B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**All Christians without exception temper with Judaism by inserting Hellenistic innovations of Greek Mythology into it… So, my message goes to all of them.
Ben:
**
- Status
Ben:
**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Ben Masada;5007451:
**Of course! You are not the first one with eyes patched up with bandages of faith. Besides, let me remind you that by insulting me with comparing my research with dung, you are inviting me to return the same kind of insult. But for the time being, I forgive you because you don’t know what you are saying.
Ben:**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Ben Masada;5007326:
**And this is the kind of answer that only blind people who don’t want to see can give.
Ben:**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
** Jesus said that he didn’t come to abolish the Jewish laws.
(Mat. 5:17) Paul said that the Jewish laws were abolished in Jesus. (Ephe. 2:15) If “anti” means to contradict, and Paul contradicted Jesus, and you say that’s a fallacy of mine to bring this to the light. The worst blind is the one who does not want to see.
Ben:
**
E
Ed_Rand
Guest
Filioque;5007787:
with dung, you are inviting me to return the same kind of insult. But for the time being, I forgive you because you don’t know what you are saying.
Ben:
Oh! This is research!!! OK. My apologies. I didn’t know that we were dealing with a New Testament scholar…
C
cyber1call
Guest
Ben, let me apologize…of course it was Damascus!
I’m impressed that you are in a very small minority that can recognize that Paul taught something different than Jesus did! (Not in all cases, but in some very significant ones.) Now given that Jesus taught almost exclusively under the original Mosaic Covenant and to Jews, and Paul introduced a New Covenant mostly directed at non-Jews, no one should be surprised at that! Paul introduced new information that changed a lot of things and one must accept that fact or reject it. I’m sorry you reject, but that’s your right. What puzzles me at times is that most Christians don’t know enough about the Scriptures to recognize the “discrepancies” and aren’t even aware they need to make that choice.
However, I must point out that James (the Lord’s own half-brother) and the Apostle Peter both believed Paul and recognized his authority.
The Jerusalem Council
Acts 15
1Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. 4When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.”
6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’
18that have been known for ages.
19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
30The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers. 33After spending some time there, they were sent off by the brothers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. 35But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
36Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the brothers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
N
Nino
Guest
This is an old argument viz: against all that we hold dear…Jesus,Paul,and the RCC that believes in both…the anti-christ is anyone who leads people away from the TRUTH!!! Whether its an actor on stage,a writer,a president etc etc…abortion is reproductive freedom therefor must be allowed …and such evil reasoning! The cross was an instrument of death…some 3,000 Jews were crucified just a year or so before Jesus was…He ,by dying on the cross, made that horrible instrument a noble symbol in its self…thats why a blank cross is like a hangmans noose or electric chair…just a means to an end…Jesus did NOT leave any words in booklet form…He left ,instead ,a magic chair of sorts in Rome…and whomever sits in that chair,speaks for HIM in matters of faith and morals…if Jesus had wanted to leave a relgious tract He would have simply invented the printing press,but instead left us the RCC…from the time of Jesus death on earth and 397ad when the various books,diaries etc were finaly assembled under one cover and called the holy Bible…millions of brave intelligent people became Christians.ie Catholics…the church existed before the bible.(NT).so quoting here and there is meaningless and just a trick of semantics intended to nuetralize not inform or aid. .Paul also said women should be silent in church…tell me does your protestant church or whatever allow women to speak or maybe just use sign language…nice try…all the best…Nino
L
LateSixtiesGuy
Guest
Ben, nice to see you here. And nice to see you fomenting discussion as usual. 
To view Sha’ul of Tarsus as an or the antichrist is indeed interesting. I’ll admit I have never though thought of him that way. I think of Sha’ul as a good Jew who believed Yahushua ben Yoseph was the annointed one, but poor ol Sha’ul was mentally ill and he pushed onto Yahushua all sorts of his own misunderstandings and mithraic and hellenistic beliefs. I think one of the important antichrists was Constantine. He is the one who saw the christians as a growing political force and figured he’d better co-opt the new faith for his own desires. Since when does G-d appear, or send anyone on His behalf, with the sign of the cross ? Utter nonsnse. G-d appeared as fire, or a cloud of some. We are supposed to think of His presense in the Menorah. Now all of a sudden He appears as a cross and talks to some Roman conquerer !!! I’m not buying it. I’ve thought for the longest time that Sunday worship was the mark of the beast. The forehead symbolizes what we think or believe, and the ‘right hand’ signifies what we do. I would like to ask Christians just when or where did Yahushua change Shabbat to Sunday ? Weren’t the sabbath and Atonement and Pesach all given as eternal commands ? How many Christians even know what Yom Kippur is ? If Yahushua was really the physical son of YHWH, and everything was going to change when he was gone, wouldn’t ‘Jesus’ have at least mentioned the upcoming changes ? But what did he do…he went around telling folks that they should read the Torah and then DO it. I’ve read his stuff and it certainly seems he was preaching Judaism to me.
Christians seem to have created a new religion ABOUT Yahushua, rather than observing what he told folks to do. LSG
To view Sha’ul of Tarsus as an or the antichrist is indeed interesting. I’ll admit I have never though thought of him that way. I think of Sha’ul as a good Jew who believed Yahushua ben Yoseph was the annointed one, but poor ol Sha’ul was mentally ill and he pushed onto Yahushua all sorts of his own misunderstandings and mithraic and hellenistic beliefs. I think one of the important antichrists was Constantine. He is the one who saw the christians as a growing political force and figured he’d better co-opt the new faith for his own desires. Since when does G-d appear, or send anyone on His behalf, with the sign of the cross ? Utter nonsnse. G-d appeared as fire, or a cloud of some. We are supposed to think of His presense in the Menorah. Now all of a sudden He appears as a cross and talks to some Roman conquerer !!! I’m not buying it. I’ve thought for the longest time that Sunday worship was the mark of the beast. The forehead symbolizes what we think or believe, and the ‘right hand’ signifies what we do. I would like to ask Christians just when or where did Yahushua change Shabbat to Sunday ? Weren’t the sabbath and Atonement and Pesach all given as eternal commands ? How many Christians even know what Yom Kippur is ? If Yahushua was really the physical son of YHWH, and everything was going to change when he was gone, wouldn’t ‘Jesus’ have at least mentioned the upcoming changes ? But what did he do…he went around telling folks that they should read the Torah and then DO it. I’ve read his stuff and it certainly seems he was preaching Judaism to me.Christians seem to have created a new religion ABOUT Yahushua, rather than observing what he told folks to do. LSG
G
geometer
Guest
P
PeteVZ
Guest
Welcome to the forum.Ben, nice to see you here. And nice to see you fomenting discussion as usual.
Christians seem to have created a new religion ABOUT Yahushua, rather than observing what he told folks to do. LSG
Let me attempt to answer a couple of your questions from the Catholic viewpoint.
Catholics don’t believe that Shabbat was changed to Sunday. The Sabbath is still Saturday, however we worship the lord on Sunday as that is the day Christ rose from the dead. Jesus modeled throughout his life that the spirit of the law was more important than the letter. He performed miracles on the Sabbath and was questioned by the temple elders. The important thing is setting aside time to worship.
Catholics honor Yom Kippur whenever the sacrament of reconcilliation is offered (most churches offer it weekly.) Reconcilliation is where we evaluate how we are living God’s word, confess any of our sins to God, and promise to attone for those sins and commit them no more. The Catholic church teaches that we should go to reconcilliation whenever we are in a state of mortal sin, rather than just once a year.
Catholics also honor Pesach every time the Mass is said. The Mass is a celebration of the Passover meal where we remember Jesus last Passover meal with his apostles. Catholics also often have Seder meals to remember Passover (although not necessarily on Passover and I’m sure not with the same level of devotion, but we try)
So while it may be true that many Christians may not know the words Yom Kippur or Pesach, Catholic Christians try to keep the spirit of them alive.
J
Jesus_N_Cherie
Guest
I love the saying: “My God was a Jewish Carpenter”**Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won’t do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.
Ben:
I would NEVER try to take Jesus away from the Jewish people. But He was, is and forever shall be more than the Jewish theology accept…and that is that He is Messiah, Savior, God.
I am thankful that Christians have both the Old Testament and the New Testament as part of our Faith.
Jesus is the Fullfillment of the Old Testament.
R
ryanoneil
Guest
Don’t blame Christianity. Blame Nero or the Sanhedrin.
The little horn was Nero Ceasar. Nero was the one who “spoke against the Most High” and attempted “to change the times and law” (7:25) by enforcing emperor worship. It wasn’t Christians who were making daily sacrifice to Nero, in the Temple, in order to survive, and it wasn’t Christians who stopped the Temple sacrifice. It was Nero who made war with the saints and was victorious (7:21) after three and a half years (7:25), Not Christians.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**You are confusing Nero with Antiochus at the time of the Hasmonians. Those three and a half years that the sacrifices had ceased is a reference to Danie 9:27. And the abomination of desolation erected in the Temple was done by the Greeks and not Romans.
And that the Jews were making daily sacrifice to Nero is another antisemitic false accusation at the Jews. If there was such a thing, it was forced at the threat of death, and done by Hellenistic Jews, just like Paul.
And regarding change of the times with the Gregorian calendar, it was a Catholic change; therefore, Christian. Besides, Paul himself left it very clear that it doesn’t matter to choose
any day one wants to keep as long as he or she is certain of his or her own conscience. That’s in Romans 14:5.**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Christians surely have a weird way to thank us for having given them a god to worship. Check History and see how many Jewish lives we have lost at Christian hands.
Ben:
**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Hi LSG. Thanks for such a golden post. Very encouraging! It’s interesting that I do see a lot of similarity between the Pauline Christology and Mitraism, as well as Hellenism. I think you are right about Paul being mentally sick.Ben, nice to see you here. And nice to see you fomenting discussion as usual.
Christians seem to have created a new religion ABOUT Yahushua, rather than observing what he told folks to do. LSG
Ben:
**
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
[No message]
M
matahari
Guest
Hi Ben, everyone knows that the Jews were the Chosen People. They were chosen for a purpose i.e. to announce God’s Revelation to the world, which, with some notable exceptions like Daniel, Jonah etc., they failed to do. The Blessed Virgin Mary co-operated with God to give us "The Saviour of the World " The Lord Jesus is not your exclusive property. He belongs to us all ! Thats the Good News of the gospels !**Well, at least I made you feel nostalgic, and perhaps younger. And maybe, you won’t do it again, because you must have detected that I am not here to win Catholics away, but to claim Jesus as one of our own, which is exactly what he was: A Jew and not a Christian.
Ben:
C
cthulhubryan
Guest
Nino;5013024:
**The Church exists from about 30 years after Jesus had been gone, when Paul founded it in Antioch. Read Acts 11:26. Now, it’s your turn to prove to me with a quote in your own NT that the Church existed from before the NT. Go ahead. I am all ears.
Ben:
Ben, you sound like you swallowed the very bad works of Hyam Maccoby. I suppose that next you will try to convince us that because Paul wrote many of his epistles before the Gospels were written that Paul had an over-arching influence on the Gospels as well?
Building your house on the very bad foundation of misguided writers such as Maccoby is never a good idea.
- Status