The Mass and Protestant Services very different

[AlegreFe]

The poster you are replying to is not Anglican. He is Eastern Orthodox, according to his profile.

I was not referring to the poster. As a matter of fact, from his post I gathered he was Catholic, whether Western or Eastern doesn’t matter. I was referring to his post.

I attended an High Anglican (Episcopal) Mass in center city Philadelphia and except for the English language the Mass is identical to the Tridentine Mass of ole latin days.

He said he attended an Anglican Episcopal Mass but they are not identical at all given that our Catholic Mass really does have Jesus substantially present and the Anglicans do not.

eta… when I say “you” in my post I don’t always necessarily mean it to be to the poster. I am speaking to anyone who reads my post and believes in the real presence but does not have it in their church. By my “you” I was not referring to the poster StMarkEofE.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

There is nothing or no one BETTER than Jesus Christ Himself Substantially Present in the Eucharist, NOTHING! So NO Protestant service is better than any Catholic Mass no matter how “bad” a Priest’s Homily can be.

Here’s a complement for the Catholics:
I do like the Catholic Mass’s style of worship. There is something truly there. One thing though, the choice of music doesn’t always fit the mood of the Mass.

 

[AlegreFe]

Here’s a complement for the Catholics:
I do like the Catholic Mass’s style of worship. There is something truly there. One thing though, the choice of music doesn’t always fit the mood of the Mass.

As I said, the Mass is not about the music. It is about Jesus.

I’m curious though, what do you mean by the “music?” Do you mean certain kinds of music at one particular Mass that you’ve attended? To what kind of music are you referring?

But again, I will stress… the Mass is NOT about the music, it is all about Jesus Christ.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

As I said, the Mass is not about the music. It is about Jesus.

I’m curious though, what do you mean by the “music?” Do you mean certain kinds of music at one particular Mass that you’ve attended? To what kind of music are you referring?

But again, I will stress… the Mass is NOT about the music, it is all about Jesus Christ.

I would definitely hope the Mass wasn’t about the music. Catholics would have TONS of issues if that were the case.
I’ve been to a handful of Catholic Masses (I have Catholic in-laws) and I notice that the Mass is more a somber event and the only time there was really any “rejoicing” was the Glory to God song at the beginning of the Mass. Granted, the opening and closing songs every now and then have some “pep” to them.
Why sing a song while bringing up the water, wine and bread though, along with the collection? It breaks from the somber mood of the Mass. Why do you sing at your communion time? That also I would think would be a time of reflection.
Granted, these seem minimal to you but I would think correcting these things would make the Mass seem more appropriate and more “together”.
Do I make any sense?

 

[AlegreFe]

I would definitely hope the Mass wasn’t about the music. Catholics would have TONS of issues if that were the case.
I’ve been to a handful of Catholic Masses (I have Catholic in-laws) and I notice that the Mass is more a somber event and the only time there was really any “rejoicing” was the Glory to God song at the beginning of the Mass. Granted, the opening and closing songs every now and then have some “pep” to them.
Why sing a song while bringing up the water, wine and bread though, along with the collection? It breaks from the somber mood of the Mass. Why do you sing at your communion time? That also I would think would be a time of reflection.
Granted, these seem minimal to you but I would think correcting these things would make the Mass seem more appropriate and more “together”.
Do I make any sense?

Yes you do make sense… a lot of sense. They are NOT minimal to me at all.

For example… singing songs at communion. A lot of times I want to sing along but how can I when I am talking to Jesus? That used to be frustrating to me at times. But good thing I don’t let it get to me anymore. Jesus will still be with me at the end of the Mass. So I do sing sometimes along with the choir or congregation. The communion songs are mainly about coming together, being united with one another or having one bread. The songs seem to always be about the Eucharist in one way or another. Holy Communion is not just about being united with Jesus, it is also about being united with other Christians in the Mass. So I sing along once I say a little prayer to Jesus.

I will kneel after Mass and talk with Him some more. While the rest of the people rush out to the parking lot or start talking out loud right there in the Church while others are praying (how rude, go talk out in the vestibule), I am there kneeling with my Jesus and talking to Him. That is my peaceful time with Him.

As far as singing while the gifts are being brought forward, I see nothing wrong that. But then again, I usually attend a very reverant Mass where they sing in Latin sometimes even at a Novus Ordo Mass. There is a layman or a nun that sings sometimes during these times that you mention and they stay with the mood, as you put it, of the Mass.

 

[stinkcat_14]

That may be so ,but we have Sunday School and Wednesday night Bible studies so on the whole we protestants at least Baptist hear and read a lot more Scripture in church than Catholics do.
Also we Baptist go to Church to praise and to worship God and our Lord Jesus Christ. We praise God with hynms and songs. We worship God with prayer and scripture reading and study. We also worship God by serving him where we are needed in the Church. We give back to God a portion of what he has given us and we give back to Him our whole life 100% so that He may use us in what ever way will glorfy Him. We are not about ourselfs but glorfying God. Lastly our worship is sincere and from our heart.

Proud to Be Baptist
allischalmers

When Catholics go to Mass, we read from the Old Testament, the Psalms, The Epistles and the Gospel. I have never been to a baptist service where they considered the totality of Scripture. And I used to be a baptist, so I have been to many baptist services. We worship and glorify God at Mass as well.

The one thing I never found at a Baptist service was a penetential rite. That is, as Catholics we begin Mass by acknowledging that we are sinners and asking God’s forgiveness. We never did that as Baptists. Personally, I don’t see how one could really worship God without considering first how much we need his mercy.

 

[AlegreFe]

That may be so ,but we have Sunday School and Wednesday night Bible studies so on the whole we protestants at least Baptist hear and read a lot more Scripture in church than Catholics do.

And you know this HOW?

We Catholics have Mass every single day and we go through the MAJORITY of Scripture, New Testament and Old Testament, in a two year span. If a Catholic just goes to Mass on Sundays they hear the majority of Scripture in a 3 year cycle. This would include readings from the Old Testament, readings from the Psalms, Epistles from the New Testament and of course the Gospels. We hear Sacred Scripture on the WHOLE. The Church has readings from a particular OT and then a Psalm that goes with that OT reading and then the Gospel reading that coincides with the other readings. On Sundays we have those 3 plus an extra reading from Paul’s letters or one of the other epistles or NT reading.

Do you really know how much of the Bible you are reading in church in a span of 2 years? Do you really cover the majority of Scripture? Old Testament readings plus Psalms, plus epistles or letters from the New Testament plus the Gospels?

Why don’t you check out this website? It gives the readings for everyday. Go there every day (same link) to know what the readings are for that particular day. Really all we need is that. We don’t need to read 10, 15 or 20 pages of Scripture in one day to “gain more points” in heaven, especially if those 10 pages are usually the same ones read over and over again because the pastor or minister favors those particular readings. What we need is a span of readings from the whole bible, old and new testaments, that all go together and then a homily from the Priest to speak what the Holy Spirit is telling him.

allischalmers:

Also we Baptist go to Church to praise and to worship God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

So do we. But what is the definition of “Worship” as we need to Worship God?

allischalmers:

We praise God with hynms and songs. We worship God with prayer and scripture reading and study. We also worship God by serving him where we are needed in the Church. We give back to God a portion of what he has given us and we give back to Him our whole life 100% so that He may use us in what ever way will glorfy Him. We are not about ourselfs but glorfying God. Lastly our worship is sincere and from our heart.

So do we, to all of the above.

You don’t think we praise and Worship God and you don’t think it comes from our hearts? When we go to Mass, whether it’s on Sunday or any day of the week, we are to offer up our lives to God by uniting our sufferings with those of Christ’s. We are to offer up our joys and sorrows too. We are supposed to “die” to ourselves and Live for God!

 

[Cat]

Jesus and His disciples sang a hymn after the Last Supper.

I love singing after Communion, depending on the song. To me, singing IS talking to Jesus. He who sings prays twice. Instead of just blowing off the hymn, use it as your prayer. Concentrate on the words. Even if you can’t sing, pray the hymn. That’s why most Christian hymns are written–to glorify God and help you draw near to Him and other believers.

No one is required to sing. You can simply kneel and talk to Jesus while others around you sing and play the instrument(s).

Also, remember that the early Christian martyrs SANG HYMNS as they marched together into the arenas to offer up their bodies to Jesus. Isn’t that what we’re doing at Communion, joining Jesus on the cross, offering our bodies as a living sacrifice (Romans 12: 1 and 2)?

I think that singing a hymn AFTER Communion can help many people stay focused on Jesus and His Presence within them. WIth no music, it’s easy to allow your mind to wander and you forget the miracle that just occurred. Silly human limitations.

I also think that singing a hymn gives the children something to focus on, especially those children who have not yet made their first Communion. They can join in the singing of the hymn and experience fellowship with everyone else!

And the reason we would sing a song about bread and wine during the offering is that the whole mass is about Jesus. Communion follows the Offering, so why not prepare yourself by singing a song about it?

Also, the people who select the hymns have reasons for selecting; I like to look at the Scripture readings and choose hymns for mass that reflect the readings. Sometimes it’s obvious to me, but it may not be obvious to people in the congregation. Perhaps the bread and wine hymn was chosen because one of the verses connected with the Scripture reading or Father’s homily, but maybe they ran out of time before they sang that verse, so the point didn’t get made.

 

[AlegreFe]

I love singing after Communion, depending on the song. To me, singing IS talking to Jesus. He who sings prays twice. Instead of just blowing off the hymn, use it as your prayer. Concentrate on the words. Even if you can’t sing, pray the hymn. That’s why most Christian hymns are written–to glorify God and help you draw near to Him and other believers.

I sing at Communion time also. I used to just kneel, bow my head and pray. But knowing that Holy Communion is also being in communion with the rest of the Body of Christ which is the other Catholic Christians in Mass that just received Jesus in the Eucharist, I wanted to join in the singing with them. That’s what it’s all about, singing/praying together. I stay for the whole song then I kneel and pray for just a few minutes more with Jesus. It also helps not to be in that crowd trying to get out of the parking lot. :whacky: That’s not my reason for staying and praying though; Jesus is the reason I stay and pray!

 

[Revelation13_16]

I think Evangelical Protestant churches are the closest thing to the Early Church personally.

Just read what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 14:23:

23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;

25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

In fact alot of Chapter 14 is very similar to what you’d find in a Pentacostal church these days - though I personally believe the gift of tongues has ceased, and am not a Pentacostal.

Re: Mass

The Mass is very nice, but it’s something that developed slowly over 200 years, and didn’t really hit it’s peak until Christianity became legalized in Rome.

If you look again at Corinthians, Paul chastizes the Corinthians in ch. 11 for getting drunk off the wine and eating too much bread - he asks them can’t they eat at home?

This implies that ‘Communion wafers’ weren’t even heard of, but rather indicates that actual loaves of bread were broken and the Eucharist was a ‘meal’.

Interesting.

All in all if I had to choose between Catholic Mass and a Protestant Sermon, I’d say “why not both?”

I think Mass is great because it’s very nice, but I also question how ‘changed’ its participants are when they leave church on a sunday.

When a Protestant leaves church, he should be thinking about what he’s learnt and how to apply it to his life, to be more like Christ.

Although I’ve only been to a few Masses, the readings and homily are very short, and most people seem to be waiting for the Eucharist.

I think both together would be great personally, have the mass, then the sermon.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[nd_smc_02]

I’m still sort of new to the Catholic Faith. But as I learn more about it, i find that the Mass differs greatly from protestant services in more than just liturgy/no liturgy, communion/no communion, and just stuff like that. But the main thing I find that differs between the two is that Catholics go to Mass to worship God and to only Worship God, of course there is a homily or sermon, but the Eucharist is the main reason for the Mass, to offer Jesus back to God, because it is the only thing that pleases Him because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. But Protestants go to church to worship in a much more different way. Most of them go to feel good, to get ‘recharged’ in their faith, to get something out of the sermon, to hear the good music, to socialize and so on… So what i get is that Catholics to go church to give to God, and protestants to go church to get from God. Am I the only one that thinks this? Am I totally wrong? Please lend me your thoughts on this Thank you!

I do not have time to read through all of the posts this morning, so I apologize if some one else has already posted something similar.

A GREAT book to read to answer your questions and any Protestant’s questions about the Mass is The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn. It is wonderful and explained things to me so concretely. The book is *nihil obstat *for those who are wondering.

**Everyone who has questions should read this book. **

 

[Mannyfit75]

I think Evangelical Protestant churches are the closest thing to the Early Church personally.

Just read what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 14:23:

In fact alot of Chapter 14 is very similar to what you’d find in a Pentacostal church these days - though I personally believe the gift of tongues has ceased, and am not a Pentacostal.

Re: Mass

The Mass is very nice, but it’s something that developed slowly over 200 years, and didn’t really hit it’s peak until Christianity became legalized in Rome.

If you look again at Corinthians, Paul chastizes the Corinthians in ch. 11 for getting drunk off the wine and eating too much bread - he asks them can’t they eat at home?

This implies that ‘Communion wafers’ weren’t even heard of, but rather indicates that actual loaves of bread were broken and the Eucharist was a ‘meal’.

Interesting.

All in all if I had to choose between Catholic Mass and a Protestant Sermon, I’d say “why not both?”

I think Mass is great because it’s very nice, but I also question how ‘changed’ its participants are when they leave church on a sunday.

When a Protestant leaves church, he should be thinking about what he’s learnt and how to apply it to his life, to be more like Christ.

Although I’ve only been to a few Masses, the readings and homily are very short, and most people seem to be waiting for the Eucharist.

I think both together would be great personally, have the mass, then the sermon.

God Bless,
Rev

Really now? I don’t think Evangelical Christians are the closest thing to the Early Church. Most of them don’t even do the Breaking of the Bread. Most have done it on a monthly basis.

The Mass itself focuses on the Sacrifice and Consecration of the Body and Blood of the Lord. Clearly the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church is the closest one.

For one thing, the Early Church had bishops. The Evangelicals lack any bishops nor claim to have any Apostolic Succession.

If you want an ancient form of worship, you are better off with the Catholic Mass, or Orthodox Worship service. These two Churches are old and claimed to be Apostolic.

Rev, I find the lack of bishop and priest in the Evangelical Churches totally distant to the Apostles…

 

[Mannyfit75]

1 Cor 11:20-34 clearly show to be very Catholic.

When you meet together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat.
21: For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.
22: What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
23: For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24: and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25: In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27: Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
28: Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29: For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
30: That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
31: But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged.
32: But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
33: So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another –
34: if any one is hungry, let him eat at home – lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come

 

[Mannyfit75]

Although I’ve only been to a few Masses, the readings and homily are very short, and most people seem to be waiting for the Eucharist.

I think both together would be great personally, have the mass, then the sermon

The Mass only last 45-60 minutes. The reason msot Catholics go there is to received the Body and Blood of the Lord. A devout Catholic would stay 15 to 20 minutes before the Blessed Sacrament to thank Jesus.

The sermons are great, but I go to Church to received Our beloved Lord Jesus Christ. I love to taste the see the goodness of the Lord.

Receiving the Sacred Hosts and his Precious Blood on my mouth strengthens my spiritual well being. He is indeed our spiritual food.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I’m still sort of new to the Catholic Faith. But as I learn more about it, i find that the Mass differs greatly from protestant services in more than just liturgy/no liturgy, communion/no communion, and just stuff like that. But the main thing I find that differs between the two is that Catholics go to Mass to worship God and to only Worship God, of course there is a homily or sermon, but the Eucharist is the main reason for the Mass, to offer Jesus back to God, because it is the only thing that pleases Him because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. But Protestants go to church to worship in a much more different way. Most of them go to feel good, to get ‘recharged’ in their faith, to get something out of the sermon, to hear the good music, to socialize and so on… So what i get is that Catholics to go church to give to God, and protestants to go church to get from God. Am I the only one that thinks this? Am I totally wrong? Please lend me your thoughts on this Thank you!

In my honest opinion you observations are 100% correct. My paternal family have changed churches so many times…they either got tired or bored or they did not like what was being taught…hence they go to get something…not give…

 

[Revelation13_16]

Really now? I don’t think Evangelical Christians are the closest thing to the Early Church. Most of them don’t even do the Breaking of the Bread. Most have done it on a monthly basis.

The Mass itself focuses on the Sacrifice and Consecration of the Body and Blood of the Lord. Clearly the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church is the closest one.

For one thing, the Early Church had bishops. The Evangelicals lack any bishops nor claim to have any Apostolic Succession.

If you want an ancient form of worship, you are better off with the Catholic Mass, or Orthodox Worship service. These two Churches are old and claimed to be Apostolic.

Rev, I find the lack of bishop and priest in the Evangelical Churches totally distant to the Apostles…

Manny, I agree regarding the Lords Supper, Protestants don’t do this enough.

But otherwise, their services are like the Early Church.

I think our terminology conflicts here.

When I say Early Church, I mean Early Church, when the Apostles went out and Paul wrote his epsitles = Well < 100 AD.

After that though, you see the Catholic/Orthodox variety taking shape.

But at a grass roots level, the Evangelical Protestants are closer.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[AlegreFe]

Manny, I agree regarding the Lords Supper, Protestants don’t do this enough.

Even the ones that do it a little more often than others, they don’t do it as Jesus means it to be. They only see it as a symbol. Even some of those that believe it’s not just a symbol, that’s all it is.

Revelation13_16:

But otherwise, their services are like the Early Church.
…
When I say Early Church, I mean Early Church, when the Apostles went out and Paul wrote his epsitles = Well < 100 AD.

The Early Church IS the Catholic Church. The Apostles “going out” is all of our Bishops “sent out” by the Church to all of our diocese and those epsitles are the letters that the Bishops write to us. The Pope writes his Encyclicals and Apostolic letters to us also.

Revelation13_16:

But at a grass roots level, the Evangelical Protestants are closer.

Sorry, but you’re wrong. No protestant service has the Holy Sacrifice that the Catholic Mass has. The Early Church had the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

 

[AlegreFe]

I do not have time to read through all of the posts this morning, so I apologize if some one else has already posted something similar.

A GREAT book to read to answer your questions and any Protestant’s questions about the Mass is The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn. It is wonderful and explained things to me so concretely. The book is *nihil obstat *for those who are wondering.

**Everyone who has questions should read this book. **

Great book and if you can get it on VHS that would be great also. You can get the VHS tape from the EWTN Religious Catalogue. I don’t know if they’re going to get it on DVD or if they have it.

 

[Revelation13_16]

Even the ones that do it a little more often than others, they don’t do it as Jesus means it to be. They only see it as a symbol. Even some of those that believe it’s not just a symbol, that’s all it is.

The Early Church IS the Catholic Church. The Apostles “going out” is all of our Bishops “sent out” by the Church to all of our diocese and those epsitles are the letters that the Bishops write to us. The Pope writes his Encyclicals and Apostolic letters to us also.

Sorry, but you’re wrong. No protestant service has the Holy Sacrifice that the Catholic Mass has. The Early Church had the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Sandy, go read 1 Corinthians 14 and then see how it compares to Mass.

Then go to a Pentacostal church and see what occurs.

God Bless,
Rev

 

[JoeyWarren]

Sandy, go read 1 Corinthians 14 and then see how it compares to Mass.

Then go to a Pentacostal church and see what occurs.

God Bless,
Rev

That chapter is not about what is going on at a church service. It is about the rules governing speaking in tongues.

What is “speaking in tongues?” The Scriptures teach that speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit which allows someone to speak in a foreign language that one does not actually know (in Greek, xenolalia). The Scriptures also indicate that the gift of tongues could mean making ecstatic utterances that are intelligible to God and others who have the gift of interpreting tongues (in Greek, glossalalia). This page provides some biblical information about “tongues-speaking.”

Background
Mark 16:17 – right before Jesus ascended into heaven, He prophesied “they will speak in new tongues.”

There are only four instances in the New Testament where people speak in tongues:

1 - Acts 2:3 – when the Holy Spirit descended upon the twelve apostles on Pentecost Sunday, they began to speak in tongues. Acts 2:6 says that men from fifteen different nations each heard the apostles speaking in their own language.

2 – Acts 10:44-46 – after Peter preached the gospel, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word, and they (including the Gentiles) began to speak in tongues.

3 – Acts 19:5-6 – after Paul baptized and confirmed about twelve Ephesians, they spoke with tongues.

4 – 1 Cor. 12-14 – Paul teaches that members of the Corinthian church had the gift of speaking in tongues.

In each instance in the book of Acts, tongue speaking is heard as if it is a foreign language. This gift of the Holy Spirit was for the purpose of spreading the gospel to all peoples of the world. Peter supports this view when he equates the Gentile tongue-speaking with the tongue-speaking at Pentecost (which was heard as foreign languages) when he says “the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning” (Acts 11:15).