 3:16 and John 6, and other commands, sprinkled throughout the N.T., then we shall have eternal life, and He will raise us up at the last day…

*At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” *

They question His Messiahship, and His true Origin…They ruminate…how can He be the bread that came down from heaven, which we are told we must eat, just as the bread that came down to our forefathers 4 --40 years, to which they ate?

*“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Jesus says He is the bread of life, as opposed to the bread their forefathers —who ate the bread, given to them by Jesus --yet died…They ate the bread and the bread sustained their mortal bodies…Jesus then says, But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. Jesus then says, I am the living bread that came down from heaven; If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. Jesus says we are to eat this living bread, in this world –RIGHT NOW, which will sustain our spiritual bodies in the next, just as the forefathers ate the bread that sustained the mortal body, which gave way to life in this world --ONLY. Therefore, if we eat and drink His Glorified flesh and blood, in this world, which again, is the living bread of life --we will never go hungry, we will never be thirsty in the new heavens and the new earth, where Jesus will be the only sustaining source of life that will be necessary.

*Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
*
Why are they arguing sharply??? No one will give an answer (that makes even a modicum of sense) --to this question either. Is it a) because they don’t understand the symbolic nature of Jesus’ words, or is b) just the opposite?

Jesus said to the grumblers:

*"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
*

 

[joe370]

According to the words of God, which were penned by St. John, how do we obtain eternal life? How do we remain in Jesus; how does Jesus remain in us, according to the Holy Bible?

*Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. *

Jesus lives because of the living Father; we too will live, in the next life, just as John, Peter, James --all of the people, past, present and future, that believed --that believe Jesus --if we obey all the words of God, not just John 3:16, according to the words penned by John…

*Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
*

I cannot refute the forceful, and conspicuously obvious logic of these straightforward words!

It’s cut and dried…Jesus lives because of the living Father; we too will live, in the next life, If we feed on Jesus, Who is the living bread, as opposed to the manna which yields nothing for the soul, just as His Father is the living Father. The grumblers forefathers ate the bread and died, but he/she who feeds on the living bread will live with Jesus forever, upon their last breath in this world. The bread of the old Covenant is juxtaposed with living bread of the New Covenant; both were to be eaten. One was for the mortal body; one was/is for the spiritual body. The bread of life, (Jesus Christ) --is living bread… We are to eat this living bread, if we want Jesus, who is the living bread, to dwell within us in this world, to raise us on our last days… P101, you and I are living creatures --right? You and I aren’t living symbols; we are real because we live, just as Jesus, who is the living bread, is real, in the bread and wine, once consecrated by the Holy Spirit, according to your bible.

*Many Disciples Desert Jesus On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” *

What makes this such a hard teaching? If Jesus is so obviously speaking in metaphor, as non-Catholics insist --why the confusion?

*Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?
*
Why are they offended? Should we be offended, by these words as well, the same words penned by John --the same words John believed in a literal sense?

*What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! *

Ascend to Heaven…If Jesus ascends to where He was before, then the carnal sense is nullified in toto…

*The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. *

Jesus lives, right now, on the spiritual plane; His Flesh and Blood—His Body, was assumed into Heaven. That is the Flesh and Blood we are commanded to eat; They couldn’t eat His carnal body, even if they wanted to. In what manner did He explain, to His Apostles --how are we to eat His flesh, if His flesh is no longer present? His Flesh, which is to be eaten, is the only Flesh that counts for everything, for everyone –right now. Our flesh counts for nothing; that was why the forefathers died, even though they ate the bread; It was not the living bread –it was not Jesus Body! When He tells all to eat His flesh and drink His blood, He is, again, telling us to eat and drink His Spiritual flesh and blood, for His carnal Body, again, was no where to be found, on that third day. Once Jesus ascended to His true Home, they would have recalled the words,

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life, and finally grasped the meaning of those words --that His teachings vis-a-vis the eating and drinking of His flesh and blood, were truly spiritual, not carnal. They could finally accept this tough teaching, for it no longer offended them --and everyone, closest to the Apostolic Age, believed…

*Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. *

Just as was the case then, it is still the case in the world today. Some believe, some don’t…
:sad_yes:

*“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.” *

The Apostles believed that the words, *For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him *–were to be interpreted in a concretely literal sense, otherwise they too would have walked away –right?

I believe the following words, penned by St. John…

whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life,

…just as I do the words, also penned and believed by St. John:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day…

Shouldn’t we believe/embrace all of the words of God? Cherry picking scripture, in my experience, always leads to division and dissension; I was once guilty of this strategy…but no more…

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I sincerely apologize … I mean, lets face it, the highest honor that can be conferred on any person is to say that Jesus loved him; and to say it with belief…Yet this is an honor which all may possess, but which none can inherit without his spirit and without knowing Him, and loving him. It is an honor which cannot be won by wealth or learning, by beauty or accomplishments, by rank or earthly honors, but only by the possession of a meek and quiet spirit

**
Hi Prot101,

As Fr John Corapi would say: That comes under the theological classification of happy horse manure!

Every Human being can say that Jesus loved Him. After all Jesus died for each one of us individually**. It was his gift. It is no honor for that to be said, it is just the plain truth!

It doesn’t have to be earned as you state . It is Jesus’ GIFT You don’t earn a gift! :tsktsk: you accept it or you decline it!

Please , don’t forget what Cinette said about being accurate! :aok:

Lies won’t make this thread any better, and No! I am not trying to pick on you,:console: but your editorials are inaccurate! :compcoff: They must not go unchallenged! Lies are lies! :takethat:

 

[joe370]

Hi Protestant101

I am currently doing a seminar on John 3:16 and I was discussing with a friend that you have opened a thread on the subject. Now I have told you that I have never met any SDAs. I know that here we have them because I have driven past a building which said “Seventh Day Adventists” outside.

I told my friend that you had opened this thread and that it would be interesting to see the responses and that it would illuminate me to the different thoughts and dimensions which the other posters bring to the thread. When my friend heard you were an SDA she said “But how can that be? The SDAs believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel! They don’t believe Jesus was the Son of God.”

So what is she saying? - that SDAs don’t believe in the Trinity? I am sure you believe in salvation from other threads. So how does this work P101? How can we be discussing the subject of this thread if you do not recognise Jesus as both human and Divine and the Son of the Father, who died on the cross for my sins and the sins of the world?

My friend has got to be mistaken. And I can’t wait to show her your response.

Blessings
Cinette

P101…do members of Seventh-day Adventist Church really believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel! They don’t believe Jesus was the Son of God?"

 

[joe370]

P101…you said…

" … The reason was simply that John, more than any of his fellow disciples, submitted to the influence of the perfect life of Jesus…

**John too, was a sinner, just as we all are --right? **

…and eventually came to understand and reflect the perfection of that life more fully than the the others…

**As Cinette said, where in the bible does it say that John came to understand and reflect the perfection of that life more fully than the the others? If that were true, surely Matthew 16: 15-18 would read like this: **

*But what about you?" he asked. “Who do you say I am?” [John] answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, John son of Zebedee, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you [John] the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you [John] bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” *

**Is that a fair assessment?
**
John was thus better qualified than the other disciples to appreciate the magnitude of divine love and to explain it to his fellow men." …

**If that is true, then why did Jesus give Simon renamed kepha alone…the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and tell him alone, whatever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever he looses on earth will be loosed in heaven." **

**That sure sounds like a hefty burden to bear…that sort of authority should really be wielded by someone who would “eventually come to understand and reflect the perfection of Jesus’ life more fully than the the others,” shouldn’t it? **

Perhaps…

 

[joe370]

[Protestant101 I love the Bible accounts of John and Jesus. It is obvious they had a special relationship, and when John said “God so loved” it meant “God is love.” And “love never fails.” I don’t know how to get into any controversy about such GOOD NEWS!

**Hey P101…

Did/does Jesus have a special relationship with Peter, renamed kepha?

BTW, the next phrase in Jo 3:16, after “God so loved” is “the world.” I would love to hear comments and thoughts about this!!

**Nothing needs to be added; God loves the world…thank God …
**

There’s nothing worse than a liar who calls themself “Christian.”

I agree! With that said, Who or What has the right to determine who is and who isn’t a liar? Certainly not you or me, or anyone here at CAF…

**Peter as the shepherd of Jesus’ Apostolic Church, alone, according to the bible, was given the keys of Jesus’ Kingdom, here on earth, was he not? Why was that? If you don’t mind me asking, Do you believe that Jesus’ established apostolic church circa 33 AD is in fact His Kingdom on earth, with Him as King and Savior of said Kingdom??? **

…And I tell you that you are Simon renamed kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you [kepha] the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you [kepha] bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

**Aren’t keys a sign of authority?
**
**Doesn’t the bible tell us to take unresolved issues to the church? If so, which church???
**
***"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. *If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

Which church in the world today existed when Jesus said to His established church:

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

**

No one, other than Christians that belong to the C.C., will give me an answer…why do you think that is??? :banghead:

 

[Cinette]

*To All on this thread.

I have been very happy to debate on CAF. Protestants and other Christians and non Christians gather to discourse on a lot of different topics.

Naturally, when people of different faiths and denominations debate there will be disagreements and sometimes it can get heated. That is why we should pray for one another.

Sometimes these debates can lead to conversions and that is great but it is essentially the work of the Holy Spirit. Obviously nonCatholics would like to convert Catholics – that is understandable. At the end of the day we must all analyse, reflect, share, debate, pray, give references etc in pursuit of truth.

We should always endeavour to be respectful to one another as well as prayerful.

In the final analysis whether the debates lead to conversion or not, all sides come away with a better understanding of each other.

There will be some posters who are blunt and this can be offensive and is something which we should try to avoid in my opinion. We don’t want to hurt and offend even if the truth hurts. If we want to state the truth then let us do so by quoting verses from the bible – let the bible “offend”. Here is an example:

2 Peter 3:16
“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction.”

Let others fight with St Peter if they must but not with us. We are off the hook.

I do not envy the role of Moderators – it must be difficult to harmonize. So let us make their job easier by trying to be harmonious ourselves.

After all – we are supposed to love one another. Jesus said so.

I hope we can all co-operate in love with one another. We are going to disagree - that is certain - but that makes the debate more interesting.

God bless us all
Cinette *

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

The very core of love seems to keep coming up as “giving”. God GAVE His Son, His Son GAVE His life, and we have no greater love than that we GIVE our lives for someone. This act of giving on the cross is the greatest act of giving. Jesus so love the world, each one of us, that He took ous sins upon Him on the cross, which caused such pain in His seperation from His Father because of our sins, the He cries out “Why have you forsaken me…Why have you abandoned me?”

And yet even in that feeling of total forsakeness, total abandonment, total aloneness…Jesus’ love for us is so strong that He does not give up His love for us, but moves forward, totally trusts God His Father, commends His Spirit to God, and proceeds to offer Himself for us by saying “It is finished”.

How many of us have that Godly love, that when we feel abandoned and forsaken by those we love, that we can commit our spirits to God, and go beyond our feelings of forsakeness and GIVE love to those from whom we feel no love…only abandonment?

And that is the Godly love we should all have as our goal. I don’t think I’m at that point…but what a day it will be when we get to that point. It would change the world just as Jesus has changed the world.

Love can only be understood by understanding the cross and that magnificent indescribable act of love revealed in God GIVING.

God bless all!!!

 

[benedictus2]

“Whom Jesus loved.” It was John’s special joy that Jesus loved him. But we must keep in mind that John was the one who penned these words, and it may not be that he was actually “better” than Peter in Jesus’ eyes; it is just John who felt this love of Jesus so intensely. I think as I look at all the verses where he describes himself as “whom Jesus loved;” he also knew how that Christ, as the Son of God, and surety of his people, loved all of His true disciples alike; not one more than the other; but as Son of Man, Jesus had a distinctive affection for John, and therefore admitted him near his person like this, and was very familiar with him and in this case the appellation is more tender and honorable than being called any mere name. John was admitted to a special friendship, perhaps, because the natural disposition or character of our Saviour was more nearly like the amiableness and mildness of John than any of the other disciples. We all know how impetuous Peter could be at times!

John - The Disciple Jesus Loved. Peter - The Disciple who Loved Jesus.

Damasus Winzen gave the above contrast of the two disciples.

And I think the emphasis on John as being the disciple Jesus loved has a special significance when you look at it from the point of the Cross.

At the cruficixion He entrusted the disciple He loved to His Mother. So when you think of it, because in this scene, John represents us, you could say that WE are the dsiciples He loves and that is why He entrusted us to His Mother.

Now the aim is to be like Peter. The disciple who loved Jesus. The disciple who after denying Jesus broke down in remorse but never ceased to follow Him. Who after realizing He was on the shore jumped from the boat to go to Him.

And Jesus has a special love for Him because He himself said that He prayed for Peter, so that when Peter has overcome his trials he will strengthen the others.

We have to realize that we John, that we are loved. And in realizing this, we become Peter,the one who loves Jesus and that by his grace, we can in our little lives strengthen those around us and help tend his flock.

There is much to learn from Peter on how we can love Jesus.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

…
After all – we are supposed to love one another. Jesus said so.

**Hi Cinette,

Actually Jesus told His followers to love one another! That would be only the Christians/Catholics he was talking to wouldn’t it?

Jeanne, My love :flowers: you are preaching relativism! :bigyikes:

“Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. … Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and ‘swept along by every wind of teaching,’ looks like the only attitude acceptable to today’s standards.” - Pope BenedictXVI

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.” - Pope BenedictXVI

Click on: Catholics Only!**

I am sorry to say, but Protestants and other groups like the SDA and Mormons are not Christians. Their groups are only counterfeit copies of Jesus’ real church! Their beliefs are not similar to ours! Their practices are different and alien to the truths Jesus taught. Many of them are in direct opposition to Jesus and His church! They have no right or authority to use the name “christian” they are strangers to Jesus’ ways!

…I hope we can all co-operate in love with one another. We are going to disagree - that is certain - but that makes the debate more interesting.

**Jeanne, Wouldn’t that be nice? The lambs laying down with the Lions! Reminds me of 1 Peter 5:8.! Yea you are right, let the scriptures speakthe truth for us!

Of course, we have to pray for their conversion! They are still Children of God, even if they don’t follow Christs real teachings. They still deserve our love and prayers!

God Bless **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

The very core of love seems to keep coming up as “giving”. God GAVE His Son, His Son GAVE His life, and we have no greater love than that we GIVE our lives for someone. This act of giving on the cross is the greatest act of giving. Jesus so love the world, each one of us, that He took ous sins upon Him on the cross, which caused such pain in His seperation from His Father because of our sins, the He cries out “Why have you forsaken me…Why have you abandoned me?”

And yet even in that feeling of total forsakeness, total abandonment, total aloneness…Jesus’ love for us is so strong that He does not give up His love for us, but moves forward, totally trusts God His Father, commends His Spirit to God, and proceeds to offer Himself for us by saying “It is finished”.

How many of us have that Godly love, that when we feel abandoned and forsaken by those we love, that we can commit our spirits to God, and go beyond our feelings of forsakeness and GIVE love to those from whom we feel no love…only abandonment?

And that is the Godly love we should all have as our goal. I don’t think I’m at that point…but what a day it will be when we get to that point. It would change the world just as Jesus has changed the world.

Love can only be understood by understanding the cross and that magnificent indescribable act of love revealed in God GIVING.

God bless all!!!
**
Hi Pat,

Amen!** Well said! :clapping: :clapping: As always!

 

[Cinette]

Quote : RealCatholicgk

*I am sorry to say, but Protestants and other groups like the SDA and Mormons are not Christians. Their groups are only counterfeit copies of Jesus’ real church! Their beliefs are not similar to ours! Their practices are different and alien to the truths Jesus taught. Many of them are in direct opposition to Jesus and His church! They have no right or authority to use the name “christian” they are strangers to Jesus’ ways!

…I hope we can all co-operate in love with one another. We are going to disagree - that is certain - but that makes the debate more interesting.

Jeanne, Wouldn’t that be nice? The lambs laying down with the Lions! Reminds me of 1 Peter 5:8.! Yea you are right, let the scriptures speakthe truth for us! *

I know what relativism is and I do not subscribe to it.

I don’t believe in getting into the boxing ring with people of other faiths. In conversation with an ex SDA recently I learned that there are some things in the SDA faith which is good and that they have great ferver. That is good. I do no believe in overlooking the good.

If we are to debate with people of different faiths which are so different from ours we cannot do so by hitting them over the head with the Catholic Church.

I think we need to learn to understand them and hope they will do likewise. Only then can we advance in the debate.

Sure there are SDAs whose agenda leaves much to be desired. It is true that they HATE the Catholic Church with a passion. Perhaps they are here on CAF to make mischief and to try to convert us. Let them! Read Psalm 27:

*The Lord is my light and my salvation;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold
of my life;
of whom shall I be afraid?

When evildoers assail me
to devour my flesh -
my adversaries and foes -
they shall stumble and fall.

Though an army encamp
against me,
my heart shall not fear;
though war rise up against me,
yet I will be confident.

One thing I asked of the Lord,
that will I seek after;
to live in the house of the Lord
all the days of my life,
to behold the beauty of the Lord,
and to inquire in his temple.

For he will hide me in his shelter
in the day of trouble;
he will conceal me under the
cover of his tent;
he will set me high on a rock.*…

Realcatholicgk - you have your own particular style which is not popular.

It took me a while to get used to you.

Yes you do speak the truth but you use it violently. I have a problem with that.:tsktsk:

Be loving. Jesus is loving.

Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy. (Lev 19.2)

I think you should take a deep breath and run around the block (or the lake) before you respond to any post. Then, get on your knees and ask God to guide your hand and your tongue!

God love you
Cinette

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I know what relativism is and I do not subscribe to it. … I don’t believe in getting into the boxing ring with people of other faiths … In conversation with an ex SDA recently I learned that there are some things in the SDA faith which is good and that they have great ferver. That is good. I do no believe in overlooking the good.

**

Hi Cinette,

To accept their beliefs as “valid” in any way is part of relativism! **

**There is nothing wrong with 95% of “any” group of people. I have been around the world and can declaire that a Truth.
I had, and still have some very good friends, who are Mormons. I love their home life, their sense of community. It is their distorted beliefs that are damning them, not their life style! Same with SDAs! Daily I pray the rosary and divine chaplet daily for all sinners and the end of abortion.

I love all people, of all faiths! But just because they are good people doesn’t mean we should allow them go to hell! **

If we are to debate with people of different faiths which are so different from ours we cannot do so by hitting them over the head with the Catholic Church.

I will not lie, I don’t hit them over the head with the Catholic church, I hit them with the truths that they deny!

I think we need to learn to understand them and hope they will do likewise. Only then can we advance in the debate.

I understand them. Much better then you seem to or they themselves do! They think they are just practicing Christianity in another form or denomination than we are. That isn’t so.:dts: They are not following Christ. They are not Christians! It is that simple it is that true! Read the scriptures, I don’t lie, I don’t play games with Satan. He is too dangerous

Sure there are SDAs whose agenda leaves much to be desired. It is true that they HATE the Catholic Church with a passion. Perhaps they are here on CAF to make mischief and to try to convert us. Let them! Read Psalm 27:

*The Lord is my light and my salvation;
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold
of my life;
of whom shall I be afraid?

When evildoers assail me
to devour my flesh -
my adversaries and foes -
they shall stumble and fall.

Though an army encamp
against me,
my heart shall not fear;
though war rise up against me,
yet I will be confident.

One thing I asked of the Lord,
that will I seek after;
to live in the house of the Lord
all the days of my life,
to behold the beauty of the Lord,
and to inquire in his temple.

For he will hide me in his shelter
in the day of trouble;
he will conceal me under the
cover of his tent;
he will set me high on a rock.
Realcatholicgk - you have your own particular style which is not popular.

**Cinette - It is with me! That is all that is important to me! **

It took me a while to get used to you. Yes you do speak the truth but you use it violently. I have a problem with that

**
I do not speak the truth violently. The truth is the truth! You have never hesitated to tell me your opinion, and I still don’t care. **

Be loving. Jesus is loving.

**Oh, I am loving! Duh… I am attempting to save these people’s souls! They deserve our prayers and our correction to their false beliefs! You must not agree with lies! Don’t you notice that you have a tendency to do that? That is the reason I accuse you of relativism! There is Truth it should not be swept aside in the name of charity. To be truthful is so much more charitable then to lie, or agree with lies! **

Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy. (Lev 19.2)

**My goal is to become holy! The Holy Spirit is working on me!
As Fr John Corapi says: “The Holy Spirit is a divine artist; we’re like a lump of clay. We’ve heard that analogy that we’re clay. We carry this treasure within us in earthen vessels. We know an artist, a sculptor can work in clay. Clay is soft. Clay is malleable. Clay can be easily formed. The Holy Spirit is a divine artist. Are you clay? Or are you marble? Artists can work with marble too. Marble’s very cold and hard though. How does an artist work with marble? He chips away at it. You’ve been wondering why God’s been chipping away at you? It’s painful to lose pieces of yourself isn’t it? Gotta do it. There are things in us that have to go. You can’t be egocentric, you’ve got to be Christocentric. You can’t be self-centered and hope to be sanctified. You’ve got to be centered on Christ. It’s a work of the Holy Spirit…”’

I could not have said it better or more sincerely!

**

I think you should take a deep breath and run around the block (or the lake) before you respond to any post. Then, get on your knees and ask God to guide your hand and your tongue!

**
I actually do pray as I write each posting. I also reread every post and pray before I send it. I pray that God gives me the words HE wants said and that the truth shall be seen and understood by the people who will read them. I am not the most articulate or intelligent one here. I need God to use my love for others to save their souls!

Now my sister, get on your knees and beg God to forgive you for judging another person !**

God love you

**God loves all of us! That is why he came down and died so that believing in Him we could have eternal life!

God Bless **

 

[willingheart]

Wow - how sad that what started out as a beautiful, devotional meditation on the love of the Heavenly Father has so quickly deteriorated into this mess. :dts:

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things.

It was a good try, Protestant 101.

 

[Cinette]

Wow - how sad that what started out as a beautiful, devotional meditation on the love of the Heavenly Father has so quickly deteriorated into this mess. :dts:

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things.

It was a good try, Protestant 101.

Dear Willingheart - that is a great verse you quoted.

Why don’t you make a contribution to the topic - we welcome all willing contributors who have anything to share.

Blessings
Cinette

 

[joe370]

Wow - how sad that what started out as a beautiful, devotional meditation on the love of the Heavenly Father has so quickly deteriorated into this mess. :dts:

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things.

It was a good try, Protestant 101.

**It can be easy to allow our buttons to be pushed; even Jesus became angry when they were trading in the Temple. However, if you think about it, it can really only lead down one path…the primrose path…That just happens to be the name of my street, so I am reminded of what not to do, everyday…LOL
**

**Heck…all anyone needs to do is read this passage before you start a post: **

**“A good person brings forth good out of a store of goodness, but an evil person brings forth evil out of a store of evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt. 12:33
**

**God bless to all… **

 

[rinnie]

Here is what it means to me. Anyone who has loved someone, especially a child know’s that there is nothing, every like that love.

That child is everything to you. It is your life, and without them you have no life. And to love someone that much and turn around and give that up for us. Everyone of us. That is the Love that is beyond understanding.

It should make everyone in this world know, that you are so loved, that no matter what happens in this world can never take away that Love that God has for each and everyone of us.

It should and can be enough to help you through anything, just to know that I am that special. There is no one like each and every one of us to God. And all he asks in return is for us to just love eachother.

God=Love=Jesus=Family= All of us! Someday we will all be together and know that Love and see that Love and share in that Love forever and ever. No end. Now thats awesome!

 

[Protestant101]

Cinette;4827824:

Sure there are SDAs whose agenda leaves much to be desired. It is true that they HATE the Catholic Church with a passion. Perhaps they are here on CAF to make mischief and to try to convert us. Let them! Read Psalm 27:

I find that the direction Catholics have tried to take here is disgusting. And the excuses made for same, even worse.

 

[joe370]

I find that the direction Catholics have tried to take here is disgusting. And the excuses made for same, even worse.

HEY P101…

TO WHICH DIRECTION ARE YOU REFERRING? TO WHICH EXCUSESELLIPTICAL EXERCISE ARE YOU REFERRING? REMEMBER, WE ARE ALL FALLIBLE HUMAN BEINGS PRONE TO SAY THINGS, WE WISH WE DIDN’T, AS I AM SURE YOU CAN RELATE. HOWEVER, SHOULDN’T WE ATTEELLIPTICAL EXERCISEMPT TO FORGIVE, AS JESUS FORGIVES ME…AS JESUS FORGIVES YOU, INSTEAD OF HARBORING ILL-WILL?

“A good person brings forth good out of a store of goodness, but an evil person brings forth evil out of a store of evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt. 12:33