The Masons

[benjohnson]

Any Mason just has to read his Masonic Monitor and the gibberish about Egyptian mystery religions, etc. to see what the authors of Masonic ritual looked to for their inspiration.

I think that’s the crux of the matter for me - if you recognize the Masonic ritual as a baroque play for a fraternity, then one can be a Mason and a Christian.

If however, once you think that the Masonic ritual is anything more serious then that, you would have to cut it out immediately.

 

[KyivAndrew]

I think that’s the crux of the matter for me - if you recognize the Masonic ritual as a baroque play for a fraternity, then one can be a Mason and a Christian.

If however, once you think that the Masonic ritual is anything more serious then that, you would have to cut it out immediately.

Thanks for the answer ben! I think the fact that you use a Holy Bible in the Masonic Temple for the initiation oaths and the rituals shows it’s more than a “baroque play” as you say. You don’t need to invoke God’s name and Swear on the Bible for baroque plays!

And whoever heard of someone who belonged to a fraternity putting the symbols of that fraternity, the square and compass in our case, on his gravestone in the place of a cross, even if he be a Christian. The square and compass replaces the cross on gravestones, even for Masons’ wives I believe, should the Mason choose to have a Masonic Funeral and Benediction at his funeral. Most fraternities don’t have specific prayers and benedictions at death which replace (or “complement”) Christian burial, except the Masonic “fraternity”. I’ve never seen a Masonic square and compass beside a Cross on any Mason’s gravestone or tomb. It’s as if the two symbols are mutually exclusive, even for the life beyond. The square and compass stands alone.

Looking historically at some of the guys responsible for authoring the rituals used in Masonic lodges, from Ashmole, to Anderson, to Pike, you realize these guys were authoring more than simple plays, but took the ritual absolutely seriously as a moral lodestar. And I mean that irrespective of what an individual Mason may feel (i.e. aw, everyone has had to be blindfolded and half-stripped for this Masonic initiation for hundreds of years and this is just for fraternal fun), because that’s not what the authors of the Masonic ritual, Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, or York rite had in mind. Just go to youtube and look at what one of the biggest names in 20th Century Scottish Rite Freemasonry in the US, Henry Clausen, had to say about Masonic ritual and you realize how seriously it’s taken, or supposed to be taken. Clausen’s Commentaries would show any thinking Scottish Rite mason that one should take the “occult sciences” and the world’s pagan mystery religions absolutely seriously as moral lodestars.

To pretend that it’s just a play does a disservice to the Bible, God, and probably one’s own intelligence if one cares to think about it, imho.

 

[traveler357]

traveler, thanks for joining the discussion. As a former Mason, would you like to give us some of these reasonable and intelligent arguments as to why a serious Christian should not be a Mason.

PART ONE

Sure, here is a restatement of some arguments I consider reasonable and factual, which I made in the “Is Freemasonry a Sin?” thread:

1. Freemasonry is a religion (despite the fact that most Masons regard it merely as a fraternity). It is not Christian, therefore it is inappropriate for a Christian to participate in it.
2. The Church teaches that it is sinful for a Catholic to be a Mason. (This should be a good argument for Catholics, but not necessarily compelling for other Christians.)
3. The candidate for each of the three degrees takes a solemn obligation on the Holy Bible “in the presence of Almighty God” by repeating the words supplied by the Worshipful Master, without having advance opportunity to know what he is swearing to. While the candidate may refuse at any time to continue, one may perceive an element of psychological coercion in the situation, since the candidate is kneeling at the altar, partially clothed and blindfolded.
4. Some of the promises may be viewed as ethically questionable, or even lead the Mason to illegal acts if he were to scrupulously keep his promises. (In the real world, the Mason would not be likely to take such promises “literally,” thereby avoiding potentially unethical or illegal actions.)
5. The Masonic secrets may be considered mere trifles, since they have long been exposed in print, and can be discovered on the internet or on the History Channel. In many Masonic jurisdictions (although not in mine) the candidate assents to the justness of certain very bloody (albeit hypothetical) consequences being visited upon himself, should he violate his obligation. Swearing on the Holy Bible, “in the presence of Almighty God,” to keep these so-called “secrets,” especially if reference is made to extreme penalties, effectively makes a mockery of the concept of making a solemn oath. A Christian may well view this as blasphemy, taking the Lord’s name in vain.

 

[traveler357]

PART TWO

The participants in this forum seem to be pretty well informed regarding the Church’s position on Masonry, but many Catholics, including some priests and bishops, do not seem to understand it (and some may not want to understand it).

So I would suggest that Catholics calmly explain to Catholic Masons that yes, there has been a lot of confusion and misunderstanding that resulted from the change in the applicable canon law, which deleted specific reference to Freemasonry (or to any other particular group) but simply referred to organizations that work against the Church. Since there is no reason to suppose that Masonry-- in the English-speaking world-- is working against the Church, it was widely supposed among Masons, as well as Catholics, that it was then OK for Catholics to be Masons. (I know Catholic Masons who asked their pastors if was OK to join the lodge and they were told “yes.”) However, then-Cardinal Ratzinger issued an authoritative letter on behalf of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the express approval of Pope John Paul II, stating the Church’s position on Masonry had not changed, despite the changed wording of the canon law, and therefore a Catholic who is a Freemason is in a state of grave sin and should not receive communion.

I suggest that this information be imparted in a gentle, considerate manner, without going into a judgmental or accusatory mode, for such is likely to be highly counter-productive. Remember that the typical Mason has no reason to think that he is involved in anything other than a benign fraternity that is working for the uplift of humanity in harmony with the divine will. He has a huge emotional investment in his lodge and in his relationships with his Masonic brothers. Try to appreciate how difficult it will be for him to consider withdrawal from Masonry when he doesn’t see that there is anything wrong with Masonry. It will probably take him quite a bit of time to fully grasp the implications of the true Church teaching on the subject.

As much as we might want to think that a Catholic will naturally wish to conform to the authority of the Church, its pretty obvious that a large proportion of Catholics pick and choose which teachings they will actually live by. So the argument that “the Church says so” is not going to be adequate for many Catholic Masons. Other arguments will be needed.

 

[traveler357]

PART THREE

From my perspective, perhaps the most problematic aspect of Masonry relates to the oaths taken by the candidate, especially the manner in which they are administered, as I mentioned above. This is a matter that is fairly easily understood,* if* he will actually reflect upon it, since the active Mason is so familiar with the procedure, having witnessed it on many occasions. But this is a big “if.”

Relatively few Masons really take the ritual seriously-- they don’t tend to reflect upon it. It’s just something they do because this is the way its always been done! It’s just a bit of rigamarole to go through, just a little bit of harmless inculturation, a dignified alternative to hazing to promote male bonding-- a prelude to the more important work of planning and carrying out social and charitable activities.

But if, as I say, the Mason will actually reflect upon the oath business, he may begin to be slightly unsettled by fact that the candidate has no idea what is contained in the oath until he is actually in the process of making the oath. After having been led around the lodge room blindfolded (“hoodwinked”) and partially clad, he kneels at the altar after having been assured that there is nothing in the “obligation” that will conflict with the duty he owes to God, his country, family, neighbor or himself. For his initiation into Masonry, in the Entered Apprentice (first) degree, his legs are placed in a certain position that many find to be slightly uncomfortable (and some may find to be rather uncomfortable). His hands are placed on and under the Holy Bible, square and compasses.

The Worshipful Master then proceeds to lead him through his obligation by feeding him a few words at a time, which the candidate then repeats back. The candidate is likely to be in a bit of a daze at this point, what with all the strange things that are happening to him in rapid succession. He struggles to simply repeat the words correctly. There is little likelihood that he fully comprehends what he is saying at the time he is saying it. But when all is said and done, perhaps weeks or months later, after he has witnessed others going through the same procedure, or having had opportunity to read the ritual, he discovers that he has said things like “of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him and dedicated to the Holy Saints John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear…” (There follows a great deal of verbiage which can be boiled down to: I will not divulge the secrets of Masonry.)

The obligation concludes “So help me God and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.” In many Masonic jurisdictions (which, in America, correspond to the States) the obligation includes wording whereby the candidate assents to the proposition that he would be worthy of having his throat cut across, his tongue torn out by its roots and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should he ever knowingly violate his obligation. In some jurisdictions, the bloody penalties have been removed from the obligation proper, replaced by consent to be degraded and suspended or expelled from Masonry. In such a case, the newly initiated brother is nonetheless informed of the gruesome “ancient and symbolic penalty” after he has taken his obligation.

If he reflects upon this procedure, the thoughtful Mason may begin to ask himself questions such as: Is it even possible for a man to freely give his consent under such circumstances? Is it morally acceptable to subject a man to psychological and physical stresses (mild as they may be) and have him make a solemn obligation, invoking God, when he probably doesn’t actually understand what he is saying? Shouldn’t it be considered blasphemous to invoke God in making a solemn promise to keep certain “secrets” inviolate, which, in fact, are public knowledge?

Well, I suppose I will have to write a book on this, but not tonight. I will leave it here for now

 

[KyivAndrew]

Freemasonry is a religion (despite the fact that most Masons regard it merely as a fraternity). It is not Christian, therefore it is inappropriate for a Christian to participate in it.

The candidate for each of the three degrees takes a solemn obligation on the Holy Bible “in the presence of Almighty God” by repeating the words supplied by the Worshipful Master, without having advance opportunity to know what he is swearing to. While the candidate may refuse at any time to continue, one may perceive an element of psychological coercion in the situation, since the candidate is kneeling at the altar, partially clothed and blindfolded.

If he reflects upon this procedure, the thoughtful Mason may begin to ask himself questions such as: Is it even possible for a man to freely give his consent under such circumstances? Is it morally acceptable to subject a man to psychological and physical stresses (mild as they may be) and have him make a solemn obligation, invoking God, when he probably doesn’t actually understand what he is saying? Shouldn’t it be considered blasphemous to invoke God in making a solemn promise to keep certain “secrets” inviolate, which, in fact, are public knowledge?

Well, I suppose I will have to write a book on this, but not tonight. I will leave it here for now

traveler357, Thank you very much for your detailed posts and the thought you put into them! I think it helps a lot that these salient points are made and explained by a former Mason such as yourself who has “reflected” on the procedure he underwent and sees the conflict between Masonic rituals and oaths and Christianity/Catholicism.

 

[benjohnson]

PART ONE

Sure, here is a restatement of some arguments I consider reasonable and factual, which I made in the “Is Freemasonry a Sin?” thread:

If I may, as a Mason, Traveler357 have very truthfully explained with reasoning, logic, and Catholic church teaching why Catholic (and Christina) should not be Masons.

Nothing written here is anything but the truth, and if any Catholic who wishes to be effective in convincing other Catholics to not be Masons should commit his facts and ideas to memory.

Frankly, this should be a required reading before for anybody considering Masonry, or anybody considering condemning Masonry.

While I disagree with the conclusion, I can’t disagree with any of Traveler357’s facts, nor on his conclusion for himself.

 

[gamewell45]

So, after reading some absurd claim about Masonry for the umpteenth time, we should not be too surprised if a Mason makes a testy reply.

…or ignores the poster altogether!

 

[brianhoyland]

Speaking as a Mason - there’s several things that could very well make it incompatible.

Masons take historic oaths that have rather dire consequences for telling anybody the ‘secrets’ of Freemasonry - in modern times, nobody takes them seriously, but they are quite horrid sounding.

We requite members to have a belief in a monotheistic god so that the vows we take to be better men have some sort of consequence. Because we don’t specify Christ, we could be guilty of the heresy of thinking that all “gods” are equivalent. We have Mormon, protestant, Catholic, Muslim members.

Masonry can look like a religion - we have rituals, hats, symbols so it’s easy to see why this is the case.

Masonry started when the Knights Templar were disbanded by one of the Avignon Popes - so there’s a bit of history there. It’s a rather bloody history.

I’ll also add that Masonry as practiced in the European continent can be very very anti Catholic and anti religion - it’s basically, depending on where you are, a cult of crazies or a secret benefit society, or a weird combination of both.

Even though we have several Catholic members in our Masonic Lodge, unless you have some overriding need to be a Mason, I highly recommend that you join the very Catholic Knights of Columbus if you have a need for silly hats, charity, ritual, brotherhood, and the sort of thing that Masons provide.

You can then rest easy at night.

(PS. The Pope isn’t a Mason. If someone tells you that, then ignore them, in my opinion they’re confused.)

We should not swear by Gods name or anything in Heaven or… well you get the picture, but when we say the Pledge of allegiance, or when I took my oath to defend our country or when we are about to take the stand in a court of law we do just that, so it is hypocritical to point out such trivial matters as a blood oath that is not intended to be a serious action just one to remind the person that they did give their word. How about this one “I cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye” or however it goes, but the point is; are kids damned for doing that?

 

[brianhoyland]

PART ONE

Sure, here is a restatement of some arguments I consider reasonable and factual, which I made in the “Is Freemasonry a Sin?” thread:

1. Freemasonry is a religion (despite the fact that most Masons regard it merely as a fraternity). It is not Christian, therefore it is inappropriate for a Christian to participate in it.
2. The Church teaches that it is sinful for a Catholic to be a Mason. (This should be a good argument for Catholics, but not necessarily compelling for other Christians.)
3. The candidate for each of the three degrees takes a solemn obligation on the Holy Bible “in the presence of Almighty God” by repeating the words supplied by the Worshipful Master, without having advance opportunity to know what he is swearing to. While the candidate may refuse at any time to continue, one may perceive an element of psychological coercion in the situation, since the candidate is kneeling at the altar, partially clothed and blindfolded.
4. Some of the promises may be viewed as ethically questionable, or even lead the Mason to illegal acts if he were to scrupulously keep his promises. (In the real world, the Mason would not be likely to take such promises “literally,” thereby avoiding potentially unethical or illegal actions.)
5. The Masonic secrets may be considered mere trifles, since they have long been exposed in print, and can be discovered on the internet or on the History Channel. In many Masonic jurisdictions (although not in mine) the candidate assents to the justness of certain very bloody (albeit hypothetical) consequences being visited upon himself, should he violate his obligation. Swearing on the Holy Bible, “in the presence of Almighty God,” to keep these so-called “secrets,” especially if reference is made to extreme penalties, effectively makes a mockery of the concept of making a solemn oath. A Christian may well view this as blasphemy, taking the Lord’s name in vain.

The york right which is an appendant body of masonry is Christian and requires a mason to be Christian, but I have never heard or read anything about masonry being a religion, just as KofC is not a religion, but only requires one to be Catholic, masonry only requires a belief in God. They also do not allow talking about religion in a lodge, because it is not a religion and religious matters are to be left to the care of one’s faith and religious order.

 

[ffg]

The york right which is an appendant body of masonry is Christian and requires a mason to be Christian, but I have never heard or read anything about masonry being a religion, just as KofC is not a religion, but only requires one to be Catholic, masonry only requires a belief in God. They also do not allow talking about religion in a lodge, because it is not a religion and religious matters are to be left to the care of one’s faith and religious order.

I’ll try and hunt back in the thread, but I linked to a guy writing a letter to his crew about why he was leaving the masons, and a big reason was the religious aspect. He was a higher up, too.

Where do you typically find altars?

I think the key though is this gentleman, traveler, acknowledged the Catholic Church’s rule and chose Church over Lodge.

There should be no confusion over the rule.

Are we molding ourselves to His plan, or fitting Him into ours?

This would be following His rules, not hoping He is ok with our opinions.

Found it, post 121 in this thread, recopied here -

This might be the most interesting one...

Harmon R. Taylor GRAND LODGE FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK GRAND CHAPLAIN 1983-1984 

Second paragraph - "Many have asked me if Freemasonry is a religion. I have always responded "No". Others have told me that it is a religion. Study has revealed the fact that **learned writers in the fraternity** say MASONRY IS A RELIGION."


[cuttingedge.org/free004.html](http://www.cuttingedge.org/free004.html)

Letter to his Lodge's explaining his reasons to leave.

Interesting stuff.

 

[KyivAndrew]

The york right which is an appendant body of masonry is Christian and requires a mason to be Christian.

Well, no. The York Rite is not Christian. Just one of its bodies claims to be - the Knights Templar Commandery which comes only after completing Blue Lodge (first three degrees) and after completing the Royal Arch Chapter degrees in York Rite which are not Christian. In York Rite, each degree is not given in weekend marathons of multiple degrees as in Scottish Rite. The Knights Templar Commandery is but one appendant body to Blue Lodge Freemasonry and the only one claiming to be Christian.

In any event, before one becomes a Knight Templar in Freemasonry, one has to complete all the degrees in their Holy Royal Arch chapter which includes the Mason who is exalted into the Holy Royal Arch having to learn and be lectured on the secret Grand Omnific Name for God - Jahbulon. A Royal Arch Mason is taught that this is God’s real name and that God’s real name was hidden from him in the first three Masonic degrees (in the first three degrees one is given a substitute name and taught the word has been lost). Actually, some Masonic authorities say Blue Lodge is simply the outer portico for the Lesser Masonic Mysteries, and the Greater Mysteries come in the sanctorum of the Higher York and Scottish Rite degrees.

In the Royal Arch ceremony the candidate is told he cannot pronounce this secret name Jahbulon ever on his own, on pain of decapitation. As far as I know, most Royal Arch masons keep to this promise religiously. It is only pronounced when three Royal Arch masons gather and pronounce each syllable individually while they smack their hands, ie. Jah - Bul - On at the Royal Arch altar. So if one claims religion is not allowed in the Lodge, how does one then countenance Mystical Lectures on God’s secret name. Of course this is religious.

The Royal Arch Mason is told the Freemason’s name for God is an amalgam of three deities or that each syllable in God’s name represents how the three original master masons, Solomon, Hiram, Hiram Abiff would have called God.

So before one can become a Masonic Knight Templar, one has to complete Holy Royal Arch where one is taught that God’s Omnific Name is Jahbulon, not Jesus Christ.

And Jahbulon, on many readings, is a combination of the Hebrew “Jah” with Baal/Bul, the pagan deity Elijah fought in the Old Testament, and “On” - the place where ancient Egyptians worshiped the Sun God Ra and later Osiris. Although we think of Baal as being a name for a pagan deity or the devil himself, in the 19th century the authors of the Royal Arch degrees attempted to combine him with Jahweh and Osiris, hence the name Jahbulon. In Macoy’s Masonic Encyclopedia, written around the time the Holy Royal Arch Ceremony was framed, Baal gets a positive definition. If you think this is Christian, well that’s hogwash.

So yes, in the Knights Templar body, the Mason is told this body is Christian, but before he reaches it he goes through Royal Arch and at the Royal Arch altar is taught a Secret Grand Omnific Name for God which has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. How many fraternities lecture their candidates The Secret Name for God lost to time, and give this lecture at a Royal Arch altar?

If you start giving lectures and ceremonies at altars where you learn the Name of God which is not to be revealed to the profane, you are a religion. And this is York Rite.

 

[JHow]

Wow. What a lot of work. And a lot of “secret” information. The only secret the Knights of Columbus have is what they put in the pancakes.

 

[InJesusItrust]

Concerning conspiracies, I think that is possible. Our lady said that the current secularization of the world is due to Freemasonry influence on education.

How is it possible that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing? Compartmentalized roles. I don’t think that Einstein knew that he would contribute to the atomic bomb.

 

[JHow]

Concerning conspiracies, I think that is possible. Our lady said that the current secularization of the world is due to Freemasonry influence on education.

How is it possible that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing? Compartmentalized roles. I don’t think that Einstein knew that he would contribute to the atomic bomb.

Einstein wrote a letter to Roosevelt about the bomb encouraging him to create one.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Concerning conspiracies, I think that is possible. Our lady said that the current secularization of the world is due to Freemasonry influence on education.

I share the poster traveler’s idea on arguing Freemasonry. There is no conspiracy, but just concentrate on the ritual and oaths. In any event, Freemasonry is too weak and desperate for members to be some kind of massive conspiracy.

To see just how Freemasonry is divided, one only has to look at how difficult it is for lodges in the Deep South to even recognize the Prince Hall lodges to which African Americans belong. Much arguing about this, and about the fact that the Shriners don’t require anymore for the Freemason to complete the higher degrees before becoming a Shriner. Many freemasons went through the Scottish rite degrees simply to become a Shriner. Now that requirement is ostensibley gone, so the Scottish rite is trying to keep candidates.

As for parochial schools, my understanding is yes - the Scottish rite campaigns against them.

But to start arguing conspiracies doesn’t comport with reality. The Grand Lodge of England has enough problems dealing with Continental Freemasonry, such as France’s Grand Orient, to make suggestions of some world-wide plan untrue. Dominique Strauss-Kahn is big in France’s Grand Orient. Didn’t stop him from being arrested in New York City.

Again, just concentrate on the rituals and oaths and what they may do to one’s belief in Christ. This is more than enough.

 

[InJesusItrust]

Wow.

But think of the military as a second example.

 

[benjohnson]

Jahbulon

Strange world we live in: apparently this is where the Rastafarians got their name “Jah” for their God Haile Selassie I. Apparently, it wasn’t from the KJV Bible, but though a sort of copy of Royal Arch Masons.

Jahbulon is no longer part of the Royal Arch Masonry, at least here in Washington. Thankfully. It’s even a bit too weird for me.

If all this wackiness sounds like a great way to start a religion, apparently you have two choices - the Rastafarians and the LDS.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Strange world we live in: apparently this is where the Rastafarians got their name “Jah” for their God Haile Selassie I. Apparently, it wasn’t from the KJV Bible, but though a sort of copy of Royal Arch Masons.

Jahbulon is no longer part of the Royal Arch Masonry, at least here in Washington. Thankfully. It’s even a bit too weird for me.

If all this wackiness sounds like a great way to start a religion, apparently you have two choices - the Rastafarians and the LDS.

Yeah, “Jah” comes from “Jahweh” or “Yahweh” in the Old Testament. I know in England the Holy Royal Arch is considered the Supreme and Sublime Degree and Jahbulon was changed after two books by Short and Knight revealed its provenance. The change only happened because non-Masons learned of the word and started asking Masons how could they possibly accept such a name for God. In other words, the change was done by coercion not because Grand Lodge thought it wrong to call God Jahbulon.

I guess some Royal Arch Chapters elsewhere have followed suit but it’s funny that Royal Arch Masons may simply refer to Jahbulon as the “tri-syllable” word and not utter it.

Ben, let me ask you: is there a major problem with racism in the Grand Lodges of the states in the Deep South or in the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite? I mean look at this story from the New York Times:
*Black Member Tests Message of Masons in Georgia Lodges *
nytimes.com/2009/07/03/us/03masons.html?_r=1&

It sort of puts this whole idea of uniting people of different backgrounds in Freemasonry to be quite a flimsy argument to make, even though of course on this thread at least I am pointing out religious objections.

 

[benjohnson]

Ben, let me ask you: is there a major problem with racism in the Grand Lodges of the states in the Deep South or in the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite? I mean look at this story from the New York Times:
*Black Member Tests Message of Masons in Georgia Lodges *
nytimes.com/2009/07/03/us/03masons.html?_r=1&

There are issues in small locations, and if I had to guess, racial problems in Southern US Masonry probably don’t stem from Masonry itself.

I know Prince Hall Masons are very welcome in my lodge, and frankly, if there’s any credence to the idea that Masonry can help build better men, then you would find it in the Prince Hall Masons. They have their act together, and are amazing people.