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joe370
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EXCUSE THE INSERTION OF “ELLIPTICAL EXERCISE;” MY COMPUTER IS ABOUT TO CRASH, AND IT COPIED IT FROM ANOTHER LETTER I WAS WRITING… 
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Protestant101
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You shouldn’t tell people how they feel; you should ask them. “Ill will” is not even close to my conclusions on this thread. My comments were an observation, and a conclusion, not a statement of felt emotions. But it does look like this thread is over. Catholic participants do not want to discuss the OP. The evidence is provided by them, not me. Perhaps your “ill will” was misplaced?HEY P101…
TO WHICH DIRECTION ARE YOU REFERRING? TO WHICH EXCUSESELLIPTICAL EXERCISE ARE YOU REFERRING? REMEMBER, WE ARE ALL FALLIBLE HUMAN BEINGS PRONE TO SAY THINGS, WE WISH WE DIDN’T, AS I AM SURE YOU CAN RELATE. HOWEVER, SHOULDN’T WE ATTEELLIPTICAL EXERCISEMPT TO FORGIVE, AS JESUS FORGIVES ME…AS JESUS FORGIVES YOU, INSTEAD OF HARBORING ILL-WILL?
“A good person brings forth good out of a store of goodness, but an evil person brings forth evil out of a store of evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt. 12:33
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Patrick_Murebil
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Protestant101
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Yes, I remember reading this passage and after seeing that the idea was not new or unique to just one writer, I did some further research, as evidenced in my posts. To me, even without that quote, the question is settled. John is equal to Peter in terms of “status” with Jesus. Peter has absolutely nothing superior in position to any other disciple.
We need to recognize John talked of The father’s love in a way that Peter never once did. There was something special there between him and Jesus.
In recognition of the OP, this is an important point because everyone from every denomination uses Jo.3:16 a lot more freely than they do anything about Peter. That can be found in the Bible
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Problem: it does not mean anything - Christians may think God loves them, but he has a mighty odd way of showing it. It’s just a lot of words that do not correspond to anything real. To believe it, is to lose the ability to tell reality from fantasy, because faith means ignoring appearances; that is a recipe for unending self-delusion.
And as if that were not enough, God’s love becomes meaningless when applied to the oppressor as well as to the oppressed, the torturer as well those he tortures, the murderer as well as those he murders. Suppose you’re in Chile under the Pinochet dictatorship: if you’re among “the disappeared”, and are having electrodes applied to your privates - where is this God of love ? If, electrodes notwithstanding,the tortured continues to believe in God’s love; how does this love apply to the torturer ? To speak of God’s love in such circumstances is to use words meaninglessly. It verges on the obscene.
And, people may think God loves them - but plenty of other Christians may have other ideas about them. Christians have a long history of damning one another. If they are Christians, this damning of those whom God supposedly loves should be impossible.
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Cinette
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The fundamental aspect of this thread is God’s love for us all. Here are some more verses for us to keep close to our hearts.
“…….And, the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
*“God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him.” *1 John 4:9
“In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loves us and sent His Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.” 1 John 4:10
“ He will feed his flock like a shepherd, He swill carry the lambs in his arms, holding them close to his heart. He will gently lead the mother sheep with their young.” Is 40:11
“It was I who created your inmost self and put you together in your mother’s womb. I know you through and through from having watched your bones take shape.” Psalm 139:14-15
“Give thanks to the Lord for He is good, His steadfast love for you endures forever.” Psalm 118:1
“He covers you with His feathers and you find shelter underneath His wings.” Psalm 91:4
“I led you with reins of kindness, with leading strings of love.” Hosea 11:4
“and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.” Ephesians 5:2
*“You are God’s work of art, created in Christ Jesus to live the good life as from the beginning H had meant us to live it.” * Ephesians 2:10
*“but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loves us (5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ…” *Ephesians 2:4-5
*“But God proves His love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.” *Romans 5:8
*“We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us – and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.” *1 John 2:26
*“For I am convinced that neither death or life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” *Romans 8:38-39
LOVE - love is* E V E R Y T H I N G*
GOD IS LOVE!
“…….And, the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
*“God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him.” *1 John 4:9
“In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loves us and sent His Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.” 1 John 4:10
“ He will feed his flock like a shepherd, He swill carry the lambs in his arms, holding them close to his heart. He will gently lead the mother sheep with their young.” Is 40:11
“It was I who created your inmost self and put you together in your mother’s womb. I know you through and through from having watched your bones take shape.” Psalm 139:14-15
“Give thanks to the Lord for He is good, His steadfast love for you endures forever.” Psalm 118:1
“He covers you with His feathers and you find shelter underneath His wings.” Psalm 91:4
“I led you with reins of kindness, with leading strings of love.” Hosea 11:4
“and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.” Ephesians 5:2
*“You are God’s work of art, created in Christ Jesus to live the good life as from the beginning H had meant us to live it.” * Ephesians 2:10
*“but God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loves us (5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ…” *Ephesians 2:4-5
*“But God proves His love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us.” *Romans 5:8
- “For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.” *2 Cor 5:14
*“We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us – and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.” *1 John 2:26
*“For I am convinced that neither death or life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” *Romans 8:38-39
LOVE - love is* E V E R Y T H I N G*
GOD IS LOVE!
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Cinette
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w o w!!!
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Cinette
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Gottle of Geer!
And YOU think that it is “a mighty odd way of showing it.”?? Are you &^%$#@)(*&??? Have you not heard of Jesus’ death and resurrection? Have you not heard of the scourging of Jesus? Have your not heard of Him being spat upon and crowned with thorns? Have you not heard of the cruxification? From what planet do you come? Can you read? Have you not heard of the Bible?
It’s just a lot of words that do not correspond to anything real. To believe it, is to lose the ability to tell reality from fantasy, because faith means ignoring appearances; that is a recipe for unending self-delusion.)(&^%$#@(*&^%!!!
And as if that were not enough, god’s love becomes meaningless when applied to the oppressor as well as to the oppressed, the torturer as well those he tortures, the murderer as well as those he murders. Despite all the horrors of our sin God’s mercy is so great that he extends it to ALL people. No matter what you have done, there is still a chance of repentance. We do not always know what leads people to commit crime. Sometimes it is something outside of themselves – that is why God tells us not to judge.
Suppose you’re in chile under the pinochet dictatorship: If you’re among “the disappeared”, and are having electrodes applied to your privates - where is this god of love ? If, electrodes notwithstanding, the tortured continues to believe in god’s love; how does this love apply to the torturer ? Have you not heard of Jesus’ suffering? Are you not aware that he too was tortured? Would this not shock you also?
To speak of god’s love in such circumstances is to use words meaninglessly. It verges on the obscene. Where is your power of analysis? Where is your trust in Almighty God? Have you not heard of free will? Yes man’s inhumanity to man knows no bounds but this is not God’s fault.
And, people may think god loves them - but plenty of other christians may have other ideas about them. Christians have a long history of damning one another. If they are christians, this damning of those whom god supposedly loves should be impossible. Again, man’s inhumanity to man is horrific but have you never encountered love? Have you ever heard of the suffering and sacrifice of man for man? Have you ever heard of Maximillian Kolbe? Have you ever heard of Christian martyrs?
Perhaps you need to read the Bible and the History of humanity.
problem: It does not mean anything - christians may think god loves them, but he has a mighty odd way of showing it.
John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but may have eternal life.”*And YOU think that it is “a mighty odd way of showing it.”?? Are you &^%$#@)(*&??? Have you not heard of Jesus’ death and resurrection? Have you not heard of the scourging of Jesus? Have your not heard of Him being spat upon and crowned with thorns? Have you not heard of the cruxification? From what planet do you come? Can you read? Have you not heard of the Bible?
It’s just a lot of words that do not correspond to anything real. To believe it, is to lose the ability to tell reality from fantasy, because faith means ignoring appearances; that is a recipe for unending self-delusion.)(&^%$#@(*&^%!!!
And as if that were not enough, god’s love becomes meaningless when applied to the oppressor as well as to the oppressed, the torturer as well those he tortures, the murderer as well as those he murders. Despite all the horrors of our sin God’s mercy is so great that he extends it to ALL people. No matter what you have done, there is still a chance of repentance. We do not always know what leads people to commit crime. Sometimes it is something outside of themselves – that is why God tells us not to judge.
Suppose you’re in chile under the pinochet dictatorship: If you’re among “the disappeared”, and are having electrodes applied to your privates - where is this god of love ? If, electrodes notwithstanding, the tortured continues to believe in god’s love; how does this love apply to the torturer ? Have you not heard of Jesus’ suffering? Are you not aware that he too was tortured? Would this not shock you also?
To speak of god’s love in such circumstances is to use words meaninglessly. It verges on the obscene. Where is your power of analysis? Where is your trust in Almighty God? Have you not heard of free will? Yes man’s inhumanity to man knows no bounds but this is not God’s fault.
And, people may think god loves them - but plenty of other christians may have other ideas about them. Christians have a long history of damning one another. If they are christians, this damning of those whom god supposedly loves should be impossible. Again, man’s inhumanity to man is horrific but have you never encountered love? Have you ever heard of the suffering and sacrifice of man for man? Have you ever heard of Maximillian Kolbe? Have you ever heard of Christian martyrs?
Perhaps you need to read the Bible and the History of humanity.
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Protestant101
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You asked where God is when these atrocities you mentioned take place? He is in the same place He was when His own Son was killed.
I have been on my death bed 7 times already in my short life, but I could never ask this kind of question about God; not even when I had 50% of my body seriously burned. The reason; I think is because of a very special nurse, who led me to Jesus; and to fellowship with Him in our Church. The kind of love and tenderness she gave during my care was more than any I had ever seen, and it was enough to convince me that God was real; that He loved even me, and that He could use me to tell others that God does care; and He can help in time of trouble.
NOTE: square brackets in scripture quote above are mine
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benedictus2
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Wow! That must have been pretty amazing!!
Having been in that situation, please pray for the burn victims of the terrible fire that just went through Australia. That those who do not believe in God may come to know Him, and that those whose faith maybe be wavering because of this trial may be strengthened.
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Protestant101
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I will pray for them; because I know exactly what they are going through. Those burns were the most amazing thing in my life for so many reasons…when I was at my worst, when everyone thought I would die, when I wanted to die, when I was burned so badly my own mother didn’t recognize me the first time she walked past my bed, that is when Jesus touched me…We may truly praise Him FOR HE IS ABLE.
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benedictus2
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That will have to be one of the most moving posts I have ever read. There is this line in a song called “Strong and Constant” that goes “through your pain you will discover me” and that is so true.
We preach Christ cruficifed. Without the cross, no resurrection.
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Protestant101
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I know some have questioned where I got what I have said about John and his relationship with Jesus, but I have a book in my lap right now, written by a Catholic nun (Barbara Dent); and it is called “My Only Friend Is Darkness.” It is a wonderful, and insightful book. It is about “Living The Night Of Faith With St. John Of The Cross.” I have taken great encouragement from many sources, and the relationship that John had with Jesus was so special, that He reached even me, with Jo.3:16. The really interesting thing about Micah 7:8 is how it says “when I sit in darkness.” Not while trying to get out. Not after I get out. But while I am in the very middle of it. When I have time; I will share a few things from this book here, as it focuses heavily on her reflections of John’s writings in the Bible, and his relationship with Jesus. Books like this have been an important part of my recovery and ongoing, much needed encouragement in Christ.
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benedictus2
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Beautiful!
You should read St John of the Cross. He is not an easy read but worth it.
Gerald May wrote a book on St John’s Dark Night of the Soul. May makes John of the Cross more accessible to modern readers in this book.
When I was young and first come accross the refernce to the dark night ot he soul I was quite frightened by it. I even prayed that I should not have to go through it. But now I realize it is purifying and liberating. And those who truly follow Christ will pass through it.
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Cinette
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Benedictus I received an email from a friend who has just read Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle and he says it has transformed him and his family. Highly recommended.
I think you might be familiar with the book. What is your impression?
Cheers
Jeanne
I think you might be familiar with the book. What is your impression?
Cheers
Jeanne
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Protestant101
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I am curious why you say St John of The Cross “is not an easy read?” Can I buy a book called that, or is this an author we are talking about who has written a number of books? (shows how much I know) . I actually made a mistake when I referenced the book above, authored by Barbara Dent. She was actually an English School teacher, (retired) in New Zealand…She is a “Secular Carmelite,” whatever that is. For years, this book has been one that I have always enjoyed; not too many really know what it is to enter The Night Of Faith; but this woman definitely does, and reflects healing, guidance, and direction for others throughout the book.
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happilycatholic
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When I read, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.” My first thought is the distinct absence of terms in in that passage.
God’s love is eternal and all-encompassing. No matter who you are, what you’ve done or will do, God loves YOU. He will love every human being ever born and has done so since Adam. The World All of it, for all eternity.
W O W
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Protestant101
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Yes! Amen! And considering what I am like sometimes, it is not just good news; it is AMAZING! “For God so loved,” is the kind of love that is always going to amaze us!When I read, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.” My first thought is the distinct absence of terms in in that passage.
God’s love is eternal and all-encompassing. No matter who you are, what you’ve done or will do, God loves YOU. He will love every human being ever born and has done so since Adam. The World All of it, for all eternity.
W O W
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benedictus2
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St John of the Cross is a Carmelite who along with St Teresa of Avila reformed the Carmelite order in the 1500s and started the Discalced branch of that order.
They are both mystics and Doctors of the Church.
The reason I say it is not an easy read is because the topic is mystical and those not exposed to mystical writing will find it difficult.
But if you do have a spark of the mystic in you, you will simply melt and get lost in the text.
St John of the Cross is also a poet and has written beautiful poems about the love affair between God and man.
Here is a link to the Discalced Carmelite Order webpage on the Dark Night. It is a very good page as it goes into quite indepth detail to explain John’s writing.
http://www.ocd.or.at/ics/john/dn.html
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Protestant101
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Thanks; I will be interested to read it - can you tell me what is meant by “mystic” or “mystical?” Or, how are you intending it to be seen?
Are these Carmelites, actually barefoot, as in “Discalced;” or does this word refer to something else?
I noticed that in the first chapter of this book at the link you gave; it talks about not being honest with “your confessor;” and I presume that this refers more to the situation where the church member is confessing to their Catholic Priest, but there is a lesson here which goes beyond that to our relationship with God, and what kind we have. Are we honest with Him? Do we come to Him just as we are? or do we make ourselves a certain way first to try and impress Him?
I do know from personal experience that in this “Night Of Faith;” God has a thousand ways to get us out of the artificial mode with Him. We tend to be more real with God then; and He can then be more real with/to us.
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