The man crucified aside Christ

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Psychic said:
He wasn’t baptised. How was he saved?
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By his faith in Jesus Christ and the blood of the cross.

You are suggesting that the rest of us do not need baptism perhaps?
  1. The thief was promised paradise before the command to “baptize all nations.”
  2. The thief had no opportunity for water baptism.
  3. The Church recognizes that in extreme circumstances, such as that described here, or where a person who desires baptism dies before he is baptised, the desire of baptism may suffice. We call it “the baptism of desire.”
  4. When an unbaptized person dies as a martyr for his faith in Jesus Christ, we consider this “the baptism of blood.”
  5. It would be insolent to presume that such exceptional means of grace should render the ordinary means unnecessary in ordinary circumstances.
 
mercygate said:
By his faith in Jesus Christ and the blood of the cross.

You are suggesting that the rest of us do not need baptism perhaps?
  1. The thief was promised paradise before the command to “baptize all nations.”
  2. The thief had no opportunity for water baptism.
  3. The Church recognizes that in extreme circumstances, such as that described here, or where a person who desires baptism dies before he is baptised, the desire of baptism may suffice. We call it “the baptism of desire.”
  4. When an unbaptized person dies as a martyr for his faith in Jesus Christ, we consider this “the baptism of blood.”
  5. It would be insolent to presume that such exceptional means of grace should render the ordinary means unnecessary in ordinary circumstances.
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Can you answer this?
[mostholyfamilymonastery.com/EENS_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html](http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/EENS_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html)
 
Psychic said:
Can you answer this?
[mostholyfamilymonastery.com/EENS_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html](http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/EENS_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html)
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Ah. This group is a break-away faction with Catholic roots that repudiates the Catholic Church. They are “more Catholic than the Pope.” There are a bunch of these groups. Steer clear of them. They are poison.

If you want to know what the Church teaches on any particular subject, try *The Catechism of the Catholic Church. *

*The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church *is available in print and on line. This is shorter and simpler than the full Catechism.

Another good resource is Catholicism for Dummies.
 
Keep in mind that the Holy Innocents who died were also not baptised with water, but the blood they shed for Him.

We celebrate their feast on December 28.
 
Because God Himself told him face to face that he was. If God says it, it is so. He’s very lucky.
 
There is a story about this man in the “Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary From the Visions of Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich”.

Emmerich writes in one of her visions she traveled with the Holy Family as they were fleeing Herod. Along the way they staying with a group of people that were theives but they accepted them and did not harm them. One woman at this camp gave Mary water to bath the Baby Jesus and after Mary was done this woman asked if she could bath her leper small son in the left over water. Mary gave her the water and this leper little boy was cured. Which later in her vision she recognized him as the thief next to Jesus on the cross.

I guess in a sense he was baptized.
 
Wedgewood said:
There is a story about this man in the “Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary From the Visions of Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich”.

Emmerich writes in one of her visions she traveled with the Holy Family as they were fleeing Herod. Along the way they staying with a group of people that were theives but they accepted them and did not harm them. One woman at this camp gave Mary water to bath the Baby Jesus and after Mary was done this woman asked if she could bath her leper small son in the left over water. Mary gave her the water and this leper little boy was cured. Which later in her vision she recognized him as the thief next to Jesus on the cross.

I guess in a sense he was baptized.
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Stories like this, charming though they are, make me glad that the Church does not ask me to accept private revelations de fide.

To my mind, this carries the same weight as the story of *The Fourth Wise Man. *I certainly would not introduce this kind of thing on a thread like this, where the OP probably has enough misconceptions about the Catholic faith to keep us busy for a long time without introducing private revelation.
 
How was he saved?
If God says you’re saved, you’re saved.

Matthew
 
It’s Called Baptism of Blood, which along with Baptism of Desire and Baptism by water, are legitimate forms of baptism.

Also, many orthodox Catholic theologians have gone on to say that since one can do one’s share of purgatorial suffering on Earth, this theif would have gone to Abraham’s bosom with Jesus (He descended to the dead) and would have entered Heaven as soon as the doors opened.

Also, even the MHFM gang will agree that God is not limited to the Sacraments. If he was, then the Sacraments would have been His master rather than His creation, something that’s clearly impossible.

I’ve heard of any Christian scholar anywhere suggesting that the Good Thief isn’t in Heaven right now.
 
Psychic said:
He wasn’t baptised. How was he saved?
Click to expand...
The Baptism of Blood is what I mostly use, but is useless when talking with Baptist on Sola Fide.

But, how do we know that the thief according to Lk 23:39-43 wasn’t baptised? John the Baptist did baptise many people before and after Jesus’ baptism. I assume that the 12 apostles were also baptised as well (but Paul is the only apostle whose baptism is mentioned in Acts). How do we know that the thief on the cross never heard Jesus before anyway…scripture does indicate that he had knowledge of Jesus’s message of salvation.

Just some thoughts…
 
Lance_O said:
The Baptism of Blood is what I mostly use, but is useless when talking with Baptist on Sola Fide.

But, how do we know that the thief according to Lk 23:39-43 wasn’t baptised? John the Baptist did baptise many people before and after Jesus’ baptism. I assume that the 12 apostles were also baptised as well (but Paul is the only apostle whose baptism is mentioned in Acts). How do we know that the thief on the cross never heard Jesus before anyway…scripture does indicate that he had knowledge of Jesus’s message of salvation.

Just some thoughts…
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. . . and very good thoughts they are. Actually, though, we are pretty safe in understanding that Peter & Andrew had received the baptism of John – and perhaps of Jesus also since it is mentioned that “Jesus was baptizing more disciples than John.” The statement is qualified that his disciples were baptizing, not Jesus, but one cannot rule out that Jesus baptized the 12 himself, and may have baptized more also.
 
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