The "Manosphere", Redpill, and Men's Rights

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Are any of you familiar with this realm of the interwebz? I went into some of those websites thinking they were just helpful, positive self-improvement blogs for young men like myself. I’m talking about sites such as A Voice for Men or Return of Kings.

I was also attracted to the traditionalist/socially conservative mindset that some of these pundits endorse.

But then upon further inspection, I found something more sinister. While some of these sites have valid points (such as male victims of domestic violence being ignored, or how divorce law overwhelmingly favors women and is often ruinous for men), a lot of it is geared towards “game”, that is, getting laid via seduction and perfidy.

There is an obsession with the Alpha/Beta male dichotomy (alphas being the bad boys who get all the girls, betas being the “nice guys” who get the table scraps). They insist on an 80-20 rule: 20 percent of men get 80 percent of women.

I know misogyny can be exaggerated in this day and age, but these guys attribute everything women do to perfidy, weakness, and stupidity. They assume that women are all promiscuous gold diggers seeking sex and money who will dump any man once a guy they like better comes along (what they call hypergamy).

Some have even argued that women and children should be beaten and stripped of their rights for disobedience.

Point out that their whole worldview is a self-centered Dark Triad, and you will be dismissed as a “mangina” or a male feminist “white knight”. Their appeal lies in their insistence that they are upholding the natural order of things, the way gender roles have been for thousands of years.

The most aggravating thing about these types is that I agree with them sometimes; that society has ostracized men, manhood, and fatherhood, and that there is this misconception that women can do no wrong. What’s more, “male feminist” White Knights who excuse bad behavior by women do exist, and are a most pathetic specimen.

Of course, they seem oblivious to the fact that by participating in hookup culture, they are part of the problem by encouraging promiscuity in both men and women. They try to wave away this double standard with “muh biological differences”.

Any thoughts or experiences with this?
 
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There is an obsession with the Alpha/Beta male dichotomy (alphas being the bad boys who get all the girls, betas being the “nice guys” who get the table scraps)
My poor husband; he married a table scrap. eyeroll

Anyhow, often people with extreme fringe beliefs hold that attitude because they have either been hurt in some way or cannot accept personal responsibility for their own failures. Reason and logic is unlikely to hold much sway with them. Just pray for them and pray especially for the poor women and children in their lives!

St. Joseph, most chaste spouse, grant us true holy men.
 
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They’re damaged, boring, annoying. Why bother?

Pretty much the equivalent of extreme feminists who I find equally damaged, boring and annoying.
 
True. But I have a bad habit of letting edgy people live in my head rent-free.
 
Think of it as an example of the type of garbage philosophy that you get when you reduce everything to instant gratification backed up by misunderstood principles from cheap popular science books, and completely leave God out of your thinking.

If that is there conclusion, surely that is a red flag that either their original premise or their logic went haywire somewhere.

(the latter argument can be held up against any form of extremism by the way)
 
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My opinion is basically the same I guess.

Nothing wrong with men (and women) wanting to talk about issues that affect men. Or not wanting marriage/relationships. Or wanting traditional marriages for themselves.

But they spend most of their time twisting psychology to suit their ideology, hating on women and other men who don’t fit their ideals. Also encouraging lustful and dehumanizing behavior at the same time!

Catholic men and women should emphasise on a wholesome community where such issues can be discussed without turning it into some really extreme hate fest.

It’s pretty dangerous bc upset men can stumble into such forums and before you know it…they become one of them. Same with women and extreme left wing feminists.
 
See, I thought initially that it was a benevolent site like Brett McKay’s the Art of Manliness: life skills and self-improvement tips for young men who are out on their own and want to expand their horizons.

Where they go wrong is when they posit that women are the source of all their problems. Feminism has born ill fruits, there’s no question. But when you blame others for all your problems, that is when you become a whiner with an axe to grind.

The “incel” mass shooter Elliott Rodger, who touted himself as the “supreme gentleman” and killed women of the same type he felt rejected by, comes to mind. (By the way, mention him and they immediately go into damage control mode).
 
We’ve had a couple of posters on CAF who subscribe to that movement.

I agree with Bear’s assessment. Damaged, bored and annoying. They can’t see that it’s their own attitude stopping them from finding happiness with someone, not the rest of the world.
 
I would just avoid these websites and stick to The Art of Manliness, which I remember being very reasonable.
 
Think of it as an example of the type of garbage philosophy that you get when you reduce everything to instant gratification backed up by misunderstood principles from cheap popular science books, and completely leave God out of your thinking.
This succinctly sums it up. Their views on women and relationships are diametrically opposed to Catholic teaching.

There was a long-time CAF poster who promulgated this view here regularly (one of the more cringeworthy posters IMO, so he always stuck out to me), but mercifully he was suspended last year.
 
I feel like I’m saying what I already know, and maybe I just need to say it. They also seem oblivious to the fact that their perception of all women as trashy comes from the fact that they chase trashy women; college town bar girls or their Tinder matches.
They dismiss the “church girls” or “good girls” as disingenuous. Nobody is without sin, but they assume that godly women don’t exist at all or are always hiding something.
 
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I don’t really pay attention to it.

As a young teenager years ago, it obviously sucked to see men hating on me to that extent. But now you eventually see that they’re…losers. Lol. Tend to tune it out.

My main issue is the more moderate guys who claim that they’re for equality (of opportunities or outcomes, doesn’t matter) but they hold really weird views of women. Because it’s more subtle.

I do find it annoying that it’s easy for young men to accidentally come across it (eg through YouTube comments when they’re watching literally any conservative video). I just hope men get the community they need without resorting to such forums.
 
My main issue is the more moderate guys who claim that they’re for equality (of opportunities or outcomes, doesn’t matter) but they hold really weird views of women. Because it’s more subtle.
See also: Anthony Weiner, Harvey Weinstein, Bob Filner, Bill Clinton
 
The emphasis on getting laid and on getting women whose looks will impress other men shows a lot of immaturity and lack of self-confidence. They’re not capable of an actual friendship with a woman or just getting along with women as people without projecting this big sex/ gender/ ego context onto it. Same for extreme feminists. Most of us get past that stage by high school or right after. These people are stuck in some stage of arrested development.

“Getting laid” is not only against Catholic teaching, it’s an empty, meaningless activity anyway even if you’re an atheist.

I am willing to bet a lot of these guys have mommy issues. The best guide to how a man treats women is how he behaves with and speaks of his mom.
 
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I peeked into a couple of these sites after hearing the term red pill.
It hurt my heart a bit.
There is so much pain and sadness in these guys that manifests in anger, like the extreme feminists who have so much pain and anger and sadness.
 
I am willing to bet a lot of these guys have mommy issues. The best guide to how a man treats women is how he behaves with and speaks of his mom.
Or daddy issues, for that matter. Many of society’s plagues can be linked to a lack of strong fathers; young men are turning to gangsters, white nationalists, or snake oil salesmen like Roosh V (the pop-ups advertising merchandise revolving around Roosh is proof that Return of Kings is about him and how great he is; in other words, they’re living vicariously through him. Sounds like the textbook behavior of beta males, right there with a grown man wearing another grown man’s name on his back!
 
Are any of you familiar with this realm of the interwebz?
You need to stay away from those sites. They are sick, disturbed people. There is nothing helpful there, and a whole heap of negative, infectious malcontent.
 
It sounds like this movement had been around long before the internet came, but the world-wide-web is only it’s the latest medium. I tend to get sucked into fringe beliefs very easily, but this one was really off-putting. Even more than Sedevacantism.
 
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