**I am taling about Jesus and not about Paul. This, I know that he loved to talk about going to the Gentiles but never left the Jews in peace. What passage are you referring to by saying that Jesus sent the Apostles out to the Gentiles? On the contrary, he would forbid them to go unto the Gentiles. Read Matthew 10:5. **It’s the Gospel of Matthew not, not the Gospel of Paul. Why the sudden switch to being a literalist. Yes he says that, but his actions said different. If he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel he wouldn’t have extended the Messianic blessings to the gentiles. (Mt 15:24; Jn 4:4-7; Mt 8:5-7)
I’ll give you this, Jesus was concerned primarily with the Israelites when he was alive, but when he said he was the good shepard he also said he had another flock (Jn 10:16). Sending the apostles out to the Gentiles, after his ressurection, is fulfilling the worldwide kingdom of David (uniting Israel and the Gentiles into a single covenant family). So yes, salvation does come from the Jews.
**That speech in Acts 2 was never delivered at all. First, if you read Acts 2:14, that introduction could never come from a Jew speaking to Jews. Second, Peter was not an anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. He knew that the Romans had been the ones and not the Jews. Third, that speech was never delivered but only written by a Gentile called Luke.You miss alot because all you do is focus on Paul. There wasn’t a peaceful coexisting when Jesus was alive or after his resurrection. Peter already preached Jesus as the ressurrected Messiah in Acts 2 and the trouble starts in Acts 4
I can cherry pick also. Hebrew Scriptures are for it. Read Daniel 12:2, 12; Isa 25:8, 26:19-21; Job 19:25-27. Granted, this belief developed over time but it was quite mature by the time of the Maccabees.
Only to the ones who don’t understand what they are reading.
The same thing could be said of Old Testament writings (except 50+ years would be much to small a number in many cases).
what is the exact distortion of Judaism you are accussing me of?
You have no evidence that speech wasn’t given. It is your opinion. Of course the Romans did it, but the Sanhedrin delivered him up.That speech in Acts 2 was never delivered at all. First, if you read Acts 2:14, that introduction could never come from a Jew speaking to Jews. Second, Peter was not an anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. He knew that the Romans had been the ones and not the Jews. Third, that speech was never delivered but only written by a Gentile called Luke.
I admit physical resurrection is a belief that developed. I’m not saying it is a core belief, and I understand most Jews didn’t believe it. But, to say that Judaism was uniform and without diversity of thought, is dishonest. Sects of Jews did believe. I knew you’d check and the verses I quoted led to that belief.Regarding the passages you cherry picked have nothing to do with physical resurrection, and I am sure you know much better than that. You only thought I would not check them up. You are using of tricks to uphold faith, but it won’t help the Church.
Woe to him who contends with his Maker; a potsherd among potsherds of the earth! Dare the clay say to its modeler, “What are you doing?” or, “What you are making has no hands”? Woe to him who asks a father, “What are you begetting?” or a woman, “What are you giving birth to?” Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, his maker: You question me about my children, or prescribe the work of my hands for me! (Isa 45:9-11)Regarding your last question, I’ll give you one distortion of many: To claim that a religious Jew was begotten by God in an earthly woman, has room only in Greek Mythology. This is a great distortion of Judaism in the eyes of the world. It makes the unlearnt think that there is potential in Judaism for Greek Mythology.
I already provided it.**I am taling about Jesus and not about Paul. This, I know that he loved to talk about going to the Gentiles but never left the Jews in peace. What passage are you referring to by saying that Jesus sent the Apostles out to the Gentiles? On the contrary, he would forbid them to go unto the Gentiles. Read Matthew 10:5. **
There are three reasons why that commission did not derive from Jesus. First, he was a religious Jew, and the issue is not Jewish. Second, it would be a contradiction to his own words in Mark 12:29, that God is One and the only Lord. And third, the idea to baptize in the name of Jesus originated with Paul. Read Acts 19:5.I already provided it.
Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)
It’s not honest to prop up one verse as the gospel truth, and say the other never happened.
**Tell me, on your way to Isaiah 45:9-11 did you pass by Isaiah 45:5,6? That’s Jewish, and not what you guys claim about Jesus. It tells of how absolute God is One and the only Lord. **You have no evidence that speech wasn’t given. It is your opinion. Of course the Romans did it, but the Sanhedrin delivered him up.
I admit physical resurrection is a belief that developed. I’m not saying it is a core belief, and I understand most Jews didn’t believe it. But, to say that Judaism was uniform and without diversity of thought, is dishonest. Sects of Jews did believe. I knew you’d check and the verses I quoted led to that belief.
Woe to him who contends with his Maker; a potsherd among potsherds of the earth! Dare the clay say to its modeler, “What are you doing?” or, “What you are making has no hands”? Woe to him who asks a father, “What are you begetting?” or a woman, “What are you giving birth to?” Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, his maker: You question me about my children, or prescribe the work of my hands for me! (Isa 45:9-11)
Try again!
**As the visions during the night continued, I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him, He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13-14)There are three reasons why that commission did not derive from Jesus. First, he was a religious Jew, and the issue is not Jewish.
He is using the single name of Father, Son, and Spirit. But you don’t believe the Lord said “I and the Father are one.” (Jn 10:30)Second, it would be a contradiction to his own words in Mark 12:29, that God is One and the only Lord.
No it didn’t. It originated with John the Baptist.And third, the idea to baptize in the name of Jesus originated with Paul. Read Acts 19:5. ]
Ben Masada;5163476 said:**Let’s start with Matthew 10:6. Every time he sent his disciples to preach the gospel, he would forbid them to visit the Gentiles or even to enter a Samaritan town. Why? Obviously, he had his reasons. Now, read Matthew 15:26. When that Gentile woman asked him to cure her daughter. He answered and said that it was not right to take from the food of the children and throw it unto the dogs. By children he meant the Jews, and by dogs the Gentiles. I still don’t understand why he did that. But let’s read another one. Read Matthew 7:6. That was by occasion of his Sermon of the Mount. He was speaking to a crowd of Jews and said to them: “Do not give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before swine.” If he was talking to the Jews, whom was he talking about? It’s obvious isn’t it? Is it enough to prove his aversion to Gentiles or you want more? **
And thus they are still the apollumi, those lost sheep.There was no resurrection. Jews don’t believe in bodily resurrection.
It was made indeed but with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one. Nothing to do with Gentiles or Christianity. Gentiles are welcome to join, but to become part of the Jewish People and not to form a religion apart and then to claim the connection with Israel.**]
**As the visions during the night continued, I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him, He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13-14)
**That’s a reference to the return of the Jews from the exile in Babylon. One like the son of man is Israel who is refered sometimes as “he” the son of God. (Exo. 4:22,23) And coming on the clouds of heaven is a reference to their condition of free men clean of the sins that had caused the exile. Received dominion is their taking over the dominion of the whole Land of Israel. An everlasting dominion albeit conditional to their abiding by the Laws. ******
I will bless you abundantly and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants shall take possession of the gates of their enemies, and in your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing–all this because you obeyed my command.’’ (Gen 22:18)
**Descendants as countless as the stars of the sky or sands of the seashore is not to mean by number but by prohibition to be counted. When David decided to make a sense of Israel, punishment came over the whole nation because, somehow, God’s People cannot be counted. **
Wash yourselves clean! Put away your misdeeds from before my eyes; cease doing evil; learn to do good. Make justice your aim: redress the wronged, hear the orphan’s plea, defend the widow. Come now, let us set things right, says the LORD: Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow; Though they be crimson red, they may become white as wool. (Is 1:16-18)
**You forgot verse 19, which would answer the question, how?
By being willing and obedient. Obedience implies laws. **
He is using the single name of Father, Son, and Spirit. But you don’t believe the Lord said “I and the Father are one.” (Jn 10:30)
Only in the sense that anyone of us can say the same. In Hellenistic or Christian terms, absolutely not. There is no such a thing in Judaism, which was the Fatith of Jesus.
No it didn’t. It originated with John the Baptist.
No, it didn’t. What John the Baptist is alleged to have said was fabricated 50+ years after the alleged fact. There is no certainty of anything.
I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. (Mt 3:11)
John the Baptist was a Jewish man, and this is not Jewish.
Therefore, not true.
John administered a baptism by water alone as a sign of purification and repentance, in prepairation for the Messiah. But water alone cannot cleanse the soul, evidenced by the days of Noah. The Holy Spirit of God can cleanse the soul though.
This is all metaphorical.
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. (Acts 2:37-38)
You already know my opinion about that speech, which was never delivered by Peter. It never made sense to me. It serves only to engross the contradictions of the NT.
The days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers the day I took them by the hand to lead them forth from the land of Egypt; for they broke my covenant and I had to show myself their master, says the LORD. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD. I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer will they have need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know the LORD. All, from least to greatest, shall know me, says the LORD, for I will forgive their evildoing and remember their sin no more. (Jer 31:31-34)
Christians believe God is one, and is the only God. What we disagree on is the nature of God.**Tell me, on your way to Isaiah 45:9-11 did you pass by Isaiah 45:5,6? That’s Jewish, and not what you guys claim about Jesus. It tells of how absolute God is One and the only Lord. **
Get over your hatred Ben, love God and not your stiff neck.**That speech in Acts 2 was never delivered at all. First, if you read Acts 2:14, that introduction could never come from a Jew speaking to Jews. Second, Peter was not an anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. He knew that the Romans had been the ones and not the Jews. Third, that speech was never delivered but only written by a Gentile called Luke.
Regarding your last question, I’ll give you one distortion of many: To claim that a religious Jew was begotten by God in an earthly woman, has room only in Greek Mythology. This is a great distortion of Judaism in the eyes of the world. It makes the unlearnt think that there is potential in Judaism for Greek Mythology.**
Ben, Ben, Ben. You ever get tired of your hatred of God?
You wish you could love God as much as I do. At least, my love for God is unconditional. Yours is based in the rewards of an afterlife as was Paul’s in the resurrection of the dead. (I Cor. 15:32)
The purpose of the story of His encounter with the Samaritan woman was to show that the Kingdom of Heaven IS open to all. You chose (quite misleadingly) to exclude Matthew 15:27-28 where it shows that by faith IN CHRIST the gentile woman is made worthy of the kingdom of God.
**One thing has nothing to do with the other. **
Again in Matthew 10:6 you hide behind half truths and lies. Here He is telling the disciples to talk to Jews, yes. But not because they are good but because they are the lost, the apollumi which means those destined for the fires of hell. Jesus is trying to save the Jews by showing them the new convenant. Do not bring in your false teaching of Replacement Theology here, as it is more of your anti-Catholic hate speech. Whenever your bring up those hurtful lies you should be reported to the mods.
Don’t try to make a fool out of me, because you won’t succeed. Jesus clearly forbade his disciples to take the gospel to the Gentiles, and even not to enter a Samaritan town. Do you think I can’t read? Read Matthew 10:5 without the Church blinders and you will be able to see.
In Matthew 7:6 Jesus is talking about not judging people. He is talking to the hypocrites, those who claim to be Holy but are not. He speaks not of gentiles but of the Sadduccess and Pharisees in Jeruselem.
**You are trying to rewrite the NT with the purpose to fix a hole in a boat in the middle of the ocean. It doesn’t help; you are going straight to the bottom. Jesus spoke to the crowds of Jews listening to him. **
Take the beam from your eye, Ben.
I promise I will if you take the whole Church out of yours. Anyone can see that you open your eyes only to what your Church allows you to see. That’s a pity! What happened to freewill?.
There is no hatred in my heart. If you don’t have anything to teach me, you are wasting your time appealing to my emotions. The way to the heart of a Jew is through his mind. You should know much better that Jews are not stupid people. A man begotten by God is possible only in Greek Mythology. Jesus was a Jew. There is no such a thing in Judaism.Get over your hatred Ben, love God and not your stiff neck.
Acts 2 was delivered despite your hate filled protestations.
Jesus begotten by God in an earthy woman has it’s echos in the story of Genesis. Again, stop your hate mongering.
Wrong, the two are completely interlinked.**One thing has nothing to do with the other. **
No, I’d never stop you in your efforts to do that.**Don’t try to make a fool out of me, because you won’t succeed. **
Nope, just quoting the Word of God. He did speak to crowds of Jews as they were the very apollumi he was talking about.**You are trying to rewrite the NT with the purpose to fix a hole in a boat in the middle of the ocean. It doesn’t help; you are going straight to the bottom. Jesus spoke to the crowds of Jews listening to him. **
We all have free will. The Methodist Church forces nothing on me. It is that self-same freewill that causes you to be one of the apollumi, a lost sheep of Israel.I promise I will if you take the whole Church out of yours. Anyone can see that you open your eyes only to what your Church allows you to see. That’s a pity! What happened to freewill?.
There is obviously such a thing in the mind of God, for it happened.There is no hatred in my heart. If you don’t have anything to teach me, you are wasting your time appealing to my emotions. The way to the heart of a Jew is through his mind. You should know much better that Jews are not stupid people. A man begotten by God is possible only in Greek Mythology. Jesus was a Jew. There is no such a thing in Judaism.
If Jesus is Lord and Savior, his New Covenant in not a new religion apart from Israel.**It was made indeed but with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one. Nothing to do with Gentiles or Christianity. Gentiles are welcome to join, but to become part of the Jewish People and not to form a religion apart and then to claim the connection with Israel. **
**God is absolutely One and incorporeal at that. Listen Ryanoneil, do you think we Jews are stupid? Psalm 110 about “the Lord said to my Lord” is so clear that I wonder how you don’t see through it. It has to be something from outside pulling the strings.Christians believe God is one, and is the only God. What we disagree on is the nature of God.
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus questioned them, saying, “What is your opinion about the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They replied, “David’s.” He said to them, “How, then, does David, inspired by the Spirit, call him ‘lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet”’? If David calls him ‘lord,’ how can he be his son?” No one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare to ask him any more questions. (Mt 22:41-46)
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Acts 2:34-36)
First of all, Jesus never had anything to do with the NT. He was born, lived his span of life, and died, and never heard about the NT, which came out in its form in the Fourth Century. The only Scriptures he knew was the Tanach. This New Covenant you are talking about was between Paul and Christians. And Jesus was neither Lord nor Savior. He himself said that God is the only Lord. (Mark 12:29) And according to Isaiah 43:11 God is the only Savior.If Jesus is Lord and Savior, his New Covenant in not a new religion apart from Israel.
**I suppose Jesus was also a lost sheep of Israel? He was a Jewish man, whose Faith was Judaism. So am I. Come on Cthulhubryan! Stop fighting against the Truth! Don’t you see yourself on the opposite side of Jesus and myself? How much is it possible not to understand the obvious? Are you embarrassed to give in to Jesus? You know he was Jewish and you are a Christian. How much opposite do you want to stand to each other? Ponder! **We all have free will. The Methodist Church forces nothing on me. It is that self-same freewill that causes you to be one of the apollumi, a lost sheep of Israel.