The Mark of the Beast

[Lapell]

Funny how our quotes are erased, but not the part starting with: “Originally written by…”, for in the case of my previous post, the quote was Ben’s, not my own!

 

[cthulhubryan]

What’s that supposed to mean, that it’s forbidden to say that Hitler was an anti-Semite? No, I do know what you mean. It’s all because of the black history of the Church with reference to the Jews. You guys are not comfortable that those pages be reminded as acts of antisemtism. Guess what. There is no way to rewrite History.

Nope, not at all. You have clearly stated that ANYTHING that criticizes a Jew is antisemitism. No one with a brain denies that Hitler was an antisemite but when you try to lay any criticism of Jews or Israel as antisemitism is when you go too far.

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Again, I urge that you read Josephus under the chapter about the character that Pilate was. Of all Romans in Israel, there was never one to hate Jews more than Pilate. Two things never happened with Pilate because it was not in his nature: The washing of his hands from the blood of Jesus and the option between Jesus and Barrabas. If Pilate had a chance to crucify two Jews, he would never let one go.

There were days that he would voluntarily even provoke Jews just not to end the day without putting some on the cross. And about Pilate washing his hand to go clear of guilt of the death of a Jew, such a joke must be for the laughs or for the gags. This is all Church conspiracy to transfer the blame from the Romans to the Jews. After all the Church had to do something to please Constantine for making of Christianity the religion of the Empire.**

So, because it matches your point of view we are to take the word of one person (Josephus) over that of multiple people (the gospels) and please remember that the gospels were written long before Constantine was even born.

If you can refute the fact of the gospels predating Constantine without your insane conspiracy theories about Paul then please do but enough with the hate filled garbage spewing from your mouth.

 

[sambos671]

So, because it matches your point of view we are to take the word of one person (Josephus) over that of multiple people (the gospels) and please remember that the gospels were written long before Constantine was even born.

If you can refute the fact of the gospels predating Constantine without your insane conspiracy theories about Paul then please do but enough with the hate filled garbage spewing from your mouth.

This seems as far fetched as a highly inteligent being from outer space seeded the planet earth with a particualar ensyme or protein that they then allowed to mature into human beings and specifically the Jewish people. Which is why God is primarily conserned with them since he’s really an alien. Just saying.

 

[Lapell]

Which is why God is primarily concerned with them since he’s really an alien. Just saying.

Why would God be “primarily” concerned with the Jews BECAUSE He “'s really an alien.”? I’d think it’s we who alienated ourselves from Him, not He an alien! Moreover, even though the Jews are His segullah (like the pupils of His eyes), God is deeply interested in each and every one of us as though we’d be the only one living person in the world, believe it or not!

 

[sambos671]

Why would God be “primarily” concerned with the Jews BECAUSE He “'s really an alien.”? I’d think it’s we who alienated ourselves from Him, not He an alien! Moreover, even though the Jews are His segullah (like the pupils of His eyes), God is deeply interested in each and every one of us as though we’d be the only one living person in the world, believe it or not!

I was making a play on words with your conspiracy theory comment. The fact is the Ben Massada seems to be influenced by speculation from certian trains of Rabbinic thought with regard to the Hillel school of thought and Jesus as well as misconstured historians like those of the Jesus seminar. Specifically John Dominic Crossan who believes that Jesus body was thrown in a public pit and eaten by dogs which is the real meaning of the ressurection for him.

 

[Lapell]

Sambos, I guess some of the humor displayed on CAF may be like Chinese to me. Not all of it is that obvious to me, somehow!
As for how you say Crossan view Christ’s Resurrection… did he really say that? Aargh!

 

[Lapell]

The fact is the Ben Massada seems to be influenced by speculation from certian trains of Rabbinic thought with regard to the Hillel school of thought and Jesus

Ben actually makes me think of him more as a Saducee than as a Pharisee! Pharisees at least have used to believe in an afterlife, even in a resurrection of the dead on the latter day…

 

[sambos671]

Ben actually makes me think of him more as a Saducee than as a Pharisee! Pharisees at least have used to believe in an afterlife, even in a resurrection of the dead on the latter day…

Yes Crossan really believes that. His Jesus seminar also voted on what Jesus “actually said” and most of the Gospels are inaccurate with what Jesus supposidly says. Ben is a Saducee and comes from that rabbinic thought. I think in Today’s Judaism there are very few who believe in a physical resurrection. The Hillel school was just one of many schools of thought during Jesus day. But often there are correlations between what we know of Hillel and Jesus’ statements.

 

[Lapell]

Yes Crossan really believes that. His Jesus seminar also voted on what Jesus “actually said” and most of the Gospels are inaccurate with what Jesus supposidly says. Ben is a Saducee and comes from that rabbinic thought. I think in Today’s Judaism there are very few who believe in a physical resurrection. The Hillel school was just one of many schools of thought during Jesus day. But often there are correlations between what we know of Hillel and Jesus’ statements.

Among the “religious Jews”, I’d believe they are more believing in an afterlife than those not believing in it. And those who don’t attend the synagogue services, I don’t know in what proportion they stand on either side, nor what percentage of all the Jews they are…
I thought the Saducees were near extinct!

 

[look3467]

Really? Well, the earliest known text of the book of Revelation dating a century after Ireaneus has the Greek text showing Chi Iota Stigma rather than Chi Xi Stigma as found in the majority text. Also the Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus as it writen in full Hexakosiai deka hex rather than Hexakosioi Hexekonta hex. 666 aramaic rendering from the Greek could lead one to believe it meant Nero. Yet 616 rendering rendering from Greek to Aramaic can point to Caligula who had his statue errected in the temple. Ireaneaus knows about the 616 rendering but rejects it Jerome also knows about it and uses it both had text that are no longer extant. So which is it?

Regardless of what may be made of it, the number 666 is still consistent with the whole of the bible.

Now, if it weren’t, then I would not view it the way I do.

There are patterns that are consistent through out the bible which are key to understanding.

The greatest consistency is with the number 7.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[look3467]

It was a putting aside for a while, not rejection, AJ!
Also, if love for the neighbour is a Commandment, it does mean we can do something about it. Otherwise it would be absurd, and God is not absurd, is He?

If you can understand the reason for the following verse, you will see the reason for the for the rejection: Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

The builders are Israel of which were true to the God of Abraham, careful to carry out the laws to the letter.
Jesus comes and tells them that He is the only way to the Father (God of Abraham) and that they should now come through Him, upsets their whole theology, labeling Jesus a blasphemer worthy of death.

To understand the cross as being the crossroads between the old and the new is to see God in Jesus, as God reconciling the world back unto Himself.

What the sacrifice do for humanity is save their lost souls, for up until Jesus came and paid the price, there was no hope of salvation, due to the strictness of the law.

The soul being saved without our help liberates us to be who we want to be.

The consequence of that is that for those who have no knowledge of the saving grace that paid for their souls salvation can only live out their lives with what they know and understand.

And example would be folks dedicated to please God, by what ever name they choose to call Him, yet faithful to that cause are in bondage to that cause.

But for those by reason of knowledge and experience understand the saving grace of God are liberated both in body and soul.

Liberated in body I mean not subject to any human belief system, but are liberated to honor God within their own temple where God does reside, and that is their souls heart.

Therefore greater is He that is inside than he that is on the outside giving us victory over the outside.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[look3467]

Here we are in the province of opinions, Ben.
And Paul had received death threats even when he STARTED preaching Jesus. I doubt he had even mentioned anything drawing the accusations you keep repeating even though it was a conclusion quite jumped at, for the changes at the time Paul was arrested only were about those of Gentile origin!

Lying is perceived by those in opposition, but does not make it true.

Jesus was not a blasphemer as accused but was perceived as such by the opposition.

There is allot of perceiving in the bible that we must learn to discern in order to understand what is truth.

Paul was given understanding via the Holy Spirit and did the best he knew how in disseminating the information.

The messengers are never perfect, except for one, in delivering information given them by the Holy Spirit.

So try to see past the imperfection of the messenger, the perceived views of the opposition and see if you can nail the truth.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[Ben_Masada]

Lying is perceived by those in opposition, but does not make it true.

Jesus was not a blasphemer as accused but was perceived as such by the opposition.

There is allot of perceiving in the bible that we must learn to discern in order to understand what is truth.

Paul was given understanding via the Holy Spirit and did the best he knew how in disseminating the information.

The messengers are never perfect, except for one, in delivering information given them by the Holy Spirit.

So try to see past the imperfection of the messenger, the perceived views of the opposition and see if you can nail the truth.

Blessing’s, AJ

**Jesus was never accused of being a blasphemer, because we know he was not. That’s a false accusation of the accusers that Jesus was accused of being a blasphemer. Jesus was not crucified for being a blasphemer. Jesus was crucified because of a clash of a Jewish custom with a Roman policy. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

So, because it matches your point of view we are to take the word of one person (Josephus) over that of multiple people (the gospels) and please remember that the gospels were written long before Constantine was even born.

If you can refute the fact of the gospels predating Constantine without your insane conspiracy theories about Paul then please do but enough with the hate filled garbage spewing from your mouth.

**There is a slight difference between Josephus and the gospel writers. Josephus’ mind was not tight by preconceived notions. The Gospel writers had the ghost of Paul tormenting them not to forget that Jesus had to be Christ.

Regarding the gospels having been written long before Constantine was even born, I remember. Don’t worry. But you should remember what editors can do, especially when over their shoulders stood the Church with such a position of power.

I do not hate anyone or anything. I am only trying to fix the image of Judaism, which you distort in the eyes of the world by using a religious Jew to insert Hellenistic innovations into it. If you had started with a Greek man and not Jesus, we would not be having this discussion.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Here we are in the province of opinions, Ben.
And Paul had received death threats even when he STARTED preaching Jesus. I doubt he had even mentioned anything drawing the accusations you keep repeating even though it was a conclusion quite jumped at, for the changes at the time Paul was arrested only were about those of Gentile origin!

Do you have a Bible? I believe you do. Does your Bible have a book called Acts of the Apostles? I believe it does. Check if there is in this book a chapter 21 and verse 21. If it does, why do you say that’s my opinion? If this is only a human opinion, it’s the opinion of Luke’s not mine. Read any quotation given as evidence, and then you can give your opinion.

 

[onenow1]

Do you have a Bible? I believe you do. Does your Bible have a book called Acts of the Apostles? I believe it does. Check if there is in this book a chapter 21 and verse 21. If it does, why do you say that’s my opinion? If this is only a human opinion, it’s the opinion of Luke’s not mine. Read any quotation given as evidence, and then you can give your opinion.

Hi,Ben Have you not read 2Peter 16-18. The one who holds the office appointed to him by Jesus.

Peace onenow1opcorn:

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi,Ben Have you not read 2Peter 16-18. The one who holds the office appointed to him by Jesus.

Peace onenow1opcorn:

**Peter never wrote that Letter. Even Saint Joseph’s edition of the Catholic New American Version of the Bible, in the preface to 2Peter says that an unknown author wrote that Letter and entitled it according to Peter. In fact, none of the writings of the NT comes from a Nazarene Jew. They were all written by Gentiles who had been a former disciple of Paul’s. **

 

[look3467]

**quote=Ben Masada;5323582]Jesus was never accused of being a blasphemer, because we know he was not. That’s a false accusation of the accusers that Jesus was accused of being a blasphemer. Jesus was not crucified for being a blasphemer. Jesus was crucified because of a clash of a Jewish custom with a Roman policy. **

Hi, Ben

The view which you gave, quote: " **Jesus was crucified because of a clash of a Jewish custom with a Roman policy" **I can agree with as a reason but not the reason.
**
But in order to understand why Jesus was crucified was the result of this statement by Jesus: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

**If you are a true Jew then that statement should also offend you because it makes Jesus the means by which you and the Jewish nation should go through to get to the Father.

And of course, a true Jew will not accept it since the true Messiah has not yet come.

Of course that statement clashed with the Jewish view of God the Father being the only one.**
**
The number of a man**: Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom**. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Man, according to Genesis is a 6 day creation. So 6 is the number of " a " man, Adam.
1st man Adam brought life in the flesh and death of the soul.
2nd man Adam brought life to the death soul.
3rd man Adam is the new creature, a new generation.

The reason the number is double twice is because God always brings it to pass on the third time.**
Gen 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled** unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, (3rd time) and God will shortly bring it to pass.

That is a pattern through out the bible.
**
Moses was 40 + 40 + 40 after which he rested.
Deu 34:7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old** when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

*Pharaohs dreams

• Noted three crosses on Calvary
• Peters experience with the cock three times
  Etc.**
  **
  The Jewish high priest were chosen by the Father to offer up animal sacrifices.
  Likewise, they were also chosen to offer up the sacrificial lamb of God (Jesus) as per the Fathers instructions, of which God held them innocent of their doing evident by Jesus’ word’s, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

So, dear Jewish friend, your soul and mine have been paid for by that one sacrifice of the lamb of God, offered up by the Jewish High priest.**

Now, here is one verse I want you to look at: Isa 9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel** head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

The Jewish nation, chosen by the Father to be the recipients of His laws and revelations to the world were considered as the head.

Isa 9:15 The ancient and honourable, (Jewish high priests) he is the head; and the prophet (Jesus) that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

When Jesus came, He came as the tail.

So, guess what the Father did? He cut off both head and tail in one single day.

How? The Jewish high priests (Head) crucified Jesus (tail) and Jesus (tail) cut off the Jewish nation from being the head.

To where now the following verse applies:Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
I don’t expect you to believe all or any part of what I pointed out to you, but it is something you should look in to.

Blessing’s, AJ

**

**

 

[Ben_Masada]

**quote=Ben Masada;5323582]Jesus was never accused of being a blasphemer, because we know he was not. That’s a false accusation of the accusers that Jesus was accused of being a blasphemer. Jesus was not crucified for being a blasphemer. Jesus was crucified because of a clash of a Jewish custom with a Roman policy. **

Hi, Ben

The view which you gave, quote: Jesus was crucified because of a clash of a Jewish custom with a Roman policy" I can agree with as a reason but not the reason.

But in order to understand why Jesus was crucified was the result of this statement by Jesus: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If you are a true Jew then that statement should also offend you because it makes Jesus the means by which you and the Jewish nation should go through to get to the Father.

No, it does not. Jesus spoke as part or on behalf of the People he belonged to. The way, the truth, and the life is the Word of God, which was given to Israel only and to other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) Therefore, any loyal Jew can say the same as Jesus did if he or she is speaking as a representative of the People.

And of course, a true Jew will not accept it since the true Messiah has not yet come.

**There is no such a thing as a true Jew. One is either a Jew or he is not. And as far as I am concern, the true Messiah has returned to the Land of Israel. I believe that according to Isaiah, the true Messiah is Israel, the Jewish People. **.

The Jewish high priest were chosen by the Father to offer up animal sacrifices.
Likewise, they were also chosen to offer up the sacrificial lamb of God (Jesus) as per the Fathers instructions, of which God held them innocent of their doing evident by Jesus’ word’s, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

Jesus did not specify whom he was talking about when he said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” Since the Romans were the ones doing the business of the crucifixion, it could very well be that Jesus was referring to them.

So, dear Jewish friend, your soul and mine have been paid for by that one sacrifice of the lamb of God, offered up by the Jewish High priest.

The Jewish High Priest had nothing to do with Jesus’ crucifixion. And Jesus knew very well that it was against the Law for a Jew to die for another. Therefore, Jesus did not die for the sins of anyone.

Now, here is one verse I want you to look at Isa 9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

**This is a reference to Israel, the Suffering Servant, when he was rejected by God and removed from life by being taken by the Assyrians. (Psalm 78:67-69) **

The Jewish nation, chosen by the Father to be the recipients of His laws and revelations to the world were considered as the head.

The expression head and tail means total and forever removed from the land of the living.

To where now the following verse applies: Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew circumcision nor uncircumcision Barbarian, Scythian bond nor free but Christ is all, and in all.

I look at this as the Pauline attempt to establish his Replacement Theology.