The Mass and Protestant Services very different

[JoeyWarren]

The Gift of Tongues in the Corinthian Church

The type of tongues spoken in the Corinthian church is not as clear. The following Scriptures suggest that the tongue-speaking at Corinth was also heard as foreign languages, just like the tongue-speaking in the book of Acts:

Foreign languages

1 Cor. 14:21 – when Paul instructs the Corinthians about speaking in tongues, he quotes from Isaiah 28:11 which is about the “alien tongue” of foreign invaders, which means a foreign language. For Paul to quote Isaiah without any other explanation suggests that the tongue-speaking at Corinth was in the form of foreign languages.

In fact, no where in 1 Cor. 12-14 does Paul make any distinction between the tongue-speaking in Acts and the tongue-speaking at Corinth (and this is important because the Ephesians’ tongue-speaking in Acts 19:5-6 chronologically occurred around the same time as the Corinthian tongue-speaking). If there would have been a significant difference between the two (foreign languages versus ecstatic utterances), Paul would have likely acknowledged this distinction as he gave the Corinthians instructions about speaking in tongues.

1 Cor. 14:5 – when Paul says “unless someone interprets,” the word for interprets (in Greek, diermhneuvh) always refers to the interpretation of a foreign language (see John 1:42; 9:7; Heb. 7:2).

Ecstatic utterances

The following Scriptures, however, suggest that the tongue-speaking at Corinth was in the form of unintelligible ecstatic utterances, and not foreign languages. For example:

1 Cor. 14:2 – Paul says “For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.” Describing these utterances as “mysteries” may indicate that such speech was unintelligible. This type of tongue was also spoken to God, and not to men, which means that the tongue did not have to be in any particular language (God would understand the utterances in the Spirit). This may be similar to the divine “tongues of angels” (1 Cor. 13:1).

1 Cor. 14:4 – Paul says “He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.” If the person is speaking a foreign language he cannot understand, then he would not be edifying himself, unless the language would be interpreted for him. But this may be why Paul required someone to interpret the tongues at Corinth (see 1 Cor. 14:13,27-28). This, however, does not absolutely mean the tongues were foreign languages. The gift of interpretation could have been for interpreting unintelligible divine utterances as well.

1 Cor. 14:10-11 – Paul describes the tongues at Corinth as “sound” (in Greek, phonon). While foreign languages are heard as sounds, this seems different from the tongues which were described in the book of Acts as “language” (in Greek, dialektos). However, Luke also describes the tongue-speaking of Acts 2:6 as “sound,” even though it was heard as “language.”

1 Cor. 14:16-17 – Paul says that the tongues at Corinth were spoken to give thanks to God. While speaking the gospel in a foreign language does indeed give thanks to God, this type of speech may be private communication between God and the speaker, which would not require the use of a foreign language.

1 Cor. 14:23 – Paul says that unbelievers who hear the Corinthians speaking in tongues will conclude that they “are mad.” This suggests that the Corinthians were speaking in unintelligible utterances, although outsiders would also be tempted to call those “mad” who were speaking foreign languages they did not know (perhaps implying that they were possessed by demons).

Ecstatic utterances that were heard as foreign languages

It is also possible that the Corinthians were making unintelligible ecstatic utterances that were then understood by gifted hearers as intelligible foreign languages (which would be both inspired and interpreted by the power of the Holy Spirit). For example:

Acts 2:6 – the Pentecost tongue-speaking is described as a “sound,” and yet it was heard as the specific foreign “language” by men of fifteen different nations. This type of tongue-speaking appears to be a translation of sound into language. Moreover, Acts 2:4 suggests that the apostles began to speak at one time, and yet their many voices are described as one “sound” in Acts 2:6. This suggests that the tongue-speaking was in the form of one sound, but was heard as many languages (in fact, you have only twelve apostles speaking, but fifteen different languages being heard).

1 Cor. 14:5 – the fact that the Corinthians’ utterances were actually being translated into language by the Holy Spirit for certain people may be the reason why Paul required the Corinthians to have gifted interpreters when they spoke in tongues. Again, the word “interprets” refers to the interpretation of foreign languages.

1 Cor. 14:10-11 – Paul’s use of “sound” to describe the tongues of the Corinthian church is the same word “sound” (from the Greek, phonee) that Luke uses to describe the tongues in Acts 2:6, which were heard as foreign languages.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Paul’s Teachings on Speaking in Tongues

Paul teaches that tongue-speaking is a gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:4,10-11). Paul therefore does not prohibit tongue-speaking (1 Cor. 14:39) and even encourages it (1 Cor. 14:5) when received according to his parameters.

However, Paul warns us that tongue-speaking is not always a gift of the Spirit, but may originate out of spiritual pride and immaturity. This is why Paul called the Corinthians immature (1 Cor. 3:1-3; 14:20), and said they were seeking the wisdom of men and not God (1 Cor. 2:5,13; 3:18). Many people in the Corinthian church claimed to have the gift of tongues, but were actually mimicking the divine gift in order to gain ascendancy in the church. This caused arrogance, dissensions and jealousies among them (1 Cor. 1:10-13; 3:3; 4:6-7,18; 5:2; 11:17-22).

Tongue-speaking can also have demonic origins. When people are unfaithful and motivated by pride and not love for God, God can allow demons to enter the church to punish the unfaithful. These demons can appear holy and good, and inspire tongue-speaking and other speech, but they are really deceivers who wish to confuse the faithful and lead them away from the truth (cf. Ezek. 14:6-11; 1 Kings 22:22-23). Paul warns that some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). This is why John tells us to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

Therefore, tongue-speaking can be a gift of the Holy Spirit, or may be of human or demonic origin. Paul makes several important points regarding the gift of tongues:

1 – The gift of tongues is a lesser gift from God. While speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit, Paul teaches that it is a lesser gift on the continuum of divine gifts from God (1 Cor. 12:10,28,30). For example, Paul says that tongues is a much lesser gift than the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 14:1-5,19,22). In fact, the gift of tongues is not even mentioned among the gifts of the Spirit in the latter books of the New Testament (Rom. 12:4-8; Eph. 4:11-12; Gal. 5:22; 1 Peter 4:7-11; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6).

2 – The gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). The Greek word for “cease” (pauomai) means that the gift of tongues will end abruptly, on its own, and will not be replaced by another gift. The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way. When Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Paul does not say when the gift of tongues would cease, and whether the gift would return intermittently after its cessation. However, Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day. Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed). The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

Nevertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Tongue-speaking has strict parameters. Finally, Paul prescribed strict parameters for those who would receive the gift of tongues:

(a) The person who speaks in tongues should pray for the power to interpret his own tongue (1 Cor. 14:13), or have someone who has the gift of interpretation present to interpret the tongue (1 Cor. 14:27). If the tongue cannot be interpreted, the person is to remain silent (1 Cor. 14:28). Therefore, tongues should not be unintelligible utterances, but should be understood (1 Cor. 14:6-12).

        (b) In a congregation, only two or three people at most should speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:27), and each must speak in turn.  This is the case even though there may be hundreds or even thousands of people in a church.  The many Protestant churches that call upon many people, even hundreds during a service, to speak in tongues contravenes Paul’s divine mandate, and raises doubts about its authenticity.

        (c) The tongue-speaking must be done for the edification of the Church (1 Cor. 14:5,26).  Paul says that a person who speaks in tongues edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4) which is good, but Paul also says tongues must edify the Church. This is why Paul requires one to interpret the tongue, and why Paul says only two or three at the most should speak in tongues during an assembly.  A mass proliferation of tongue-speaking in an assembly would lead to confusion.  This would not be of divine origin because Paul says, in connection with tongue-speaking, that God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).

        (d) After setting the parameters of tongue-speaking and warning against avoiding confusion, Paul says that “women should keep silence in the churches.  For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, even as the law says” (1 Cor. 14:34).  This means that women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church.  Paul is underscoring that this is a divine command from God when he ends his statement with “even as the law says.”  Again, many Protestant churches contravene this divine command by allowing women to speak “in tongues” in their assemblies. 

        (e)  Paul teaches that a proliferation of tongue-speaking in a church may actually be a sign of unbelief and God’s ensuing judgment upon them.  When Paul teaches the Corinthians about the proper use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21), he quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12: “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”  Paul’s use of Isaiah is significant because he is referring to the apostate Jews of the 8th century right before they were destroyed by the Assyrians.  To punish the Jews, God first allowed the Assyrians to speak in foreign tongues to them to confuse them before they were ultimately destroyed. God’s judgment being revealed in the form of foreign tongues was first prophesied to Israel in the 15th century, B.C. (see Deut. 28:49-50).  Remember also how God sent unintelligible tongues to punish His people for their lack of faith at the tower of Babel (Genesis 11).

Therefore, Paul is warning the Corinthians that their abuse of tongue-speaking is a sign of God’s judgment against them. These abuses included many people speaking in tongues, out of turn, without an interpreter, and for pride and not the edification of the church. This is why Paul says that “tongues are a sign…for unbelievers” (1 Cor. 14:22). This is the same “sign” that God gave the unbelieving Jews before they were punished.

This is also why Paul says that unbelievers look at the whole Corinthian church speaking in tongues and conclude that they “are mad” (1 Cor. 14:23). Paul is telling the Corinthians that their abuse of tongues makes them look insane, and this is a sign of their unbelief (that is why tongues are a “sign for unbelievers”; the “unbelievers” were the Corinthians themselves). This is the same reason why Jesus spoke in parables, to further harden the hearts of those who did not believe in Him, as a punishment for their lack of faith (Matt. 13:13-15).

 

[JoeyWarren]

I grew up in a “Speaking Tongues” church.

I think you should read 1 Cor 14 yourself and dissect it in it’s entirety. You will find out that your church members that are speaking in tongues are not valid tongue speaking but just a by-product of misunderstanding and over-zealousness and emotionalism.

Once I read Corinthians 14 and discovered all the strict parameters governing the speaking in tongues and reflecting on what transpires in my church as a youth and after visiting other churches now that speak in tongues and testing the fruits of the spirit, I found out that most cases of speaking in tongues is more akin to the fruits of false prophets.

 

[happygal]

I grew up in a “Speaking Tongues” church.

I think you should read 1 Cor 14 yourself and dissect it in it’s entirety. You will find out that your church members that are speaking in tongues are not valid tongue speaking but just a by-product of misunderstanding and over-zealousness and emotionalism.

Once I read Corinthians 14 and discovered all the strict parameters governing the speaking in tongues and reflecting on what transpires in my church as a youth and after visiting other churches now that speak in tongues and testing the fruits of the spirit, I found out that most cases of speaking in tongues is more akin to the fruits of false prophets.

**Joey
You did make a good explanation about speaking in tongues. I hope that is what CC have taught you and not solely you interpreted the bible on its own.
Also if you claimed that speaking in tongues is more akin to the fruits of false prophets, then CC should not even have Charismatic movement within itself. Probably what you should have pointed out is, speaking in tongues could solely be done in private during our personal QT and not during the service if without interpretation of tongues should there be any God’s public revelation.

Many of the Catholics speaks in tongues as well, thus you might need to re-structured your last sentence to avoid making others thinks that speaking in tongues are demonic for most tradition church goers already have this bad impression of speaking in tongue and some don’t even believe in it.

I do agree speaking in tongues needs interpretation especially one with Public revelation from God, i do heard from my church member mentioned that someone walked up to my Pastor to interpret his tongue. Thus i believe interpretation of tongues is also a gift from Holy Spirit for it is not given to everyone as well **

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I suspect that this has already been written hence this is a reemphasis. Where there is no sacrifice there is no worship. Therefore, only Catholics and Orthodox worship.

CDL

 

[JoeyWarren]

**Joey
You did make a good explanation about speaking in tongues. I hope that is what CC have taught you and not solely you interpreted the bible on its own.
Also if you claimed that speaking in tongues is more akin to the fruits of false prophets, then CC should not even have Charismatic movement within itself. Probably what you should have pointed out is, speaking in tongues could solely be done in private during our personal QT and not during the service if without interpretation of tongues should there be any God’s public revelation.

Many of the Catholics speaks in tongues as well, thus you might need to re-structured your last sentence to avoid making others thinks that speaking in tongues are demonic for most tradition church goers already have this bad impression of speaking in tongue and some don’t even believe in it.

I do agree speaking in tongues needs interpretation especially one with Public revelation from God, i do heard from my church member mentioned that someone walked up to my Pastor to interpret his tongue. Thus i believe interpretation of tongues is also a gift from Holy Spirit for it is not given to everyone as well **

I agree with you happy gal. The only problem is that I’ve never attended a Catholic Charismatic Mass. I don’t even know where the nearest one is. I never knew they existed until I came here to the forums. Personally I am suspicious and wary of any “Speaking in Tongues”.

When as a child I questioned the “Speaking in Tongues”, I was told this: "Speaking in Tongues is a sign of being “Totally Sanctified”. Does this sound familiar to you?

IMHO, I think Pauls writings on this subject is a parallel reiteration of the warning that Jesus gave while walking this earth as follows:

Originally Posted by Matthew 6: 1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Moreso when every instance I have witnessed of “Speaking in Tongues” has always been “Repititious”

 

[jsenner]

I think Evangelical Protestant churches are the closest thing to the Early Church personally.

I have a recommendation of a book for you to read. It’s called “The Use of Sacrificial Ideas in Greek Christian Writers from the New Testament to John Chrysostom” and it’s by Frances M. Young. After you read this book you may wish to take back your statement that the Evangelical Protestant churches are the closest thing to the very primitive early Christians.

amazon.com/Sacrificial-Christian-Writers-Testament-Chrysostom/dp/159244928X/sr=8-1/qid=1172072786/ref=sr_1_1/102-5798402-7080144?ie=UTF8&s=books

I used to think like you do, myself.

Jeremiah

 

[Mannyfit75]

Even the ones that do it a little more often than others, they don’t do it as Jesus means it to be. They only see it as a symbol. Even some of those that believe it’s not just a symbol, that’s all it is.

The Early Church IS the Catholic Church. The Apostles “going out” is all of our Bishops “sent out” by the Church to all of our diocese and those epsitles are the letters that the Bishops write to us. The Pope writes his Encyclicals and Apostolic letters to us also.

Sorry, but you’re wrong. No protestant service has the Holy Sacrifice that the Catholic Mass has. The Early Church had the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Well said. I could have said the same thing as you.

 

[happygal]

I agree with you happy gal. The only problem is that I’ve never attended a Catholic Charismatic Mass. I don’t even know where the nearest one is. I never knew they existed until I came here to the forums. Personally I am suspicious and wary of any “Speaking in Tongues”.

**Oh i see, understood…Maybe one of this day you can attend once, but more or less the Charismatic Mass are almost the same like the Pentencostal Charismatic, rather louder then the tradtion Mass, thus you might not feel comfortable. Since you are suspicious about it, then you will not able to receive this gift, coz if you wanted to speaks in tongue, you have to open yrself up for Holy Spirit to work in you

I got this from a Catholic website , please read about it

It is not uncommon to find an attitude of non-participation among people in the charismatic renewal today. An attitude that says, Gifts are just for special people and Ill just sit back and get blessed by other people using them. The spiritual gifts are not intended to be for a few people, but for everyone in the Body of Christ. To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.(1 OCR 12:7) When we have received the Spirit, the question is not, ?Do I have the gifts?? The questions are, What gifts have I been given???‘How does the Lord want me to exercise the charisms He has given me?? We will be most blessed by the gifts we allow the Lord to use us for. We need to be free of false humility that stifles the gifts. We need to recognise that the charismatic gifts are gifts from God, not of human origin but the fruit of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ** - fruit that we don’'t deserve and didn?t earn - that are free, absolutely free gifts from God.He singled out the weak to shame the strong (1 OCR 1:27). We need to let this recognition overcome a false humility that says we are too sinful, too unworthy or ignorant to be use by God. They are gifts of Gods love - gifts of the God who says, Would a father give his son a snake when he asked for a fish?? (Luke 11:11)

When as a child I questioned the “Speaking in Tongues”, I was told this: "Speaking in Tongues is a sign of being “Totally Sanctified”. Does this sound familiar to you?

**
Oh i never heard of this, sorry…**

IMHO, I think Pauls writings on this subject is a parallel reiteration of the warning that Jesus gave while walking this earth as follows:

More so when every instance I have witnessed of “Speaking in Tongues” has always been “Repititious”

Speaking in tongues solely does not mean to speak in other language apart from your native one so that you understand what you speaks to God (refer to one Catholic’s website explanation below) then you will understand.

Gift of prayer tongues is simply the ability given by Almighty God to praise Him in the language of the Holy Spirit, in which the one praying in tongues will not understand the sounds, but only the Lord Himself can know the nature of the prayer which is prompted through the action of the Holy Spirit

Sometime when pple starts to get weay becoz of their human thoughts, fearing this and that…blar…blar…we have unexpectedly fail to get connected to Holy Spirit. The fact is many pple does not allow this to take place, althought many have the baptism/confirmation but they never surrender to Jesus and never fully allow Holy Spirit to regim in them. Thus it is highly recommend for all Christian/Catholic to go for Charismatic renewal in their churches. I hope you can pray to have those doubts remove from you and to experience what Holy Spirit can do to your life…Find sometime to attend Charismatic renewal, be open and i’m sure you will experience the power of Holy Spirit

 

[water]

Since you are suspicious about it, then you will not able to receive this gift, coz if you wanted to speaks in tongue, you have to open yrself up for Holy Spirit to work in you

It is not always true for this case. I am not saying that we should not open up to God - yes, we must. However, I’ve seen and met people who had doubt about this and when it happened to them, they believe.

All of us are in some sort of doubtful. If we are not, we could have a faith that ask the mountain to move. God knows our weakness and He still helps us in His own way. Thomas was one of us who doubted about the resurrection of Jesus. Did Jesus let him be that way for the rest of his life. No, Jesus appeared to him and let him believe.

Also, not everyone who is opened up for the gifts will receive the gifts - not everybody will have the same gift.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I chalk up “Speaking in Tongues” types in the same category as “Faith Healers”.

IE Benny Hinn, Ernest Angsley…I’ve seen these two do their “Speaking in Tongues” act in addition to their faith healing. Both have been exposed as frauds. There is no reason to believe that the speaking in tongues is a fraud as well.

Tongue-speaking can also have demonic origins. When people are unfaithful and motivated by pride and not love for God, God can allow demons to enter the church to punish the unfaithful. These demons can appear holy and good, and inspire tongue-speaking and other speech, but they are really deceivers who wish to confuse the faithful and lead them away from the truth (cf. Ezek. 14:6-11; 1 Kings 22:22-23). Paul warns that some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). This is why John tells us to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

This is why I am wary. My wariness is very Biblical. We don’t know the true motiviation and the true character of people.

Too many people are impressionable and therefore taken in by those that are suspect.

Furthermore the gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). The Greek word for “cease” (pauomai) means that the gift of tongues will end abruptly, on its own, and will not be replaced by another gift. The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way. When Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Paul does not say when the gift of tongues would cease, and whether the gift would return intermittently after its cessation. However, Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day. Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed). The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

 

[happygal]

Hi Water

If you have read what i have taken from the catholic website, you would more or less understand what it said. Believing it is one thing , but having doubts with tongues is another. How can you get connected to Holy Spirit to receive the tongue when in the area place your heart are covered with doubts and suspicious. I personally experienced it myself before. For i always believe in tongue, but i have doubts if God will give that to me coz i am a terrible sinner…blar…blar…thus i never receive it initially, despite praying for it!!! But after i broke away those dark clouds and prayed to God for it, i gotten it. The joy just explored from inwardly…

Yes i understand pple do have doubts. Doubts = fear, fear is the weakness of fresh.
But if one spend almost 5 - 10years (an average) with God and yet have doubts with him of what Holy Spirit can do to their life, then something is missing somewhere…Our spiritual life as we move, will grow higher and higher, not lower or stagnant…

So my question is, will it be good to have Abraham faith instead?? Why doubt about it?? Be open to ask the truth to be reveals to you and not sit there and wait till God appear to you. If one never take a step forward to search the truth, how does God reveal to you.?? God don’t simply pop up out from no where and give you an answer

CC proclaimed the 100% truth of Christianity faith , then while Vatican II (John Pope II, Paul IV) have urged and encouraged his members to be open for Charismatic movement for they recognized the spiritual growth that catholic can have once they are open to Charis movement, then why doubt the Popes? people can point out about the truth on their doctrine and dogma…blar…blar…yet have doubts with Charis movement …One can embrace the doctrine and dogma, yet does not embrace Charis movement within the community, sound ironic…What we think we are not comfortable with, is becoz of our very own mindset not the church…If pple build a thick wall in front of them, no matter how hard you pray about asking God for an answer, you will not get the answer… coz you have your own war to fight…

Taken from a Catholic website which explain why Charis movement is important

without practical, living faith in all the charis of the Holy Spirit, the Church will never reach full, shared consciousness as a community of faith. Bby reaching full, shared, faith consciousness can the Christian community exist as a Church. The Church must re-appropriate all the charis of the Holy Spirit.

Water, although Catholic has different version of the 7 gifts from Holy Spirit which is Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety, Fear of the Lord where as Protestant gifts are Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith, Healing, Prophecy, Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues, Discernment of Spirit, Miracles. Now the CC have acknowledge of discovering new gifts from Holy Spirit that is under the Charismatic movement like speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing. That explains the beginning of Charismatic renewal movement within the CC community. Tongue is the most common gifts out of prophecy and healing where everyone can receive follow by healing with prophecy being the hardest to get.

Attend Charismatic renewal when members/priest will pray for the baptism of the spirit for you to receive the most common gift “Tongue”(do not get confuse with the word Baptism with the Sacramental baptism, it is different) Baptism under Charismatic movement = immersion into God in a fuller way. Thus it explain why some tradition church goers have doubts and careful of what Christian term it as movement in spirit as they don’t understand where I am coming from…Only those who has experience and get connected to it will understand the power of Holy Spirit.

Go to any Catholic Charismatic renewal website and understand such movement, then you will know what I am talking about. On the other hand is up to individual whether they wanted it anot

 

[happygal]

I chalk up “Speaking in Tongues” types in the same category as “Faith Healers”.

IE Benny Hinn, Ernest Angsley…I’ve seen these two do their “Speaking in Tongues” act in addition to their faith healing. Both have been exposed as frauds. There is no reason to believe that the speaking in tongues is a fraud as well.

Joey, do not doubts too much about others who have committed frauds or sin with the gift of God. Pastors and Priests are all human, God already know who will sin against him in the 1st place, then yet he still bless these pple with his gifts (protestant and catholic version of Holy Spirit’s gift) but then again they will eventually face the judgement themselves isn’t it?? God’s teaching have no mistakes. Is just that human being find it difficult to understand God’s will that’s all.

Tongue-speaking can also have demonic origins. When people are unfaithful and motivated by pride and not love for God, God can allow demons to enter the church to punish the unfaithful. These demons can appear holy and good, and inspire tongue-speaking and other speech, but they are really deceivers who wish to confuse the faithful and lead them away from the truth (cf. Ezek. 14:6-11; 1 Kings 22:22-23). Paul warns that some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). This is why John tells us to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

So are you doubting the Catholic Charismatic movement with itself can have demonic orgins?? You have to ask this question to yourself

This is why I am wary. My wariness is very Biblical. We don’t know the true motiviation and the true character of people.

If you have doubts about your wariness, then bring it to the church. Ask you shall receive, search you shall find…The church is there for you isn’t it?? The more doubts/wariness you have the more you shut yourself up!! Which i find you are in this stage…sorry to say that…

Too many people are impressionable and therefore taken in by those that are suspect.

Furthermore the gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). The Greek word for “cease” (pauomai) means that the gift of tongues will end abruptly, on its own, and will not be replaced by another gift. The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way. When Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Paul does not say when the gift of tongues would cease, and whether the gift would return intermittently after its cessation. However, Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day. Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed). The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

**Joey, as mentioned before, you might like to present your concern with bible facts about tongues to your church for they will interpret that for you to understand. And don’t forget Catholic does not solely believes in Sola Scriptura!!! So why gets concern about it not written officially in the bible, you don’t believe God gives public revelation to the CC?? Or simply you have doubts with Pope who acknowledge such movement?? You have lots of question to ask yourself about your self make doubts!!! **

 

[Mannyfit75]

I like to add that speaking in tongues is no where required to part of Christian worship, only the breading of the bread, and sacrifice of Lamb of God.

 

[AlegreFe]

That’s right Manny. No where does it say that Christian Worship needs to be in tongues. Just because some protestant services have this does not make it right.

In order to be a Christian Worship, Sacrifice is needed. And what better fitting Sacrifice is there to be offered to God the Father than His own Son. We Catholics have that in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[water]

Hi Water

If you have read what i have taken from the catholic website, you would more or less understand what it said. Believing it is one thing , but having doubts with tongues is another. How can you get connected to Holy Spirit to receive the tongue when in the area place your heart are covered with doubts and suspicious. I personally experienced it myself before. For i always believe in tongue, but i have doubts if God will give that to me coz i am a terrible sinner…blar…blar…thus i never receive it initially, despite praying for it!!! But after i broke away those dark clouds and prayed to God for it, i gotten it. The joy just explored from inwardly…

I had doubted about it and received the gift at the same time within the first 3 days I attended my very first seminar on Light in the Spirit. However, the more I talked with some folks having the gifts, the more I doubt it - I can’t be so sure 100% from God. The reasons, I have seen good fruits and bad fruits; therefore, at this time, I am not using the Speaking in tongue gift. I pray more though in the old way. I am not denying about any of the gifts, I just need to know it more and how to use it. I’ve seen quite enough people abusing the gifts.

If you think the gift is true, then would all the supernatural experiences one has come from God?

 

[happygal]

I like to add that speaking in tongues is no where required to part of Christian worship, only the breading of the bread, and sacrifice of Lamb of God.

**Manny

Speaking in tongues not part of a Christian worship?? It is not official in Mass, does not mean tongues are for nothing. It is a powerful worshipping gift for your personal prayer life and prayer ministry…thus do not under estimate tongues

Taken from a Catholic Website it explains
Church needs charisms of prayer, like tongues and the other prayer gifts, as well as gifts of healing if it expects to experience in a vivid way the saving presence of God in its midst. Without a vivid sense of God’s saving presence, the Church will forget that only the saving grace of God creates and sustains it as a community; and that kind of tragic forgetting will make the Christian community indistinguishable from any other natural or sinful human community. A Church that looks like any other natural or sinful human community cannot, however, mediate Christ and His Spirit effectively to a sinful world.

So do not limits oneself from growing further where the chuch have lay such a solid foundation for the Catholic . The Pope does not acknowledged something that is of no use to his members GROWTH…GROWTH…get what i mean

Why am i promoting Catholic Charismatic Movement to the Catholic where i’m a protestant. Waste my time right!!! Is up to individual to come up will their own acceptance, but then again i cannot bear to see those who unable to embrace the beauty of CCM, coz i wish everyone to grow further and not hinder by any thoughts of their…

**

 

[happygal]

I had doubted about it and received the gift at the same time within the first 3 days I attended my very first seminar on Light in the Spirit. However, the more I talked with some folks having the gifts, the more I doubt it - I can’t be so sure 100% from God. The reasons, I have seen good fruits and bad fruits; therefore, at this time, I am not using the Speaking in tongue gift. I pray more though in the old way. I am not denying about any of the gifts, I just need to know it more and how to use it. I’ve seen quite enough people abusing the gifts.

**Hi Water

Oh great, that you have the gifts. Ask you one question, if happen a priest have the all the three gifts and all of the sudden he sin against God. So does that mean his gift is not 100% from God?? Gifts are given to us to helps others, but falling pray to Satan is becoz you do not make way for Holy Spirit to move in you. Human have lots of weakness in us that Satan can always seize the opportunity to use us.
Ist of all when Holy Spirit move, it does not mean he control your body or take control of your mind. You are still need to focus upon his kingdom and carries out his righteousness and miracle for him…And if your thoughts starts to derail, then how would others see good fruits in you…

Example, if i have the gift of miracle healing…then i don’t have to work at all , all the hospital can close down their business. I can have a clinic myself and charge any amount of consultation fees i like…and in this case, do you think i will still have the gift of healing in time to comes when i proclaim my faith as a Christian? Of course not…talking about those pple who have healing gift of which the Catholic find they misused the it, then why God didn’t take the gift away from them, becoz God Love his creation so much and are patiently waiting for such pple to turn around, they will sow what their reap. Sow good deeds reap deeds, sow bad deeds reap bad deeds…eventually the judgement will come, is all about God’s timing…

And if the gift are from Satan, then isn’t it better, no need to waste so much time travelling here and there for crusade why so much of hardwork right!!! Waste time and enegry!!!
Why gift of healing are given only to Christ believers and not the pagan/atheist/agnostic/buddhist/hindus…etc…etc…?? God also created them!!! We are different from the rest…we are his chosen pple…yet on the another hand we also struggles with our own sins and bad doing…but God’s love for us are unconditional and always patient with us to change!!!**
If you think the gift is true, then would all the supernatural experiences one has come from God?

What kind of supernatural experiences are you refering??

 

[water]

What kind of supernatural experiences are you refering??

Thanks for taking your time to answer. I am thankful for that. For the question above, I will send you PM if you don’t mind. I am afraid we might derail the topic.