The main source of the Immaculate Conception

[Pai_Nosso]

I have no answer for this. I also wonder if not believing this particular dogma is an impediment to salvation especially since it was seemingly not a dogma for 1800 years.

I also wonder, if these Marian dogmas are so important then why wasn’t it literally told in the bible. Mary gets little mention in the Gospel and hardly says a word.

I really don’t know how important any of this is for salvation. It doesn’t seem to have much of anything to do with the ‘love God and love neighbor’ commandments.

I know what you mean. Im over here scratching my head as to why as well. It’s irrelevant. If you take a close look at the push for this 5th Marian dogma you see that it’s more of a political battle than divine revelation from God. Lobby groups putting pressure on the Vatican to declare this dogma.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

I know someone who will refuse to eat at a restaurant ever again if they mess up his order or are out of something on the menu, so, yes, I understand there are a small number of people who blame an institution for the sins of an individual within that institution. On the other hand, I do not think that way and know more people who are able to separate the failings of a person from the institution.

Almost… I don’t blame the institution. It’s more like doubt in the claim that the Holy Spirit always guides the church given that it didn’t guide these events/people/decisions. Im not blaming, criticizing or attacking anyone. It’s my own incredulity that is in question.

That person you know sounds like me. Hehehe actually my mum is a classic, she’s been through so many dentists and doctors, she’ll “sack them” for the smallest things.
I have companies blacklisted like Sony, Clarion and others for what I deemed to be unsatisfactory service. I’ve sacked a few dentists as well…
Skepticism doesn’t just run in my family, it’s the default position taken by nearly everyone with my background on everything…

Anyway Im happy that you at least understand my perspective. Have a great new year and God Bless

 

[TheLittleLady]

It’s more like doubt in the claim that the Holy Spirit always guides the church given that it didn’t guide these events/people/decisions.

Ahhh, that is the thing. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit always, however, individuals have free will to ignore the guidance of the Lord.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Ahhh, that is the thing. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit always, however, individuals have free will to ignore the guidance of the Lord.

What do u mean exactly by “the church”? The individuals run the church right, so…

Someone else defined it like this; “The belief of Catholics is not that the Pope and Bishops can do no wrong, but rather the teaching authority of the Church does not lead the faithful astray.”

I confirmed it with him that this basically says that the Holy Spirit guides the teachings of the Church. For me there are questionable doctrines but I can’t actually identify one that is proven to be incorrect. So I think this is a strong definition, anyone who is attacking then has to give an example of a proven false doctrine.

Anyways change the subject, lets go back to the restaurant for dinner ok…
This says a lot about a person I think.
An over cooked steak is enough for me to blacklist the place…
What would it take for you to boycott the restaurant?

 

[TheLittleLady]

What would it take for you to boycott the restaurant?

batter dipped fries

 

[Pai_Nosso]

batter dipped fries

Hehe…
What about them? Elaborate. U didn’t like them? Go somewhere else or?

 

[TheLittleLady]

They are vile. Fries need to be pure, fresh cut from Idaho potatoes dusted with good salt.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Fair enough this is business, standards need to be met…

Idaho, sounds like the country. I hate the city. Rather a small town with a small church away from the madness of the city

 

[Rau]

Fries need to be pure, fresh cut from Idaho potatoes dusted with good salt.

Tasmanian potatoes far preferable.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Tasmanian potatoes far preferable.

LoL… Your from across Bass Strait. G’day.

That little change in the wording u used has put a whole new perspective on it.
Saying the Holy Spirit guides the church is too broad. It didn’t guide the church through a lot of stuff. But when you say that the Holy Spirit guides the teachings of the Church then that is something else. One must then dismiss all the wrongs of the church as they aren’t related to doctrine.

The skeptical person like me then tries to identify a doctrine that can be proven to be wrong. There are doctrines that one can cast doubt upon or say we don’t know the full truth of or it’s origins, etc. But there is nothing that is proven to be incorrect. So given I cannot prove any doctrine to be incorrect my belief towards the Church teachings has almost flipped. I think i implied u were a troll so i offer my apology and give you my thanks.

I’ve got another line of reasoning which, for me, is a huge piece of evidence that the Holy Spirit is in our priesthood. It’s a real display of power that only the Holy Spirit could achieve. I will present it in another thread.