The Marriage Amendment

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The State of Minnesota will be voting this November on the Marriage Amendment. The Amendment is designed to officially define marriage legally as being between one man and one woman. While the stereotypical view of Minnesota is a lot of Lutherans eating their lutefisk in the Church Basement (which really is entirely true…:D) it is a blue state that has very liberal leanings. I am truthfully concerned about this November vote.

We have a ‘Vote Yes: One Man, One Woman’ sign in our yard… but when I go to the sidewalk and look down the street, I am overwhelmed by the number of bright orange “Vote No!” signs. Having the sign in our yard has already identified us as hate filled bigots by some. It feels like a battle that can’t be won. Losing this nearly guarantees the legalization of same-sex “marriages” in our state.

Please pray. Please join me in prayer for my state, and the others who are voting this year on the same issue. I believe there are five states total that are voting on this issue.
I think that the trend is too strong to stop. There is a lot of momentum. Even if the MN measure passes, it will probably be overturned. My advice would be to avoid the expense and animosity of a losing battle.
 
I think that the trend is too strong to stop. There is a lot of momentum. Even if the MN measure passes, it will probably be overturned. My advice would be to avoid the expense and animosity of a losing battle.
Epan,

cmon…as a Methodist you probably read the Bible once or twice…you know how it is…
“I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness …” (2 Thes 4:7, 8)
Acts 20:24.However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me–the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.
Gal 2:2. I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain.
1Timothy 1:18. Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight,
Ephesians 6:12. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Now any good warrior, any good athlete will continue even if they think they are going to lose…because on any given day it is the end result of how and what you did. It isn’t about winning and losing…

Hey Coach, I know I am going to lose, so I am just going to give up…well then you need to think about competing with another team…my friend…because on this team win or lose you will and must give all your efforts for it is not the victory…but the effort that counts…

Cmon now…
 
Epan,

cmon…as a Methodist you probably read the Bible once or twice…you know how it is…

Now any good warrior, any good athlete will continue even if they think they are going to lose…because on any given day it is the end result of how and what you did. It isn’t about winning and losing…

Hey Coach, I know I am going to lose, so I am just going to give up…well then you need to think about competing with another team…my friend…because on this team win or lose you will and must give all your efforts for it is not the victory…but the effort that counts…

Cmon now…
Every good warrior chooses his battles, and tries to live to fight another day.

I just think that, given the momentum of the gay rights movement, at this point in history, that the outcome is inevitable. A lot of money has been spent on this, and a lot of time, which could be used on other things which have more likelihood of achieving success.

But, if it is your passion to fight this fight, then go for it.
 
Every good warrior chooses his battles, and tries to live to fight another day.

I just think that, given the momentum of the gay rights movement, at this point in history, that the outcome is inevitable. A lot of money has been spent on this, and a lot of time, which could be used on other things which have more likelihood of achieving success.

But, if it is your passion to fight this fight, then go for it.
Epan,

It’s not to late to give up your support for the LGBT agenda…
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See his banners go!
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
At the sign of triumph
Satan’s host doth flee;
On, then, Christian soldiers,
On to victory.
Hell’s foundations quiver
At the shout of praise;
Brothers, lift your voices,
Loud your anthems raise.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Like a mighty army
Moves the Church of God;
Brothers, we are treading
Where the Saints have trod.
We are not divided;
All one body we:
One in hope and doctrine,
One in charity.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Onward, then, ye people;
Join our happy throng.
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song:
Glory, laud, and honor
Unto Christ, the King.
This through countless ages
Men and angels sing.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Recall the words of Paul…
31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”
37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If yer not wit us yer agin us…cmon Epan…march with us…🙂
 
I think that the trend is too strong to stop. There is a lot of momentum. Even if the MN measure passes, it will probably be overturned. My advice would be to avoid the expense and animosity of a losing battle.
There should not be any animosity on the part of Christians. There should, however, be determined resistance to any redefinition of marriage to mean anything other than what God intended it to be. No matter how much animosity comes from those who are militant about forcing everyone to recognize the mockery that is same sex “marriage” as legitimate, Christians must turn the other cheek- yet continue their opposition.
 
Just checking back in about my earlier report about the political, Vote “no” group that was set up inside my gym.

I got a letter back from the company and they apologized for this and that in fact the gym didn’t give these people permission to set up and distribute materials. Apparently they simply were squatting in the spot and being that it is large gym the management didn’t know about it for a few hours. So, upon finding out the management kicked them out of the gym. My letter did prompt the company to send notices out to their gyms that this activity is strictly prohibited.

Takes some guts to just setup a table and start handing out information and talking to customers inside a business without asking permission. It just shows you that they have no regard for anyone else.
 
I wouldn’t worry to be honest. A lot of people are not ready to see marriage between gay couples even if they don’t attend church. Florida already voted for that last time and the majority voted yes.

And lets say it does pass in Minnesota, you could always fight for it to change and educate those that need spiritual guidance.
 
Folks are so ancious to vote yes or no on this subject.

Here in Ohio, folks voted yes that marriage is for one man and one woman. What they failed to do was to read the fine print, and the powers that be were hopeing they would not.

What that law has done was to take many rights away from married folks. Of the many changes it has made, The biggest reason why I voted against it was that the new law took away the couple’s right to a common law marriage.

I have friends who have ‘jumped over the broom stick’ or have had other open forum marriage ceremonies. Some of these men and women are christian, but in all the cases they just don’t want to give the government the money to officially state with a certificate for the wall what they already knew as the truth.

Believe me, Civil marriage and a proper marriage before God ARE two different things. The state’s reaction to one such marriage of one of my friends is a great example. My friend’s husband passed away last November. Now that common law marriage doesn’t exist in this state, she has to fight a corporation to simply keep her house long enough to raise their two kids in. After they are grown, she doesn’t care if the corporation takes the whole thing and bulldozes it. She has enough in the bank to survive, but she would not be able to afford an apartment AND to feed the kids till they are 18. I applaud here and agree with her that her presence in the home while they are in elementary though H.S. is much more important to their upbringing.

Also, Before this Marriage is for One man and One woman law, Karen and Greg’s marriage was legal even to the point that Greg’s insurance covered the children’s medical expenses. Now the medical insurance also has been withdrawn on the review because the kids were not ‘proven’ to be Greg’s.

I tell y’all this because you need to be careful what you are so quickly reacting to. This law too will take many rights away from those folks who are already in common law relationships. It isn’t easy digging up the cash to give to a government entity in exchange for a worthless piece of paper for the wall. It is SILLY to think they should.

Don’t be so reactive
No vote by the people or legislation by the state can make invalid a marriage by common-law which was entered into prior to the vote or the law being created. The law can prevent any more common-law marriages from being entered into within their state BUT they cannot refuse to “recognize” a common-law marriage if it was created in a state that has not by statute, outlawed such marriages.

All states must recognize the public acts and laws of its sister states and this is according to Article 4 of the US Constitution which says:
*
“Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.”*

Your friend needs to contact an attorney who works in family law within your state. If Ohio code did not forbid the creation of common-law marriages and your friend and her husband entered into one, then all she has to do is show the state that her marriage existed by presenting tax forms, mortgage papers, children’s school records showing Mr. and Mrs., a driver’s license with the same last name, joint savings accounts or other such items that would show they held themselves in public as man and wife. She can even have family and friends sign affidavits stating they knew the couple to be married. Once this is provided to the state then the state must prove the marriage did not exist.

Contrary to folklore, you need not live together for a specified amount of time but in fact can marry each other by acts of public behavior or even by saying the words to each other and then acting on those words and promises.

The right to be married existed long before the state did and the state does not like that so they injected themselves as the third party to marriage in many states. Marriages exist between a man and a woman without need of a license. Churches should be free to marry a couple without having to jump through state-spun hoops but unfortunately, we have taken what belongs to a man, his wife and God and given the authority to a lower power, another man in the form of a state.

Common-law marriages are 100% as legal as a civil marriage or a state-licensed church wedding but for some reason which I have never understood, the myths around them are great.

And with the right information provided to church officials, a common-law marriage can become sacramental in the Catholic Church.🙂
 
I see in your profile that you are a recent convert to catholocism. While you believe that the government should have no say in who is married and who isn’t, the Word of God tells us differently, the Church that Jesus Christ established tells us differently, our Holy Father tells us differently.
Is it the Word of God that tells us we must give a government the right to “permit” by license us to marry? Or is it the government which tells the church they are forbidden to marry without a license? I think it is the latter and it is in my opinion, the state infringing on religious freedom.

Whether or not the church recognizes or performs marriages without a license depends upon the laws of the country where the marriage is in question.
 
I think the only way to combat what you are talking about is for religious people to begin to support abolishing civil marriage completely and putting marriege back in the hands of the non-secular or otherwise private/personal sector. We must seperate marriage and the state in order to save marriage. The only other option is to support stripping ALL financial and legal benefits from civil marriage. This is afterall the overwhelming reason the gay lobby wants access to civil marriage. And a heterosexual couple who wishes to marry should by all ethical measures have no need or desire for the state benefits. If they want those, then one can simply set them up via an attorney or other state form that would have nothing to do with civil marriage, just as single people need to do if they can someone close to them to have visitation rights if they are in the hospital, be a beneficiary or what have you…
I agree with you on taking the state out of marriage. Another person said the sate will become involved because disputes “inevitably” arise. No, they do not inevitably arise and many people in common-law marriages live to a ripe old age in wedded bliss. If there is a dispute in the marriage, it to should be dissolved in private unless there are property disputes or custody of minor issues. The only time a state need be involved in anything is to protect us from each other and when that is needed in a marriage, then the state can be asked to step in.

As far as getting rid of marriage benefits…Those benefits should stay in place as they are part of the contract between the man and the woman. Marriage is a society creates stability and sometimes when things are at their worst in a marriage, people stay together for those benefits. That is not always such a bad thing because those sometimes stupid little things which bind us like health insurance of the spouse and reduced tax burdens are the same little things that can “buy” extra time during which the marriage can be saved and even brough back to a good point.
 
Sorry, but this is no Catholic view. The governemnt is not simply some arbitrary organization that simply happens to be involved in our life. There is a duty for the government to protect marriage.
The government can and does protect marriage when needed and it does so for common-law marriages which are unlicensed but 100% the same as civil marriages. All common-law marriages must end by death or by divorce. They cannot be ended by simply walking away although many people think that to be a fact. Why should I have to ask the state for permission to enter into a marriage which is a right given to me by God before the state was created?

The state can still say who can marry such as how distant a cousin must be before you can marry them. However, making that law does not prevent the illicit and illegal marriages from occurring. When you apply for a license you do not have to provide a family tree to prove you are not related but rather you raise your hand and swear you are truthful. If nobody ever questions it, the marriage continues until it ends by death or divorce. Do we know in fact that all marriages are within the law? No, we do not. Having the state give you permission does not prevent illicit marriages.
 
Perhaps I’m just not Catholic then.

I totally disagree. The only subject is actually all about the money. The duty for the government is to work FOR the people …Unfortunately the government IS getting involved in our life, and you are right. It is not arbitrarily as you put it. It is all about the money they can collect from us and not call it a TAX. It is NOT the Government’s duty to protect marriage, we need to protect our Families and our Ideals of marriage. The only interest the Government has in this whole affair is to collect MONEY. There is nothing about protection involved. It is all about the money.

The Government can STICK that piece of paper where the sun don’t shine.
There is a definite reason there is a separation of church and state.
Marriage certificates are one place were there should continue to be a separation.
Watch it, if they could figure out a reason they would demand a Baptismal certificate too just so they could collect the fee. That IS the issue, it is all about the money.

As for myself, I do guarantee one thing. I will never get married in a civil court again. If that means I’ll never have a spouse again. I’m Fine with that. I didn’t have a spouse present for the last 10 of our 15 year marriage and I’ve been doing good on my own for the last 10.

To top it off, I only make 50K a year, yet was saddled with a broken down house and all the debt from the marriage. Now he has gone through his 300K retirement in only 10 years, receives social security and is seeking through our grand government systems (court) more money from me in the form of support.
Thank God I saved all the bill reports I could to prove that the debt I’m still paying for was all incurred by him.
But my point is, I should not have to go through this. If the marriage is 50 50 in assets it should be in debt too. Just because one person is working and the other is retired should not mean the working person has to pay the debt… now it is the Government that is allowing him to come back to me financially.

BTW, So this can end on good news… I just found out this week that my friend who I mentioned before has won her court case and she gets to stay on the property and in the house and the court DID confirm that the two were married despite there not being a certificate. She is appealing the insurance companies decision and is having her lawyer retrieve her husband’s inheritance (from his dad’s estate) which will sustain her and help start the kids into college.

Praise God. There are still those in this country at the judges bench who recognize that there are still common law marriages even if a so called law was signed into act by an illiterate population. (illiterate because they had blinders on and only saw it as confirming a marriage as being between one man and one woman instead of what it actually did to take rights away from that same man and woman.)
… As you notice, I’m not even touching the same sex topic. It amazes me that folks even consider it as much as those folks jump from one bed to another…Oh, yea,… I forgot… it means more money for the government in marriage certificates and divorce proceedings and decrees. Umm… I do have a short term memory at times. It is all about the money.
CatherineOH…I agree that the state does not belong in our marriages in the beginning but I do believe it is their responsibility to protect the weaker or injured party in a dispute.

And I answered you earlier about getting a good lawyer as they cannot deny her the goods of marriage. Glad she got a good attorney.
 
But the Consitution is not a Catholic document. Civil marriage therefore is a Constitutional issue, not a religious one. And, as I have said before, I personally think civil marriage has become a disgrace. It does not represent traditional marriage at all and is nothing more than a form of state sanctioned socialism and elitism disguised in an 80 dollar state marriage license. Going to the DMV for a driver’s license contains more integrity than a civil marriage in American today.
Well said! The difference is that driving is a privilege regulated by the state because of the harm we can cause on the roads. Marriage is a right and they have decided they need to give their permission.
 
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