The Marital Debt

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twf said:
This is a good point. It’s considered sinful to refuse sex without just cause, but it’s also sinful for a man not to physically complete the act. What if, due to him not being “in the mood” (distracted, stressed, etc) he can’t physically complete? Lose lose.
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Yeah. And if it’s a woman, the chance of her being fully satisfied with the act is really really slim in this case. Someone having sex with you because they’re afraid of sinning doesn’t make the act unitive. It can also leave the spouse feeling objectified and used/a lack of autonomy, especially for those with a history of sex abuse.

Not saying that they’re equivalent, but the ‘obligation’ and the feeling of not being allowed to say no whenever they want can trigger past issues…or even new ones.
 
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lonegreywolf20 said:
Had I been given a choice, I wouldn’t have become Catholic. I would have probably been Lutheran or Episcopalian. However, I wasn’t given a choice and now I am bound by Catholic rules
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i don’t get how you are “bound by Catholic rules”. It is a free will choice to accept God in his church. People walk out of the Church every day and join other churches and do not consider themselves so “bound”. The “binding” is in your mind.

I have a relative whose father was a Baptist minister. When he was a baby he became very ill and his parents rushed him to the nearest hospital, which happened to be Catholic. The staff there informed the parents that the baby was in danger of death and asked if they could baptize him. The Protestant parents said yes so this baby was baptized by the Catholic nun or priest or whoever was there. The baby survived, grew up and is today a practicing Baptist, married in the Baptist church to a Baptist wife. He does not consider himself bound by the fact that he was baptized Catholic.

For that matter I myself was baptized Catholic, by Catholic parents, raised Catholic and yet as an adult managed to freely break the rules of the Church right and left for about 3 decades. When I decided to come back and follow the rules it was because I wanted to do that, I wanted to be a good Catholic and please God, not because I was somehow “bound to the rules”.

This whole idea is weird. God gives us a free will and asks us to CHOOSE to follow him in his church. We aren’t somehow bonded to it chemically.
 
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I’m afraid it is lost on me. Sorry.

And sorry also that we derailed the thread due to the other poster who went off topic. I should have just put that on ignore. I will leave the thread now.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
i don’t get how you are “bound by Catholic rules”. It is a free will choice to accept God in his church. People walk out of the Church every day and join other churches and do not consider themselves so “bound”. The “binding” is in your mind.
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Apparently it does matter to some people and possibly Catholic family if they want to get married. They can’t in good conscience promise to bring the children up Catholic and Catholic family may not wish to attend a wedding that the Church won’t recognize.
 
Then it’s their conscience doing the binding. Why would you wish to have an annulment to turn off your conscience when your conscience, properly formed, is what keeps you out of Hell? It’s like people want to just be free to go happily to Hell. Have fun with that, I’m out of this thread…it makes no sense to me whatsoever when you should be thanking God for the good motivations that keep you from sin.
 
Hope it’s OK to speak frankly here.

We have to be careful to not get into a habit of saying “No”. It’s an easy habit to fall into, and it’s not a good habit to develop.

I almost always find that even if I’m not in the mood, if I yield to my husband’s desire and “go through the motions,” I eventually find myself very much “in the mood.” God made us to desire each other, after all.

It’s kind of like exercise. Many MANY (most?) people do not want to do their daily fitness routine, and they stall and make excuses and think of reasons not to do it. But for most of us, if we simply DO IT, even if we don’t feel like it and even if we resent the commitment of time and energy, within a few minutes we find that we are truly enjoying our workout, we feel incredibly good physically and mentally, and when we’re finished, we’re really glad that we talked ourselves into doing it.

So sometimes, assuming that there is no true physical or other reason to wait, I think that sexual reticence can be circumvented simply by “Just say Yes!” and “Do it!” Once you get the engine warmed up, most cars run just fine. 😀
 
Peeps said:
So the “marriage debt means that I CAN reject my spouse if I have a good reason.”
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Since it’s a good reason, it’s not really rejecting., But yes, that is most certainly part of the Church’s teaching. As the OP article details, as almost every post defending the teaching on this forum has stated as far back as I remember.
 
Peeps said:
I almost always find that even if I’m not in the mood, if I yield to my husband’s desire and “go through the motions,” I eventually find myself very much “in the mood.” God made us to desire each other, after all.
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While it’s true that you probably need some time to feel like you’re in the mood, sometimes it may not be enough. Then what?

I do think there is a difference between ‘not tonight, but I’m willing to be convinced’ VS ‘not tonight, please stop feeling me up’, hahaha. Either way, if one goes through the motions and still find themselves uninterested, what happens next?
 
Because you derailed the thread (ie talked about something that had nothing to do with the original topic)
 
Just flabbergasted of all the people here who never engage in marital relations if they are not “in the mood” Most married people know what it is like often to do something loving for your spouse when you are “not in the mood” I can sure as heck tell you I am not in the mood to go to the mall today… but yet… off I go… And guess what if I don’t complain and just enjoy doing something for my wife I might actually have a good time and enjoy my marriage and life…
But even if I don’t so what? She didn’t ask something immoral or horrible.
 
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Because conversations like this rarely includes the ‘downsides’ of simply doing it when you don’t want to. For example, these parts:
Lea101 said:
it’s not always easy to get into the head space for sex. Which then leads to the next big thing. Are they to fake enthusiasm, or lie there? Surely both options are terrible.
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Lea101 said:
And if it’s a woman, the chance of her being fully satisfied with the act is really really slim in this case. Someone having sex with you because they’re afraid of sinning doesn’t make the act unitive. It can also leave the spouse feeling objectified and used/a lack of autonomy, especially for those with a history of sex abuse.

Not saying that they’re equivalent, but the ‘obligation’ and the feeling of not being allowed to say no whenever they want can trigger past issues…or even new ones.
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We don’t always agree, but this time your post is spot on. The idea that it’s ok to casually reject your spouse is really surprising.

We can all debate what defines reasonable in the context of this teaching, but the idea that it’s ok to unreasonably refuse one’s spouse is just wrong. The Church’s teaching on this topic should be common sense.
 
CTBcin said:
I
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Lol I thought this had to do with Finances.

My husband and I simply have marital relations as often as we want. I never thought of it as a anything negative, like a debt. We just think of it as just one of those amazing benefits of being married.
 
I’ve been known to say, “I’m not really in the mood but I’m sure if you try you can change that.” 😀
 
Lea101 said:
The main question some may probably have is: why isn’t ‘not feeling like it’ seen as a reasonable cause?

(not to start anything, I feel like we always have this conversation lol)
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“not feeling like it” is totally fine during individual instances. But when a spouse refuses to have sex for months or years because they are “not feeling like it” for months or years at a time, then something is really wrong with the marriage.
 
This is true, and the problem usually has nothing to do with sex.

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a huge disconnect between reality and what some posters think authentic Catholic teaching on sex and marriage is?
 
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Explain what you believe the disconnect is, and will tell you if it’s just you or not.
 
I hereby move that we all stop saying “the marital act” and just say “sex.” We’re not Victorian ladies on the fainting couch here. “Sex” is not a dirty word.
 
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