The Masons

[brianhoyland]

Well, no. The York Rite is not Christian. Just one of its bodies claims to be - the Knights Templar Commandery which comes only after completing Blue Lodge (first three degrees) and after completing the Royal Arch Chapter degrees in York Rite which are not Christian. In York Rite, each degree is not given in weekend marathons of multiple degrees as in Scottish Rite. The Knights Templar Commandery is but one appendant body to Blue Lodge Freemasonry and the only one claiming to be Christian.

In any event, before one becomes a Knight Templar in Freemasonry, one has to complete all the degrees in their Holy Royal Arch chapter which includes the Mason who is exalted into the Holy Royal Arch having to learn and be lectured on the secret Grand Omnific Name for God - Jahbulon. A Royal Arch Mason is taught that this is God’s real name and that God’s real name was hidden from him in the first three Masonic degrees (in the first three degrees one is given a substitute name and taught the word has been lost). Actually, some Masonic authorities say Blue Lodge is simply the outer portico for the Lesser Masonic Mysteries, and the Greater Mysteries come in the sanctorum of the Higher York and Scottish Rite degrees.

In the Royal Arch ceremony the candidate is told he cannot pronounce this secret name Jahbulon ever on his own, on pain of decapitation. As far as I know, most Royal Arch masons keep to this promise religiously. It is only pronounced when three Royal Arch masons gather and pronounce each syllable individually while they smack their hands, ie. Jah - Bul - On at the Royal Arch altar. So if one claims religion is not allowed in the Lodge, how does one then countenance Mystical Lectures on God’s secret name. Of course this is religious.

The Royal Arch Mason is told the Freemason’s name for God is an amalgam of three deities or that each syllable in God’s name represents how the three original master masons, Solomon, Hiram, Hiram Abiff would have called God.

So before one can become a Masonic Knight Templar, one has to complete Holy Royal Arch where one is taught that God’s Omnific Name is Jahbulon, not Jesus Christ.

And Jahbulon, on many readings, is a combination of the Hebrew “Jah” with Baal/Bul, the pagan deity Elijah fought in the Old Testament, and “On” - the place where ancient Egyptians worshiped the Sun God Ra and later Osiris. Although we think of Baal as being a name for a pagan deity or the devil himself, in the 19th century the authors of the Royal Arch degrees attempted to combine him with Jahweh and Osiris, hence the name Jahbulon. In Macoy’s Masonic Encyclopedia, written around the time the Holy Royal Arch Ceremony was framed, Baal gets a positive definition. If you think this is Christian, well that’s hogwash.

So yes, in the Knights Templar body, the Mason is told this body is Christian, but before he reaches it he goes through Royal Arch and at the Royal Arch altar is taught a Secret Grand Omnific Name for God which has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. How many fraternities lecture their candidates The Secret Name for God lost to time, and give this lecture at a Royal Arch altar?

If you start giving lectures and ceremonies at altars where you learn the Name of God which is not to be revealed to the profane, you are a religion. And this is York Rite.

It is interesting that you brought up the knights templar, as I have read many historical documents that claim the Church has persecuted them with the help and at the request of king phillip of france not for religious violations as they had full authority of the pope up until phillip got greedy and convinced the current pope to condem them. I am wondering if perhaps they also had secret information found in the holy land that was considered to be damaging to the current beliefs and understanding of the times that was considered threatening. I also understand that the leader of the knights templar condemed the king and the pope and stated that in God’s name they would both be dead by the end of the year for their sinfullness and transgressions. Do you have any information about this?

 

[traveler357]

The york right which is an appendant body of masonry is Christian and requires a mason to be Christian, but I have never heard or read anything about masonry being a religion, just as KofC is not a religion, but only requires one to be Catholic, masonry only requires a belief in God. They also do not allow talking about religion in a lodge, because it is not a religion and religious matters are to be left to the care of one’s faith and religious order.

I was a member of the Chapter (Royal Arch Masons) and Council (Royal and Select Masters) in the York Rite, and there was no Christian requirement. In the Commandery (Knights Templar) of the York Rite, I’m told that the candidate promises to defend the Christian faith, but does not neccessarily have to be Christian. This would be problematic for most non-Christians, but not for all, because I know of some who have done it.

You’re certainly correct, in that the great majority of Masons do not consider Masonry a religion. You will hear the phrase, “Masonry is not a religion, but it is religious.” I suppose one could observe a certain type of bird swimming on the pond, and say “it’s not a duck, but it is duckish.”

I think that Masons who take the ritual, history and philosophy seriously, are a lot more comfortable with the religious dimension. Among them, you may hear “Freemasonry is not A religion, it IS religion.”

Prohibition of political or religious discussions in lodge clearly helps to preserve harmony among the brethren, a laudable intention. Of course, one way of looking at it would be that “discussions of politics, or religion-- other than Masonry-- are prohibited.” This is what you would expect in any church, synagogue or mosque. In a Catholic church, at appropriate times (not during the mass itself, but at other types of gatherings), one would be free, and indeed be expected to discuss the Christian faith, and especially the Catholic Church’s understanding of the faith. But one would not expect it to be well received if one were to extoll the merits of different, non-Christian, religions.

 

[KyivAndrew]

It is interesting that you brought up the knights templar, as I have read many historical documents that claim the Church has persecuted them with the help and at the request of king phillip of france not for religious violations as they had full authority of the pope up until phillip got greedy and convinced the current pope to condem them. I am wondering if perhaps they also had secret information found in the holy land that was considered to be damaging to the current beliefs and understanding of the times that was considered threatening. I also understand that the leader of the knights templar condemed the king and the pope and stated that in God’s name they would both be dead by the end of the year for their sinfullness and transgressions. Do you have any information about this?

Hi, actually, out for time right now but please look at my post #88 on this thread where I deal with the Masonic Knights Templar claim and how bogus it it is. Piers Paul Read wrote a good book on the Templars showing how it was simply the King of France’s greed for the Templar treasure that had them disbanded, not any secret esoteric knowledge. The Masons added the Templar lineage claim later to try to make themselves look a more ancient brotherhood.

 

[brianhoyland]

I was a member of the Chapter (Royal Arch Masons) and Council (Royal and Select Masters) in the York Rite, and there was no Christian requirement. In the Commandery (Knights Templar) of the York Rite, I’m told that the candidate promises to defend the Christian faith, but does not neccessarily have to be Christian. This would be problematic for most non-Christians, but not for all, because I know of some who have done it.

You’re certainly correct, in that the great majority of Masons do not consider Masonry a religion. You will hear the phrase, “Masonry is not a religion, but it is religious.” I suppose one could observe a certain type of bird swimming on the pond, and say “it’s not a duck, but it is duckish.”

I think that Masons who take the ritual, history and philosophy seriously, are a lot more comfortable with the religious dimension. Among them, you may hear “Freemasonry is not A religion, it IS religion.”

Prohibition of political or religious discussions in lodge clearly helps to preserve harmony among the brethren, a laudable intention. Of course, one way of looking at it would be that “discussions of politics, or religion-- other than Masonry-- are prohibited.” This is what you would expect in any church, synagogue or mosque. In a Catholic church, at appropriate times (not during the mass itself, but at other types of gatherings), one would be free, and indeed be expected to discuss the Christian faith, and especially the Catholic Church’s understanding of the faith. But one would not expect it to be well received if one were to extoll the merits of different, non-Christian, religions.

Thank you for your perceptions and insight. You make some very logical and interesting arguements that get me thinking. I am wanting to ask you even more questions about your experience, but I fear I may never get to see the answers nor do I want to offend you. So if you would prefer I would ask you in a private message or in public whichever you are most comfortable with.

 

[brianhoyland]

Hi, actually, out for time right now but please look at my post #88 on this thread where I deal with the Masonic Knights Templar claim and how bogus it it is. Piers Paul Read wrote a good book on the Templars showing how it was simply the King of France’s greed for the Templar treasure that had them disbanded, not any secret esoteric knowledge. The Masons added the Templar lineage claim later to try to make themselves look a more ancient brotherhood.

Thank you I will look that up.

 

[brianhoyland]

That’s actually a Masonic myth about the Templars, right up there with other Masonic myths arguing for the beginnings of Masonry in ancient Egypt. Simply not true and not upheld by any serious historian.

Yes, you will find books proposing a Templar/Masonic continuation by fabulist authors like the guys who wrote “Holy Blood, Holy Grail” and along those lines. I know the whole routine, Rosslyn Chapel, etc. But the people who make these claims are either Masons trying to make a more ancient starting point for themselves or “experts” who want to sell a couple of books along these lines or Masonic authors prone to declaring Freemasonry and its secret knowledge existed from time immemorial.

Well here is a quote from a real Cambridge instructed writer Piers Paul Read whose The Templars is second to none and not like those Holy Blood Holy Grail nonsense books.
amazon.com/Templars-Dramatic-Powerful-Military-Crusades/dp/0312555385

He writes for the English Conservative Magazine The Spectator as well.

Responding to the lack of historical respectability to fairytale type stories of Masonic links with the Templars, Read writes:

In contrast to the real story behind the Templars: ".*.with the advent of the Enlightenment in the seventeenth century there emerged a third view of the Templars as neither orthodox nor heretical Christians but rather as the high priests of an ancient and occult religion which predated Christ. It might be thought that an intellectual movement that prided itself on supplanting superstition with common sense would blow away the cobwebs of obfuscation that surrounded the Templars, but the Enlightenment was far from being the simple exercise of the rational faculties. (Rather than demystifying)…some eighteenth-century men found Templars, and turned them into a wild fantasy which for mistagogy and obfuscation equaled anything the old Catholic historiography could offer. So successful was the enterprise that to this day it is impossible to approach the Templars without encountering the remnants, of even the full and gaudy robes, of eighteenth-century prejudice.

"The chief agents of this “Templarism”, the metamorphosis of the Templars from history into myth were the Freemasons … whose hypothesis was quite as fanciful as Parzival.

“Speculation did not end with the eighteenth century: in fact it has never been more feverish than it is today*.”

Now that’s written by a modern legitimate scholar, but I’m surprised to find the Templar/Mason myth is still believed. But then again, not every initiate into Freemasonry is an expert on history, so when some Masonic adept in the York Templar rite makes this claim or an adept in the Scottish rite explains the beginnings of freemasonry in the Osiris cult in Egypt, in Mithraism, in the Mediterranean mystery religions, etc. etc., how is Joe the businessman on 3rd street going to realize this is all bunk and not just buy the ancient origins of Freemasonry theory hook line and sinker. How would he know any better. I mean you have all these Masonic esoteric writers like Wilmhurst, Ward, etc. who go looking for fantasies in history and can in no way claim to being historians.

This is just a case of a 17th century brotherhood looking for earlier origins to give its organization more prominence. It’s certainly not history. De Molay was not a Master Mason, neither were any of the other ancient figures Masonry has claimed to be masons. De Molay was executed because the French King wanted the Templars’ treasures, not because De Molay espoused some new religion. The French king resorted to claiming the Templars practiced witchcraft, etc. - a false charge - and then when Freemasonry comes along several centuries later, it attempts to argue the Templars were receivers of some occult secret knowledge and it was for this they were put down, as opposed to the fact they were disbanded simply because of a European King’s desire for their wealth.

This is very interesting and compelling enough to cause me to purchase it and read it. I also wonder if you know of where I can find historical catholic documents relating tothe reasons and evidence of the knights wrongdoing or if the church ever apologized for the actions taken against this previously papal authorized order?

 

[benjohnson]

It is interesting that you brought up the knights templar, as I have read many historical documents that claim the Church has persecuted them with the help and at the request of king phillip of france not for religious violations as they had full authority of the pope up until phillip got greedy and convinced the current pope to condem them. I am wondering if perhaps they also had secret information found in the holy land that was considered to be damaging to the current beliefs and understanding of the times that was considered threatening. I also understand that the leader of the knights templar condemed the king and the pope and stated that in God’s name they would both be dead by the end of the year for their sinfullness and transgressions. Do you have any information about this?

I’ve spent a lot of time in old Templar churches in Western France, and they are weird - They’re in the round, and the more intact ones they have an interesting motif for the Holy Trinity in their architecture that would not be welcome in modern churches - it’s single head with three faces. The accusations of weird theology may have had some truth.

The curse from the last Grand Master hasn’t been historically collaborated that I can find.

What is interesting for me is that there’s a lot of French words in Masonry that very well could have come from the Templars who used French as their lingua franca. (pun intended).

 

[KyivAndrew]

What is interesting for me is that there’s a lot of French words in Masonry that very well could have come from the Templars who used French as their lingua franca. (pun intended).

As to the last point on French words, well, a lot of this comes from the fact that the Ancient and Accepted Order of Scottish Rite Freemasonry is neither Ancient nor Scottish. Its provenance is in France. While the English were making do initially with three degrees in Freemasonry (to be later capped off by the Supreme Degree of the Holy Royal Arch), in Continental Europe in the 18th century, especially in France, the freemasons went crazy inventing all sorts of new degrees and names and fanciful knight designations, culminating in the 33 degrees which Scottish Rite Masonry now has in the USA. The Scottish Rite was transplanted to the USA with all these extra degrees and later took off with Pike in the 19th century to become the big body with extra degrees in US Masonry. (then there is the whole Antient vs. Modern Freemasonry conflict in the 18th century).

There has always been this craze in secret societies to add more levels and degrees and secret knowledge. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the Societas Rosicruciana, etc. etc. It just happens that the French extra degrees became part of the Scottish Rite which one finds in the US.

I’ve spent a lot of time in old Templar churches in Western France, and they are weird - They’re in the round, and the more intact ones they have an interesting motif for the Holy Trinity in their architecture that would not be welcome in modern churches - it’s single head with three faces. The accusations of weird theology may have had some truth.

Not really. The Churches of the Knights Templar as well as the Knights Hospitaller were built as symbols of their crusading mission: the main feature in their build was of course their “rotunda” design but this was copied from the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, the place of Christ’s resurrection.

As for the weird theology claim, the Templars were dissolved by the French King in an age of corruption and some superstition. King Philip who had the Templars destroyed and Grand Master Molay burnt at the stake in March 1314 also impaled his chamberlain (who had no connection with the Templars) on false sorcery charges to cover his avaricious financial policies. It was not just the Templars who were falsely accused of sorcery, but any enemy it seems of the French king at the time.

Pope Boniface VIII himself had been accosted by French royal agents in an attempt to arrest him in 1303 before he was rescued and taken to Rome. In 1306, a Norman lawyer argued that the lands of the papacy should be placed under the control of the French king and papal policy should be subordinated to French power. In 1309, Pope Clement V moved the papal court to France, to Avignon where it remained for 70 years and during which time all the popes were French. Five years after the pope is moved to France, the Knights Templar fall victim to the King of France’s greed for more wealth. If the Pope could not be immune from the French King’s political pressure, how could the Templars?

So all this talk of weird Templar theology is just cover for the insinuations the French King made against the Templars in order to gain their wealth. I know it’s not as intriguing as believing the Templars gained secret knowledge in the Holy Land, but it’s the truth and not fantasy.

In any event, in the lands where the French royal hand did not reach, like in Portugal for instance, the Knights Templar continued to exist without worry or persecution!

 

[benjohnson]

In any event, in the lands where the French royal hand did not reach, like in Portugal for instance, the Knights Templar continued to exist without worry or persecution!

Philippe le Bel certainly was ambitious. I find that period of history hard to fathom as there’s so many sources and so many stories pulled out of such shaky evidence.

I’d love to see the ritual reenactment in Portugal - there’s a group of historians who’ve claimed to have put it back together.

 

[brianhoyland]

Well, no. The York Rite is not Christian. Just one of its bodies claims to be - the Knights Templar Commandery which comes only after completing Blue Lodge (first three degrees) and after completing the Royal Arch Chapter degrees in York Rite which are not Christian. In York Rite, each degree is not given in weekend marathons of multiple degrees as in Scottish Rite. The Knights Templar Commandery is but one appendant body to Blue Lodge Freemasonry and the only one claiming to be Christian.

If you think this is Christian, well that’s hogwash.

So yes, in the Knights Templar body, the Mason is told this body is Christian, but before he reaches it he goes through Royal Arch and at the Royal Arch altar is taught a Secret Grand Omnific Name for God which has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. How many fraternities lecture their candidates The Secret Name for God lost to time, and give this lecture at a Royal Arch altar?

If you start giving lectures and ceremonies at altars where you learn the Name of God which is not to be revealed to the profane, you are a religion. And this is York Rite.

Hi Andrew I got this from a Knights Templar webpage and it says that they are to be Christian for full membership. Does this sound correct as far as you know?
Chivalric Masonry
Illustrious Order of the Red Cross
Order of Malta
Order of the Temple – Knights Templar

The Chivalric Orders

The Illustrious Order of the Red Cross

The first order conferred in the chivalric system is the Illustrious Order of the Red Cross and the story contained within predates the era of the crusades. The candidate represents Zerubbabel who is well familiar to the Royal Arch Mason ( a requirement for admission) at the time of King Darius. Zerubbabel visits the king in order to convince him of his commitment to the Jewish people and in the process is asked to take part in a debate over which has greatest sway in the kingdom – wine, women or the king. The end result of the debate being the candidate offering a fourth option and an excellent argument is made on the power of Truth.

The Order of Malta

This is the first of the Christian Orders contained in the Chivalric system and relates the story of St. Paul’s arrival on the island of Melita which we know today as Malta. In the next portion of the order the history of the Knights of St. John (Knights of Malta) is explained and the periods of the orders history is paralleled with the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. While Freemasonry often comes under attack by fundamentalists who view it as unchristian, the candidate for admission into this Christian order can offer clear argument to the contrary.

The Order of the Temple
The Order of the Temple of Knights Templar Order is the most beautiful in the series. The order is broken into three portions:

Novice
Installation
Consecration

These portions are sometimes conferred together but more often done on two or three separate occasions. During the ceremonies the candidate represents a knight of the era that succeeded the Crusades and vowed to visit the Holy Sepulcher. As a trial of his worthiness he must make a pilgrimage for seven years in the direction of the Holy Sepulcher. After having served six years of preparation he is commanded to devote the remaining year of preparation to penance. The ritual teaches beautiful lessons on the death and ascension of our Savior and the candidate is at last received into full fellowship, in the most solemn manner.

It is important to note that in Canada and the United States there are some differences to the Orders, but essentially they follow the above model.

A Potential Candidate for Masonic Templarism, must be a member of the Craft Lodge, and Royal Arch Chapter. In some jurisdictions it is required that the potential member must also be a member of the Cryptic Rite.

Unlike most branches of Freemasonry, wherein the Candidate need not follow a particular faith, the Chivalric Orders of Masonry require a belief in the doctrine of the Trinity. That is to say they must profess a faith in Christianity.

 

[KyivAndrew]

A Potential Candidate for Masonic Templarism, must be a member of the Craft Lodge, and Royal Arch Chapter. In some jurisdictions it is required that the potential member must also be a member of the Cryptic Rite.

Unlike most branches of Freemasonry, wherein the Candidate need not follow a particular faith, the Chivalric Orders of Masonry require a belief in the doctrine of the Trinity. That is to say they must profess a faith in Christianity.

Brian, I’ve heard of non-Christians joining the Masonic Knights Templar as well who promise to defend the Christian faith. In any event, the whole appendant body of the Knights Templar Commandery or Priory (depending on jurisdiction) illustrates well the mish-mash involved in Masonic “education”.

First off, before one can even become a Masonic Knight Templar, one must complete Blue Lodge (Craft Masonry) and its three degrees. These degrees are not built upon any Christian ethic or ritual, but as Masonic Monitors themselves write, on the old pagan mysteries of various cults which worshiped Osiris, or Mithtras, etc. Moreover, the Bible is used as a joke in these rituals as when the Masonic candidate swears to simply not fool around with a brother Mason’s wife, sister, mother, or daughter. The Bible, which forbids adultery, is used by the Masonic initiate to simply swear to leave brother Masons’ relations alone when it comes to sex or carnal relations. If you’re going to swear by the Bible, this is most unChristian.

In Craft Masonry, you then swear to keep a brother Mason’s secrets inviolable, murder and treason excepted. In the Holy Royal Arch of the York Rite (which comes after Blue Lodge and is required to be completed before Knight Templar) the exceptions for treason and murder are removed and you swear on the Bible to support your fellow Royal Arch Mason whether he be right or wrong. Again, most unChristian.

So even before you petition or get asked to join a Masonic Knight Templar commandery you have to go through all the anti-Christian ritual listed above, first in Blue Lodge, then in Royal Arch Masonry, and then (in some jurisdictions) the Cryptic rite possibly.

In Craft Masonry, you are taught the NAME for God (or master mason word) has been lost. If you proceed beyond Craft Masonry in the York Rite to Royal Arch you are given the WORD for God (which historically in many chapters has been the mongrel word Jahbulon which has nothing to do with Christ). The Knights Templar Priory then tells you you must have completed Royal Arch to qualify and now you will learn the Interpretation of the Word which involves for the first time some mention of Christianity.

The fact is Freemasonry had nothing to do with the Knights Templar until the Scotsman Andrew Ramsay made a connection up in the 1730s. There is no history to it, but it caught on because of the romance involved with chivalry.

The biggest question mark around whether a Royal Arch Mason will join the Order of the Templars is the cost for the uniform and the military drills, not questions of Christianity.

Indeed, in the Masonic Knights Templar initiation, the candidate is told to drink a cup of wine: “To the memory of Solomon, King of Israel, Hiram, King of Tyre and Hiram Abiff, the three Grand Masters who presided over the Grand Lodge.”
Again, Hiram Abiff is made up in Craft Masonry and his murder and raising in Blue Lodge is based upon gnostic mystery cults. So, ironically, even the non-Christian Hiram Abiff is to be venerated in the Knights Templar.

The bloody oaths are also present in the Knight Templar degree, i.e. when it is pronounced: “The skull also reminds us of the fate of one Simon of Syracuse, who was admitted into our illustrious Order, but violated his obligation by betraying his trust to the Infidels. They, although they profited by the treason, despised the traitor and caused his head to be struck off and sent to the Grand Master of the Knights Templar, who ordered it to be placed on the point of a pinnacle or spice, the skull to be laid open, and the brains exposed to the scorching rays of the sun, as a warning to all others.”

This bloody penalty of decapitation and sawing off of skull to expose the initiate’s brain to the scorching rays of the sun is mentioned in the Royal Arch ritual as well as a penalty.

Christianity really does ill-fit with the ritual in Freemasonry, even in the Knight Templar degree, which, again, can only be reached after the candidate undergoes the pseudo-pagan rituals of Blue Lodge and then the Royal Arch.

 

[brianhoyland]

Concerning conspiracies, I think that is possible. Our lady said that the current secularization of the world is due to Freemasonry influence on education.

How is it possible that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing? Compartmentalized roles. I don’t think that Einstein knew that he would contribute to the atomic bomb.

Hi would you please post a link to the source where I can find Our Holy Mother’s statement about marsonry. Thank you

 

[traveler357]

Here is a link to a very informative blog entry on the subject of Catholic Freemasons:

lily.org/blog/2005/10/freemasonry-and-catholic-church.html

There you can read the opinions of Catholic Freemasons (as well as non-Catholic Christians) who see no conflict between their faith and Masonic membership. It’s a matter that can be difficult to discern, for some, when you have priests who tell their parishioners that it’s OK to be a Mason, and on the other hand, you have an authoritative opinion issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith saying just the opposite.

I’m joining a (thankfully) orthodox RC parish, where the deacon who supervises the RCIA program told me my Masonry would be problematic in my joining the Church. Reading then-Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter led me to the inescapable conclusion that I must withdraw from Masonry.

 

[mangy_dog]

Speaking as a Mason - there’s several things that could very well make it incompatible.

Masons take historic oaths that have rather dire consequences for telling anybody the ‘secrets’ of Freemasonry - in modern times, nobody takes them seriously, but they are quite horrid sounding.

We requite members to have a belief in a monotheistic god so that the vows we take to be better men have some sort of consequence. Because we don’t specify Christ, we could be guilty of the heresy of thinking that all “gods” are equivalent. We have Mormon, protestant, Catholic, Muslim members.

Masonry can look like a religion - we have rituals, hats, symbols so it’s easy to see why this is the case.

Masonry started when the Knights Templar were disbanded by one of the Avignon Popes - so there’s a bit of history there. It’s a rather bloody history.

I’ll also add that Masonry as practiced in the European continent can be very very anti Catholic and anti religion - it’s basically, depending on where you are, a cult of crazies or a secret benefit society, or a weird combination of both.

Even though we have several Catholic members in our Masonic Lodge, unless you have some overriding need to be a Mason, I highly recommend that you join the very Catholic Knights of Columbus if you have a need for silly hats, charity, ritual, brotherhood, and the sort of thing that Masons provide.

You can then rest easy at night.

(PS. The Pope isn’t a Mason. If someone tells you that, then ignore them, in my opinion they’re confused.)

Thank you Ben,

Nothing like an intelligent insider to make things clear with impartiality.

May God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit bless you with grace to do the right thing.

 

[The_Blunt_Brig]

What about the Masons is in opposition to the Church?

They put the bible, Quaran, Hindu and other sacred texts as equals and put them all on their altar. As in they believe that the Muslim god that specifically is not Jesus and calls Jesus a prophet instead of God and Jesus, and other religion’s Gods are all in existence and equal. They take oaths over small unnecessary things which can be a big sin.

The first commandment forbids idolatry which is believing in a God besides Jesus.

One of the higher levels of masonry worships Satan.

 

[The_Templar]

They were founded to destroy and undermine the Church. They still are. Look no further than the Anti-Catholic persecution in Mexico during the 1920’s. Masonic. Satanic. Diabolic. A Catholic, cannot be a Mason. CANNOT.

Your response “Masonic. Satanic. Diabolic” is Uninformed. Bigoted. Ignorant.
I’ve conducted quite a lot of research on the Masonic/Catholic debate and nothing you stated has any basis of truth. I’m not defending the Masons but ignorance in any form is injustice.

 

[The_Templar]

Three names should suffice for you to research: Hellena Petrovna Blavatsky; Alice Ann Bailey and Albert Pike. Masonry-East and West owe their rise to these personages and their doctrine of demons.

The Red Dragon = Atheistic, Marxist Communism.

The beast like a lamb= Ecclesial Masonry

The Black Beast-agil like a leopard= Freemasonry.

Perro Sarnoso = uninformed conspiracy theorist nut-job?

 

[The_Templar]

You seem to know quite a bit about this stuff…you’re a Mason then I presume?

 

[The_Templar]

Canon law still applies and it still remains forbidden.

Canon 1374 from the Code of Canon Law state,“A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.”
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P53.HTM

Following the promulgation of the new Code, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a new declaration: (1) the new Canon 1374 has the same essential import as the old Canon 2335, and the fact that the “Masonic sect” is no longer explicitly named is irrelevant; (2) the Church’s negative judgment on Masonry remains unchanged, because the Masonic principles are irreconcilable with the Church’s teaching (“earum principia semper iconciliabilia habita sunt cum Ecclesiae doctrina”); (3) Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion and (4) no local ecclesiastical authority has competence to derogate from these judgments of the Sacred Congregation. 3
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.htm
*
*

Just curious, did Canon Law prohibit pedophilia too? I’m just asking because though I’m not defending Masons, it seems that violating sacred trust would be like waaaay worse than going to a meeting with a bunch of old guys who dress up like clowns to entertain kids with cancer…

 

[The_Templar]

Philippe le Bel certainly was ambitious. I find that period of history hard to fathom as there’s so many sources and so many stories pulled out of such shaky evidence.

I’d love to see the ritual reenactment in Portugal - there’s a group of historians who’ve claimed to have put it back together.

Ben, I’ve done a lot of research on the Masons and my grandfather was one too. Some of the information you claim to have seems a bit “off” whereby I think you’re representing yourself as something you’re not. If you’re really a Mason, what lodge do you belong to?