The mass and the flu

[armbro]

The flu season is upon us, and this year many of us will not be vacinated against the flu due to the shortage of vaccine. My point here is this. Is it not reasonable for the church to institute changes in an attempt to protect those in attendance at mass. The flu is a virus, and viruses are commomnly spread via droplets from coughs, sneezes and hand contact. The Mass is the perfect venue for spreading the flu virus. The shaking of hands which has become part of the Mass, and the placing of the communion host directly on the tongue are both ideal scenarios for transmitting the flu virus. I still observe priests and eucharistic ministers grimacing when they inadvertently “contaminate” their fingers with saliva which occurs all to frequently. This means that every subsequent host they touch becomes “contaminated” by saliva which could contain the flu virus. Solution, suspend these practices at least until the flu season is past, if not permanently. A simple nod of the head would suffice for the hand shake, and require everyone to take the communion host in their hands.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

armbro:

The flu season is upon us, and this year many of us will not be vacinated against the flu due to the shortage of vaccine. My point here is this. Is it not reasonable for the church to institute changes in an attempt to protect those in attendance at mass. The flu is a virus, and viruses are commomnly spread via droplets from coughs, sneezes and hand contact. The Mass is the perfect venue for spreading the flu virus. The shaking of hands which has become part of the Mass, and the placing of the communion host directly on the tongue are both ideal scenarios for transmitting the flu virus. I still observe priests and eucharistic ministers grimacing when they inadvertently “contaminate” their fingers with saliva which occurs all to frequently. This means that every subsequent host they touch becomes “contaminated” by saliva which could contain the flu virus. Solution, suspend these practices at least until the flu season is past, if not permanently. A simple nod of the head would suffice for the hand shake, and require everyone to take the communion host in their hands.

Actually during a prior flu season several diocese suspended the chalice for several weeks. I think it reasonable to not shake hands, hold hands, not receive from the chalice, and also to receive the Host in your hand.

 

[juanh]

all good points…I know that our parish stopped the use of the Chalice during a previous flu period…perhaps we should consider it again.

 

[Pug]

I’m not sure if this is off topic or not, but your topic reminds me of a very Catholic friend of mine whom I do not understand. At one time she was undergoing chemotherapy for cancer and her immune system had been very weak, but she likes to say that she always still received from the chalice and she had faith that no germs would come to her from the chalice. I don’t understand this faith. I’d ask her, but it is a “point” with her and I don’t feel I could profitably ask her about it.

Does anyone here feel that they are protected from germs hurting them that might be clinging to the chalice? Could you explain?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Pug:

I’m not sure if this is off topic or not, but your topic reminds me of a very Catholic friend of mine whom I do not understand. At one time she was undergoing chemotherapy for cancer and her immune system had been very weak, but she likes to say that she always still received from the chalice and she had faith that no germs would come to her from the chalice. I don’t understand this faith. I’d ask her, but it is a “point” with her and I don’t feel I could profitably ask her about it.

Does anyone here feel that they are protected from germs hurting them that might be clinging to the chalice? Could you explain?

As I pointed out above if anyone does not want to they do not have to. I have been administering the chalice for over ten years and had been the last person to consume the remaining Blood of Christ after everyone else. I do not know of ever contracting anything from this privilege.

Also remember my fellow brown robes who ministered to the sick and dying during the plague. If I recall correctly none of them died of the disease.

 

[armbro]

Br. Rich SFO:

As I pointed out above if anyone does not want to they do not have to. I have been administering the chalice for over ten years and had been the last person to consume the remaining Blood of Christ after everyone else. I do not know of ever contracting anything from this privilege.

Also remember my fellow brown robes who ministered to the sick and dying during the plague. If I recall correctly none of them died of the disease.

I have heard this response before, and it is still irresponsible. Since there is no data base available, one cannot make such statements.
Given the known criteria about how flu viruses are spread, the current mass structure remians a prime source for infection.

 

[thann]

I always receive the Precious Blood from the cup and will continue to do so. Does my faith protect me? I believe so. Last year announcements were made that people could refrain from receiving the Precious Blood if they wanted to, but it was still offered. Also, people were also told they did not need to kiss the cross on Good Friday, but most continued to do so.

Is it irresponsible to continue to drink from the cup? Not in my opinion, and I am the one taking the risk.

I read an article last year about this concern, and the writer (a priest, I believe) said that he never once heard of someone becoming ill after drinking from the cup. True, there is no database keeping track of this issue, but you would think that someone would have first-hand knowledge of such an event, and there is none.

'thann

 

[Pug]

Br. Rich SFO:

Also remember my fellow brown robes who ministered to the sick and dying during the plague. If I recall correctly none of them died of the disease.

Thanks for the answer. So it seems mostly because of a lack of any known evidence of people getting sick from the chalice.

About visiting the sick, I do think that it is sometimes important to leave the set of full body armour at the door (mask, gloves, gown, etc). Much better to be a normal face and a normal set of hands when visiting. At least that is how I think about being a minister of care bringing the communion to them.

 

[Sola]

armbro:

I have heard this response before, and it is still irresponsible. Since there is no data base available, one cannot make such statements.
Given the known criteria about how flu viruses are spread, the current mass structure remians a prime source for infection.

I don’t want the Mass to change because of a seasonal virus. I want Mass to remain the same. Like Bro. Rich said, if a person does not want to drink, shake, whatever, he does not have to. I believe that the Lord will protect those who seek the Eucharist, and even if a person did get sick from drinking the Blood, maybe God wanted him/her to get sick! We can’t understand why God does all the things He does, and He might have a reason for someone to come down with a virus.

If I am sick, then it is my responsibility to make changes - not drink, make sure my hands are washed, etc. It’s not up to the rest of the Church to start doing things differently.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Sola:

I don’t want the Mass to change because of a seasonal virus. I want Mass to remain the same. Like Bro. Rich said, if a person does not want to drink, shake, whatever, he does not have to. I believe that the Lord will protect those who seek the Eucharist, and even if a person did get sick from drinking the Blood, maybe God wanted him/her to get sick! We can’t understand why God does all the things He does, and He might have a reason for someone to come down with a virus.

If I am sick, then it is my responsibility to make changes - not drink, make sure my hands are washed, etc. It’s not up to the rest of the Church to start doing things differently.

Sola, what you say makes sense as does what Bro. Rich is saying but…

We are dealing with people here. What if someone is sick and still partakes of the Chalice? What if someone is sick and still shakes hands? Does not the Church have a duty to protect people?

Tell me…

How does the Mass change when the priest either omits the Kiss of Peace (which is optional anyways) or makes the statement (as was done at the Church I attended this past weekend) that you many just say “Peace be with you” and not shake hands.

How does the Mass change when the Chalice is not offered to the people? The fullness of Christ is found in the Bread, it is the Body and Blood, you do not need to recieve both.

 

[KCT]

Br. Rich SFO:

Actually during a prior flu season several diocese suspended the chalice for several weeks. I think it reasonable to not shake hands, hold hands, not receive from the chalice, and also to receive the Host in your hand.

Our parish suspended use of the chalice during flu season last year. When I have a cold, I refrain from receiving on my tongue and receive on my hand. I don’t think the EM or priest should have to put his hand that near my mouth and my germs!! --KCT

 

[FenianMan]

Many posters have already pointed out some very serious issues that certainly need to be considered. I would simply add thus:

1. Communion under both species is an option anyway. The current practice of most of the United States receiving under both species at every Mass is clearly contrary to the authentic spirit of Vatican II (see the suggestions in Sacrosanctum Concilium), and, more importantly, has necessitated the rampant (ab)use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. I would have us eliminate the practice during flu season and then only ressurect it on special occasions.
2. The Kiss of Peace, as already noted, is also an option. As it clearly makes some people uncomfortable and could further problems of disease, likewise omit it. Further, while it is an option, hardly anyone knows it as such. Most common layfolk can tell you that Father has options during the penitential rite (which he does), but would say that omitting the Kiss of Peace is an abuse. If for no other reason than education, let alone hygiene, we ought to dispense with it for flu season.
3. No one, save the Congregation of Sacred Worship, has the authority to mandate that I receive Holy Communion in my hands. This was a foolishly granted indult provided for in the face of bishops who began the practice as an abuse. The problem is not that receiving on the tongue is less sanitary; the problem is that few people, either priests or layfolk, know how to properly receive (or distribute) on the tongue. Go to a Mass using the '62 missal (celebrated by a priest who does so frequently) and watch him at communion. Years of practice accustom one, and the people who frequent such masses know just how far out to place their tongues. There is a way to do this reverently, and there is a way to distribute santarily. I assume that the initial suggestion was made in good faith, but I think it is fundamentally erroneous.

 

[Michael_Welter]

3. No one, save the Congregation of Sacred Worship, has the authority to mandate that I receive Holy Communion in my hands. This was a foolishly granted indult provided for in the face of bishops who began the practice as an abuse.

If the Bride of Christ makes a change in the laws or customs of the Mass, who are we to call her foolish? I would be very cautious about calling the Bride of Chist foolish.

Regarding the original question, I’ve always believed that one could never get sick while touching Christ, either from the Communion host, or from the Chalice. Christ is the ultimate healer. If anything, I would think He would heal us when entering us.

 

[FenianMan]

Michael Welter:

If the Bride of Christ makes a change in the laws or customs of the Mass, who are we to call her foolish? I would be very cautious about calling the Bride of Chist foolish.

Regarding the original question, I’ve always believed that one could never get sick while touching Christ, either from the Communion host, or from the Chalice. Christ is the ultimate healer. If anything, I would think He would heal us when entering us.

With respect, good brother, as I meant the honest critique, I never once called the Church foolish. What I did do was point out both the ecclesiastical body that has the authority to legislate my behavior at the liturgy and an exception to law that I believe to be foolish. “The Church” has not legislated, nor given an indult to communion in the hand. Individual members of the hierarchy have provided indults for it. Yet an indult is, by definition, an exception to particular or universal law. Indults have no special protection from error, and so can be applied foolishly, haphazardly, or stingily. Anyone that has read the history of the modern introduction of communion in the hand knows full well that the situation was sketchy at best, and though causality is difficult to prove, the connection to the general lack of reverence experienced in so many modern parishes is not a huge stretch. Obviously if “the Church” through the organ to which she has deputed the authority tells me that I must receive communion in my yet unconsecrated hands then I will oblige, but if Father Smith down the street tells me to do so because he’s afraid of getting the flu then I will simply ignore him, for such an order is no order at all.

 

[JohnCarroll]

KCT:

Our parish suspended use of the chalice during flu season last year. When I have a cold, I refrain from receiving on my tongue and receive on my hand. I don’t think the EM or priest should have to put his hand that near my mouth and my germs!! --KCT

As Br Rich pointed out for himself, I was a Chalice Bearer in the Episcopal Church prior to becoming Catholic. It was my job to drink what was left in the cup. As far as i know I never became sick from this.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

JohnCarroll:

As Br pointed out for himself, I was a Chalice Bearer in the Episcopal Church prior to becoming Catholic. It was my job to drink what was left in the cup. As far as i know I never became sick from this.

The incubation for the influenza is anywhere from 1 to 3 days, the bird flu (which is now starting to hit areas) is 3 days.

The cold virus has an incubation period of 2 to 4 days.

Other illnesses have varying incubation periods.

During this time you will seem healthy but are “comming down” with it and during this time you may or may not be contagious so this really makes the “I do not partake of the Chalice when I am sick” a moot point as you can be contagious before you have any symptoms.

And then there is the fact that while you may not get sick from someone, their illness may weaken your immune response so that next time you are exposed you will get sick.

And lastly, you seldom get sick right away from exposure.

 

[JohnCarroll]

ByzCath:

The incubation for the influenza is anywhere from 1 to 3 days, the bird flu (which is now starting to hit areas) is 3 days.

The cold virus has an incubation period of 2 to 4 days.

Other illnesses have varying incubation periods.

During this time you will seem healthy but are “comming down” with it and during this time you may or may not be contagious so this really makes the “I do not partake of the Chalice when I am sick” a moot point as you can be contagious before you have any symptoms.

And then there is the fact that while you may not get sick from someone, their illness may weaken your immune response so that next time you are exposed you will get sick.

And lastly, you seldom get sick right away from exposure.

AhhhhCHoo!! Oops

 

[pnewton]

I will refrain from the chalice even if my allergies are acting up, just to avoid an appearance of spreading a cold or flu. I would understand if we had to give communion under one species during a flu outbreak. It might also have the added benefit of reminding us that Christ is present body and blood in either species alone.

 

[rwoehmke]

FenianMan:

Obviously if “the Church” through the organ to which she has deputed the authority tells me that I must receive communion in my yet unconsecrated hands then I will oblige,…

I do not intend to mock you or say you shouldn’t be obedient to the proper authority but do you consider your tongue and mouth any more consecrated than your hands? Just curious, not sarcastic.

As for the original question, I would suppose that the flu virus takes up its abode in the accidents and not the substance of the Eucharest.

 

[Sola]

ByzCath:

We are dealing with people here. What if someone is sick and still partakes of the Chalice? What if someone is sick and still shakes hands? Does not the Church have a duty to protect people?

Well, I still think that the Lord protects the Eucharist so that sickness will not be spread, unless it is His will. I don’t mean that as a cop out, it’s just that I don’t have any other real answer, I guess. I mean, we can all pick up viruses from so many places (door knobs, office phones, standing in line or on the bus next to a sickie, etc).

ByzCath:

How does the Mass change when the priest either omits the Kiss of Peace (which is optional anyways) or makes the statement (as was done at the Church I attended this past weekend) that you many just say “Peace be with you” and not shake hands.

Fortunately at my church we do not have the Kiss of Peace, but we do offer one another the Sign of Peace - the handshake. It just changes by making things different for the sake of an external circumstance.

ByzCath:

How does the Mass change when the Chalice is not offered to the people? The fullness of Christ is found in the Bread, it is the Body and Blood, you do not need to recieve both.

I know that we don’t need to receive both, but in my short experience as a Catholic, both have always been offered, so to me it would seem…less full, I guess, to not be able to drink His blood.

These are only my opinions. I do understand people not wanting to get sick.