The Mark of the Beast

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As a slight departure, older manuscripts discovered show the number to be 616.

However, I doubt the popularity of the 666 will fade, possibly contributing to people’s inability to recognize it when it comes, dismissing those who point it out as ‘conspiracy theorists’.
 
cthulhubryan said:
Once again you choose to obscure and insult. “Thy will, not mine” does not mean that He went unwillingly.

Wrong again, I was simply using your own logic (or lack thereof) after all you are the one who came in with the lies about “replacement theology”

It became his agenda when He began his ministry.

Again, you reply with insults when you run out of other things to say. What does it mean to die stupidly?** If you lay down your life to save your child then to me it is valiant and a thing of love but to you it is stupid**.
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And the reason for that is that since there is nothing but this life why would you give your life for your children? Or since “choosing” to love someone can only end in missery why choose to love your children to that extreme?
 
Ben_Masada said:
**How about the Concordata sighned between Hitler and Pope Pius XI, so that Hitler should overlook the interests of the Church in his Final Solution of the Jews? Was that a myth too? **
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Pope Pius did so much for your people it isn’t funny. Your own kind wrote several books about this wonderful pope, and there were Jews who converted.
 
Ben, Good replies to all my comments.

I can truly see by them your tenacity to stick by your beliefs of which is admirable.

Listen, that is why Jesus could not be seen as the expected Messiah, for the blindness that happened to Israel was due to the zeal for the law.

It was ordained to be that way for our sakes (non-Jews), so that I a non-Jew could have equal access with the Jew, the Father via Jesus.

Your Messiah will come to you via His Spirit to your heart at the time appointed, but for now, it remains as it were.

By faith is the grace of God received just as it was accounted to Abraham God’s righteousness via His obedience.

Meantime, dear brother, I am by faith in Jesus’ sacrifice happy and glad that I have no ill will towards any Jew, but rather appreciation, compassion and gratitude for the sufferings of a scattered people, who definitely presented the God of creation to us.

Our differences will be as one when that day comes when God will reveal His true Messiah to all those who don’t know Him.

Blessing’s, AJ
 
My question is: Were there two Jesuses, one in Nazareth and the other in Egypt or there were to Solomon’s trying to split one Jesus in two?>>>Ben
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To be true to the message of salvation, the only Jesus spoken of is the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.
That of twain has made one people.
There is nether Jew nor Greek, bond or free, circumcised nor uncircumcised, but of the two, one.
For he that is truly circumcised is circumcised in heart and not of the outer appearance of the flesh, as circumcised, that makes the true Jew.
The Jew is a similitude of Abel who was slain by Cain who in turn is a similitude of the marked man for death, Jesus.
Jesus (Cain) slays His brother the Jew spiritually while the Jew slays Cain sevenfold when they found Him.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Are you familiar with this verse: Deu 28:44 He shall lend to thee (Jew), and thou shalt not lend to him (Jesus): he shall be the head (Jesus), and thou (Jew) shalt be the tail.

How about this one: Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

Jesus came in as the tail, while the Jew was the head, but “this day” God changed it at the cross.

Jesus was a Prince to be King and became King only at the cross where the Jews truly labeled Him correctly.

It was “that day” when God mightily used the Jews in an angelic way to bring about the salvation of mankind.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Jesus smote them spiritually(Israel) from the birthright to God the Father, while Israel smote the Son of God, the second born, in an offering for the world so that of twain, God has made unto Himself one body, of which Christ is the head, and the new name of God.

Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Yes, one God, and the God of all mankind of which Christ is His new name by which all mankind can be saved.

You are my brother!

Blessings’, AJ
 
sambos671 said:
But Ben by your own words they are not. Did you not say that the Jews don’t care what the goyim believe as long as they hold the Noahic law? What light is there when the society’s is a closed one caring less what the rest of the world does? And according to you the only reason God keeps a reminent of Jews on earth is to prevent the unraveling of his creation. Oh and to massage his ego in praise to himself. Because in the end there is nothing and from the begining there is nothing. Just now. What kind of light is that?
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**That’s the light of the true knowledge of God. And that’s one of the reasons for Jewish exiles. We are not supposed to monopolize the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth according to Psalm 147:19,20. Our mission is to spread the knowledge of God unto the nations. When we keep it to ourselves, exiles happen and we have to go.

Now, with regards to “massaging God’s ego,” if you are no joking, you are being too anthropomorphic. God is not like a man to have ego. God is incorporeal.

When I said that I care less was in reference to conversion to Judaism, which no one needs, as long as everyone sticks to the Noahite laws. But instructions in the Word of God, it’s our mission to provide, according to Isaiah 2:3. **
 
cthulhubryan said:
Once again you choose to obscure and insult. “Thy will, not mine” does not mean that He went unwillingly.

Yes, it does. The problem is that the blinders of faith don’t set you free to understand.

Wrong again, I was simply using your own logic (or lack thereof) after all you are the one who came in with the lies about “replacement theology”

Lies! And you tell me that I am the one who insults. That’s another evidence to prove your lack of understanding of what you read. Galatians 4:21-31 is the “Magna Carta” of Replacement Theology. I don’t wonder why Catholics cannot see that.

It became his agenda when He began his ministry.

That’s not true. The episode of the Gethsemane occurred three and a half years within the Ministry of Jesus. That’s enough time for him to change his mind, and it still was not his will to die on the cross. Really embarrassing that you cannot see the truth.

Again, you reply with insults when you run out of other things to say. What does it mean to die stupidly? If you lay down your life to save your child then to me it is valiant and a thing of love but to you it is stupid.

That’s exactly what it is: Stupid. By fighting, I may save my life and that of my child. By stupidly laying my life down, I may lose both mine and that of my child. What you are defending is a cop-out without any meaning. A clishe that has no truth in it.
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cthulhubryan said:
Yes and no. As is your normal tactic you have again lied and obfuscated the facts.

You are referring to the Reichskonkordat that is still in effect today. It was signed as an agreement between Pope Pius XI and German President Paul von Hindenburg (not Hitler) It required German clergy to agree to obey the constitutional government (give unto caesar) and guaranteed the Catholic Church freedom in the Catholic regions of Germany. It had nothing to do with the final solution or with Jews at all.
Hitler broke the agreement in 1937 by arresting Bishops and priests. This made the Pope put out the encyclical (Of Burning Concern) which, by the way, was the first condemnation of Hitler by any international leader and was done 9 months before the Anschluss.
Or perhaps Paul came down from heaven and used the Men in Black memory light to rewrite history?
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**“Yes and no!” What kind of answer is that? When I said Hitler, I meant with Hitler’s Governament. I thought I didn’t have to explain certain things to people who exhibit fake wisdom. To sign a Concordat with a crazy criminal to protect the Church at a times when millions were in danger of extermination is enough to melt bones.

How merciful was to put out the encyclical “Of Burning Concern” because Hitler arrested of a few priests! I thought the condemnation was for his policy against millions of peoples. Now, why do I have any reason to believe you? The easiest word in the mouth of every liar is to accuse others of telling lies. You do this to me in almost every post. **
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Pope Pius did so much for your people it isn’t funny. Your own kind wrote several books about this wonderful pope, and there were Jews who converted.
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**We all wonder if there were many more Jews in Europe than six million. We all also know that the Church could have done a lot more than what it did, considering that Hitler was a born Catholic.

I have met a few Jews who have converted as a result of the Holocaust. That’s History repeating itself. In ancient wars the conquered had to adopt the gods of the conqueror.**
 
look3467 said:
Ben,

Listen, that is why Jesus could not be seen as the expected Messiah, for the blindness that happened to Israel was due to the zeal for the law.

**In that case, Jesus was the first blind one for having confirmed the Law down to the letter, even to the dot of the letter. Besides, he warned us all to do the same and teach it thus. (Mat. 5:19) **

It was ordained to be that way for our sakes (non-Jews), so that I a non-Jew could have equal access with the Jew, the Father via Jesus.

**Your access to the Father, is via the People and not an individual in particular. Jesus himself said that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22) **

Your Messiah will come to you via His Spirit to your heart at the time appointed, but for now, it remains as it were.

**Our Messiah has come already, according to Ezekiel 37:12. **

By faith is the grace of God received just as it was accounted to Abraham God’s righteousness via His obedience.

What is the difference between obedience by faith or by duty as long we obey? It’s obedience of the Law which keeps us out of trouble.

Meantime, dear brother, I am by faith in Jesus’ sacrifice happy and glad that I have no ill will towards any Jew, but rather appreciation, compassion and gratitude for the sufferings of a scattered people, who definitely presented the God of creation to us.

That’s beautiful! The only thing regretable is that you have changed the character of the God of Creation we have presented to you.

Our differences will be as one when that day comes when God will reveal His true Messiah to all those who don’t know Him.

The true Messiah is Israel, the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habak. 3:13)

A special blessing to you from Yerushalaim.]

Ben
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look3467 said:
To be true to the message of salvation, the only Jesus spoken of is the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.
That of twain has made one people.
There is nether Jew nor Greek, bond or free, circumcised nor uncircumcised, but of the two, one.
For he that is truly circumcised is circumcised in heart and not of the outer appearance of the flesh, as circumcised, that makes the true Jew.
The Jew is a similitude of Abel who was slain by Cain who in turn is a similitude of the marked man for death, Jesus.
Jesus (Cain) slays His brother the Jew spiritually while the Jew slays Cain sevenfold when they found Him.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Are you familiar with this verse: Deu 28:44 He shall lend to thee (Jew), and thou shalt not lend to him (Jesus): he shall be the head (Jesus), and thou (Jew) shalt be the tail.

How about this one: Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

Jesus came in as the tail, while the Jew was the head, but “this day” God changed it at the cross.

Jesus was a Prince to be King and became King only at the cross where the Jews truly labeled Him correctly.

It was “that day” when God mightily used the Jews in an angelic way to bring about the salvation of mankind.

Isa 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Jesus smote them spiritually(Israel) from the birthright to God the Father, while Israel smote the Son of God, the second born, in an offering for the world so that of twain, God has made unto Himself one body, of which Christ is the head, and the new name of God.

Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Yes, one God, and the God of all mankind of which Christ is His new name by which all mankind can be saved.

You are my brother!

Blessings’, AJ
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Sorry but this post of yours has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**That’s the light of the true knowledge of God. And that’s one of the reasons for Jewish exiles. We are not supposed to monopolize the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth according to Psalm 147:19,20. Our mission is to spread the knowledge of God unto the nations. When we keep it to ourselves, exiles happen and we have to go.

Now, with regards to “massaging God’s ego,” if you are no joking, you are being too anthropomorphic. God is not like a man to have ego. God is incorporeal.

When I said that I care less was in reference to conversion to Judaism, which no one needs, as long as everyone sticks to the Noahite laws. But instructions in the Word of God, it’s our mission to provide, according to Isaiah 2:3. **
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Well, we agree with one thing. One of the reasons for the exiles is because the jews refused to spread the word of God. Not the only reason mind you since God was fulfilling his law after long suffering and clearing the land due to idolatry giving it its sabbath rest. As far as God and worship of God you accuse me of being Anthropomorphic. Ok I can buy that (which I purposely was) but explain to me why God necessitates the requirement of Praise to himself? indeed God is not a man. Also God does not have the needs of man so why require worship in this context? After all when the singing is over there is nothing.
 
sambos671 said:
Well, we agree with one thing. One of the reasons for the exiles is because the jews refused to spread the word of God. Not the only reason mind you since God was fulfilling his law after long suffering and clearing the land due to idolatry giving it its sabbath rest. As far as God and worship of God you accuse me of being Anthropomorphic. Ok I can buy that (which I purposely was) but explain to me why God necessitates the requirement of Praise to himself? indeed God is not a man. Also God does not have the needs of man so why require worship in this context? After all when the singing is over there is nothing.
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Sambos, prayer to God, praising God, worshipping God, it’s all psychologically for our own good. God does not need any of theses things from us. God does not require anything from us, but that we be good to each other by living and let live.
 
Ben_Masada said:
Sambos, prayer to God, praising God, worshipping God, it’s all psychologically for our own good. God does not need any of theses things from us. God does not require anything from us, but that we be good to each other by living and let live.
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So its inherent in our design. Why? Why would a creator who gives life then ends it require us to worship him. He designed us this way. Also a living God who designs humans with a terminal existance seems strange. Why the planned obsolesence? Why? Also what do you think the Torah means when God tells Adam if he ate of the fruit he would die?
 
sambos671 said:
So its inherent in our design. Why? Why would a creator who gives life then ends it require us to worship him. He designed us this way. Also a living God who designs humans with a terminal existance seems strange. Why the planned obsolesence? Why? Also what do you think the Torah means when God tells Adam if he ate of the fruit he would die?
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**What is inherent in our design Sambos? I didn’t get it. God gives us life through birth. It goes with the same package that we have to die, because we have been born. I told you in the previous post that God does not require anything of us but to choose to live our whole span of life and promote our happiness by living and let live.

God does not design anyone with a terminal existence. Our existence has to end because it started. Everything that has a beginning must have an end. Why question God, Sambos? Is something wrong with you or yours?

Now, regarding what the Torah says about the prohibition to eat of the forbidden fruit, do you remember what happened after Adam and Eve ate from that fruit? Something died in them. Their naivete and ignorance. That’s when they woke up for the beginning of wisdom.
The prohibition was only to increase the curiosity. And physical death they had already for the sheer reason that they had been born.**
 
Ben_Masada said:
**What is inherent in our design Sambos? I didn’t get it. God gives us life through birth. It goes with the same package that we have to die, because we have been born. I told you in the previous post that God does not require anything of us but to choose to live our whole span of life and promote our happiness by living and let live.

God does not design anyone with a terminal existence. Our existence has to end because it started. Everything that has a beginning must have an end. Why question God, Sambos? Is something wrong with you or yours?

Now, regarding what the Torah says about the prohibition to eat of the forbidden fruit, do you remember what happened after Adam and Eve ate from that fruit? Something died in them. Their naivete and ignorance. That’s when they woke up for the beginning of wisdom.
The prohibition was only to increase the curiosity. And physical death they had already for the sheer reason that they had been born.**
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From you POV Adam (Adamah) and Eve would have died anyway as a result of being alive. So the fact that they were promised death means only that they had a dead conscience. or dead innocense? Living 920 years what was that about? Also it doesn’t make sence. Looking at the physics of the universe nothing ever goes out of existance. it just changes form. Matter degrades into energy. Engery (if you have enough of it) can turn back into matter. It seems to me the same principle applies to all things. If God who is eternally living decides to start something why would he design it to fall apart and end in nothing? See it has to be in the design. Since Matter and Energy are always existant and we are made of that “stuff” then we take on its characteristics. Yet we, according to you, end in nothing. But this goes against the inherent characteristic of the universe. And since this is so it must be in our design. Ie planned obsolesence. There is nothing wrong with me or mine. If you are correct and I am incorrect I would lay down in peace having done no ill against man or God. I would have the satisfaction of a full life and having genetically passed on my DNA which in your sence is the only thing that is long lasting. I’ve enjoyed this creation. No problem here. But I’m speaking to the Character of God, creation, and physics. This death doesn’t seem to fall into the catagory as a certain necessity. But rather an additive to creaton.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**“Yes and no!” What kind of answer is that? When I said Hitler, I meant with Hitler’s Governament. I thought I didn’t have to explain certain things to people who exhibit fake wisdom. To sign a Concordat with a crazy criminal to protect the Church at a times when millions were in danger of extermination is enough to melt bones.

How merciful was to put out the encyclical “Of Burning Concern” because Hitler arrested of a few priests! I thought the condemnation was for his policy against millions of peoples. Now, why do I have any reason to believe you? The easiest word in the mouth of every liar is to accuse others of telling lies. You do this to me in almost every post. **
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Truly, you are an angry and abusive person. If you read, or cared about Truth, you would realize what I said is the truth. “Of Burning Concern” occurred a full 20 months before Kristal Nacht. The Night of Broken Glass is the beginning of serious anti-Jewish pogroms. Before the issuance of the encyclical only Sachsenhausen was fully operational.Pius XI’s diatribe against Hitler took place 6 months before Buchenwald and over a year before the invasion of Poland.

Before you continue your tirades please get your facts straight. I have yet to tell the first lie. You lie all the time.

Let’s take your BIG LIE
St. Paul (Gal 4:21-31):
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written:
“Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”
Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
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This simply states that Christians are of the line of Isaac. Which is clearly a no brainer. It says that we too are children of God’s covenant while the Ishmaelites are not.

If you say that this is some sort of “Replacement Theology” then you are a true bigot and need to be banned from these boards for your bigotry. Jesus came to fulfill the law, Jesus is the new Adam, the New Abraham, the New Moses. This is clear from scripture. Your twisted lies which come either from your mental instability or from Satan are pure garbage. The words we have from Christ, came from Christ. Not from Paul. People such as A. N. Wilson have tried to claim that Paul was the inventor of Christianity but this is not true. Read a scholarly work such as “What Saint Paul Really Said: Was Paul of Tarsus the Real Founder of Christianity?” by N. T. Wright, and then get over this terrible prejudice you have against truth.
 
sambos671 said:
And the reason for that is that since there is nothing but this life why would you give your life for your children? Or since “choosing” to love someone can only end in missery why choose to love your children to that extreme?
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I’m sorry for you if you believe that.
 
cthulhubryan said:
I’m sorry for you if you believe that.
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You haven’t been following Ben Massada and my post. I’ve been following yours. If you had been following my post with Ben you would see its my view of Bens overall theology. I personally don’t believe that but I believe if you hold to what Ben is proposing by default you would have to have a world view that looks that way. So far he’s proved me out by his comment to a post that giving his life to protect his child’s life is stupid. So take it as it is. I tend to be sarcastic though its not often picked up.
 
sambos671 said:
You haven’t been following Ben Massada and my post. I’ve been following yours. If you had been following my post with Ben you would see its my view of Bens overall theology. I personally don’t believe that but I believe if you hold to what Ben is proposing by default you would have to have a world view that looks that way. So far he’s proved me out by his comment to a post that giving his life to protect his child’s life is stupid. So take it as it is. I tend to be sarcastic though its not often picked up.
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That is more or less what I assumed, but wasn’t sure.
 
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