The Mass, extraordinary form or ordinary form

  • Thread starter Thread starter steph03
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

steph03

Guest
Just a quick comment;

I was raised with the Ordinary form of the mass. Which I really enjoy… Lately I have been trying to watch (youtube) the extraortinary form of the Mass. Well for those who enjoy TLM, my hat goes off to you… So far I can only get through about 20 minutes at a time watching it… Not understanding much, very very slower paste… I have little patience and find it slow and ineffective (personal impression only, I know it must be great for many) . After three sittings, I got through an hour…
 
Last edited:
steph03 said:
After three sittings, I got through an hour…
Click to expand...
I’m not a TLM fan, but, in all fairness, the TLM was not intended to be spectacle or public performance. For more than a thousand years, up to just after Trent, the chancel was closed off from the nave by a chancel screen, so the congregation could see very little of what was going on, and hear very little, as well. Kind of like a Byzantine liturgy with the iconostasis, if you are familiar with that.

Unlike the Byzantine liturgy, though, there was very little congregational participation until quite late in the game, and even then, these “dialogue masses” were not the norm.

Most congregants attended to private devotions during the Mass, like praying the Rosary or reading their prayer books.
 
Last edited:
ProVobis said:
And the point of this thread is what?
Click to expand...
well, first of all this is in no way a criticism of the EF. I know there are things way above my pay grade that I don’t get.

this is just my experience as someone raised on the OF trying to get through watching my first EF mass for the first time.
 
It took me time to get used to it too, but the effort was well worth it. Granted, I guess I was used to the initial confusion because as a Catholic convert, I went from Protestant Easter/Christmas service maybe yearly, to the Mass.
 
I’m a college football fan. I watch Ohio State every game on television. I get bored, get up to do stuff and lose focus. I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines when the #1 rated Buckeyes played the #2 rated Michigan Wolverines. For those that don’t know this is already the biggest rivalry in the country and to top it off they were the top rated teams in the country. The atmosphere with 110,000 fans was beyond explanation. I had goosebumps and was in complete awe most of the time.

The point of that long story is that being somewhere using all of your senses is completely different than watching something on television. I love the Latin Mass but I can’t watch it for more than a few minutes on YouTube.
 
Frankly, I would have a hard time watching any Mass on video for the length of the Mass unless it was something very special, such as the funeral of a President I admired, or unless I was confined to a hospital bed somewhere and the video was my only access to a Mass. One problem for me is that watching a Mass on TV does not count as “going to Mass” and there is no opportunity to receive Communion, so it usually is not worth my sitting through that when I could do another prayer activity that the Church seems to encourage more (like reading scripture, I can get an indulgence for that) or I could just go to Mass in person.

Having said that, if you don’t like the TLM then you don’t like it. I personally like the TLM from time to time. I studied 4 years of Latin in school and had older parents and many older relatives who had grown up with the TLM and were well into middle age when the Mass was changed. It connects me to them and gives me an opportunity to use my Latin skills (what little I have). I generally will pray my Rosary during the TLM because that was a traditional thing to do and you don’t get the fish eye there if you do it. I avoid praying my Rosary during OF because it’s frowned upon; I will only do it in an emergency or if I happen to have gone into a church specifically to say the Rosary there (because I’ve already been to Mass that day for example) and a Mass is in progress.

I am not the kind of person who is going to roll out of bed at 7 am to go to a TLM low Mass daily, unless of course it’s happening next door so super convenient, or there is no other Mass available. The OF for me is a much more practical and available quick daily Mass.
 
Last edited:
Pontifical High Mass at the throne. 3 hours. I dare you. I double dog dare you!


But seriously, if you were to watch this all the way through, you would learn so much about both the EF and OF Mass. There is such great commentary!
 
translaticius said:
I’m a college football fan. I watch Ohio State every game on television. I get bored, get up to do stuff and lose focus. I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines when the #1 rated Buckeyes played the #2 rated Michigan Wolverines. For those that don’t know this is already the biggest rivalry in the country and to top it off they were the top rated teams in the country. The atmosphere with 110,000 fans was beyond explanation. I had goosebumps and was in complete awe most of the time.
Click to expand...
I know this is off topic and I apologize in advance…
What year was this? I went to OSU and the games alternated between being played in Ohio and Michigan. So it was either 1971 or 1972 that I watched OSU kick the pants off of Michigan and the party on High Street lasted all night long. Signs saying Bo Bites Bucks Butts were everywhere. (Bo Schembeckler was Michigan’s coach. Ours was Woody!) It was a fantastic game…ahhh, memories!

Back to your regularly scheduled program…
 
Were you watching a High Mass or a Low Mass in the EF? I found I had better appreciation, understanding, and simply knew what was going on more in the High Mass after attending several Low Masses. I too was raised in the OF, but kept being drawn into the mystery and beauty of the EF. For me it really engaged the intellectual side of my faith with its language, symbolism, and ancient traditions. I would recommend the book Nothing Superfluous by Father James Jackson if you really wanted to break down what is going on in the EF and why it’s being done.
 
You’ve got to go to a TLM and experience it in IRL! YouTube does it no justice. That’s like looking at food on the internet and wondering why you can’t taste it.

As far as understanding why things are happening, they’re all deeply rooted in tradition and Latin of course and it takes time to study and understand the history, but the mass itself transcends the need for complete understanding. Go and experience!
 
steph03 said:
I have little patience and find it slow and ineffective (personal impression only, I know it must be great for many) . After three sittings, I got through an hour…
Click to expand...
It might help some if you are able to do a little reading about the TLM if and when you ever decide to attend one in person.

You might find this small booklet by Michael Davies to be helpful, it’s called A Short History of The Roman Mass.

Or if you want something a little more in depth try The Latin Mass Explained

Both of these books have great info regarding the TLM and they could probably help you understand it better and make it more meaningful for you.
 
I am just going to make a guess… I think you would have a different experience if you were there in person. My experiences with it have all been very powerful. I regularly attend an OF Mass but when I get the chance I attend an FSSP Parish. It can be a very wonderful and powerful experience!

If you get a chance you should check one out in person rather than on YouTube.
 
I normally attend the Latin mass on Sundays but if I were to watch Mass on TV, I would prefer the OF, like a papal Mass or the one on EWTN. This is because the Latin Mass by nature is very meditative, so you have to actively participate mentally by following along with the prayers, meditating on the Eucharist during consecration, etc, in order to enjoy it. If you are just watching it on TV, there isn’t as much “happening” (that you can see and hear) to keep you engaged.

If you watch it again, I would recommend at least following along in a Missal (you can get iMass app for like $3), so you know what’s going on.
 
steph03 said:
Just a quick comment;

I was raised with the Ordinary form of the mass. Which I really enjoy… Lately I have been trying to watch (youtube) the extraortinary form of the Mass. Well for those who enjoy TLM, my hat goes off to you… So far I can only get through about 20 minutes at a time watching it… Not understanding much, very very slower paste… I have little patience and find it slow and ineffective (personal impression only, I know it must be great for many) . After three sittings, I got through an hour…
Click to expand...
It takes a handful of times before getting familiar with it.

I’ve actually heard FSSP priests say their first experiences with the Latin Mass were confusing.

But after 5-10 times (esp when you figure out how to follow with a missal) it actually starts becoming really powerful.

God Bless
 
GordonP said:
Unlike the Byzantine liturgy, though, there was very little congregational participation until quite late in the game, and even then, these “dialogue masses” were not the norm.
Click to expand...
Liturgists. don’t think that that is the case, but rather that the people had a much larger part in the Roman liturgy. Unfortunately, there is very little record of the early liturgies, I presume due to the old practice of destroying the old books when new ones were promulgated.

Instead, over time, the priest usurped more and more, as the people became docile. Attempts at reform/restoration no longer could determine accurately which were which, and left everything with the priest (fear of lost of efficaciousness if they were wrong?).

What became codified as the norm, the low Mass, at/ater Trent came from a monastic liturgical abuse, in which priests were “knocking off” masses as fast as possible for the donations for saying them. In such Masses, the priest took every part he could for speed and “efficiency”.

Some of the “innovations” in the OF. are actually restorations of pre-tridentine. practice, which were not known at the time of Trent.

hawk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top