The Mass is so Utilitarian at My Parish :(

[ElToro]

I have read about abuses on these forums for a long time. Now I want to ask about utilitarian Masses. It seems like the Masses at my parish (and most parishes around here) are devoid of all solemnity and it’s sort of heartbreaking. It’s as if people come to Mass at my parish simply to get their tickets punched every Sunday. As if it’s a government and not a Church function.

After going to Sunday Mass I returned an hour later at 10:00 AM (to our most popular Mass) and sat up in the choir loft (by myself) just to watch. Though there were realively few inside of the church, the din from the chatterers was remarkable. The number of people who entered the church by walking across the sanctuary was repulsive. Even worse than the Mass I normally attend. I’m not big on clothing police but the number of people wearing shorts (it’s still cool here) amazed me. The Mass began on time (we are good about that) but the church was only about 1/4 full.

About a half dozen cell phones went off during the Mass. That’s very verboten at the earlier Mass that I attend. 2-3 years ago you NEVER heard one ring. Now we hear one every now and then. At this 10:00 Mass it has become part of the atmosphere it seems.

For the first 15 minutes of the Mass (up to about the Gospel) people slowly entered the church filling it to perhaps 1/2 its capacity. The Mass seemed to be celebrated well enough but there was the constant feeling put forth by the priest (who is the pastor) that he was in some sort of grand hurry even though the next Mass is not until 12:30.

Of those that received communion, I would guess that 1/3 left Mass right after receiving. I knew some did but I just watched the doors this time and it blew me away. Communion was distributed in a frenetic pace by the priest and a large number of lay ministers (probably the only actual abuse of the Mass.)

After Mass I went to shake the celebrant’s hand but he was no where to be found. While he typically celebrates the Mass is a hurried manner (for reasons I do not know) I figured his absense might mean he really had something to take care of hence his “burn and churn” style. Five minutes later I was able to shake his hand however in the parish hall while on the prowl for doughnuts and coffee.

It just seems like the Mass is so stripped down these days. So utilitarian. Is it like this in your parish? Why do you think it has become this way?

P.S. No, I am not interested in attending an EF Mass. I love the OF Mass. I am just saddened that it is celebrated in such a utilitarian manner around here.

 

[damooster]

Charity.

While I agree that some of the things you said are disheartening, you and I can never really know what’s in people’s hearts. Should people have more respect for the Mass by dressing better and turning off their cell phones? Absolutely. Should the priest take his time with the Mass? Absolutely.

But we don’t know the story behind every person and it’s unfair to lump people into the “they left after Communion” crowd. Perhaps the priest has a legitimate excuse for not being available to shake hands after Mass. Maybe the people trampling through the Sanctuary don’t know any better because everyone else does it?

My point is, we can never know.

The best thing you and I can do is pray for these people. Pray that the Mass and reverence become foremost in their hearts.

Lastly, I think it’s kind of cruel to perch yourself in the choir loft just to watch people. I know you’re frustrated, but this will do you know good. You’ll build resentment to your fellow parishioners. Pray for them!

 

[ElToro]

Charity.

While I agree that some of the things you said are disheartening, you and I can never really know what’s in people’s hearts. Should people have more respect for the Mass by dressing better and turning off their cell phones? Absolutely. Should the priest take his time with the Mass? Absolutely.

But we don’t know the story behind every person and it’s unfair to lump people into the “they left after Communion” crowd. Perhaps the priest has a legitimate excuse for not being available to shake hands after Mass. Maybe the people trampling through the Sanctuary don’t know any better because everyone else does it?

My point is, we can never know.

The best thing you and I can do is pray for these people. Pray that the Mass and reverence become foremost in their hearts.

Lastly, I think it’s kind of cruel to perch yourself in the choir loft just to watch people. I know you’re frustrated, but this will do you know good. You’ll build resentment to your fellow parishioners. Pray for them!

There will always be excuses… I do wonder some times if these same excuses existed 50 or so years ago?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not angry or upset. I am just stunned at how borrish people act. Perhaps a bit sad as well. Aside from anything else (what the Church or the pastor may have done or not done, catechesis received or not received) I have to wonder just how these people were raised? Most of the stuff I observed goes against what my folks called “common courtesy.” I think maybe that’s a big part of it. Lack (or poor) of formation as humans and along with apathy to solve problems.

Your judgement of me being “cruel” is horribly misplaced. I didn’t “perch” myself anywhere. No one could see me, not that it would have mattered. I was just another person attending Mass. But your judgement is neither here nor there. It doesn’t make a difference except for one thing: excuses and judgements keep us from understanding what has changed and it keeps us from understanding how to best reverse these terrible changes. That’s the true cruelty (to the faith) in my opinion. It’s to the point where people are even afraid to bring up matter like arriving late or leaving early because they will be judged before given the same excuses.

PS: There are signs in the sacristy asking people to not use the sanctuary as a pass-through. They have been in place for years. It shouldn’t matter though – anyone with a decent up-bringing would NEVER use the sanctuary as a pass-through. I don’t really care that my pastor did not greet people as they left the church, although he was immediately available in the church hall. What do find terribly sad is the anxious and frenetic culture when it comes to the celerbation of the Mass at my parish.

 

[damooster]

Your judgement of me being “cruel” is horribly misplaced. I didn’t “perch” myself anywhere.

I’m just going by what you said in your original post…

After going to Sunday Mass I returned an hour later at 10:00 AM (to our most popular Mass) and sat up in the choir loft (by myself) just to watch.

Look, I’m just as frustrated as you. I see it everywhere too. I wasn’t trying to make excuses for bad behavior. But there are some circumstances that we don’t know about.

There’s a huge problem in your parish just as there is a lot of places. All I was trying to suggest was that you take it to prayer. That’s what I do when I find myself getting frustrated with these types of things.

 

[Stylites]

Glad to hear that your Mass is well-attended, and that people receive the Lord in Word and Sacrament. If there are some who in your judgment are not well-disposed then you can pray for them and maybe present a good example to them, knowing that your joy is in no way dependent on anyone else’s behavior or interior disposition.

 

[amerrychase]

…knowing that your joy is in no way dependent on anyone else’s behavior or interior disposition.

Isn’t it? I get a little sad sometimes, knowing that a few people are probably receiving when they aren’t properly disposed.

 

[Stylites]

Isn’t it? I get a little sad sometimes, knowing that a few people are probably receiving when they aren’t properly disposed.

I’m unclear what “knowing probably” actually means in terms of concrete knowledge, and whether improper disposition relates to being in a state of mortal sin or just having an appearance of distraction or fashion issues. Certainly we are a people of hope, and it does a soul no good to fret over things beyond her control.

 

[karow]

Isn’t it? I get a little sad sometimes, knowing that a few people are probably receiving when they aren’t properly disposed.

But we can’t see into peoples’ souls, nor are we their confessors, so it does no good to fret over such matters.

 

[TimothyH]

I clicked into the thread to read about a sad utilitarian Mass but what I read was not about the Mass, it was about people at the Mass.

As to those people, I deserve eternal punishment in Hell for the way I treat Jesus. The rocks in the back yard don’t sin, but I do. Yet God loves me more than the rocks and doesn’t call the rocks to receive him and be joined to his Body. All those people who we condemn for leaving early, not being reverent, and who we presume to know their worthyness to recieve, they are fellow memebers of Christ’s body along with me. They are not “Those” people… they are members of the same body as you and I. They are Christ. Even so, not one of them is worthy to receive the Bread of Angels, yet there we all are, standing in line, no more than beggars, with the rocks and the trees having more merit than all of us put together.

Who am I, as a beggar, to complain about the other people present. Or the seats. Or the music. Or the priest who gave up having a family and dedicated his whole life so that Christ could be made present for me.

If people had proper contrition for their own sins, they wouldn’t be looking around out of curiosity at everyone else or presuming to know the worthyness of everyone else. They would instead be busy wiping the tears out of their eyes for the sins they commit against Jesus. They would be busy wiping the tears of joy out of their eyes for being loved enough by Him that himself to come to use under the appearance of bread and wine and allows us to chew and swallow him.

-Tim-

 

[amerrychase]

But we can’t see into peoples’ souls, nor are we their confessors, so it does no good to fret over such matters.

I’m neither judging nor fretting, just aware. A person in my immediate family (a non-Catholic) receives at Mass, and it’s not that much of a stretch to think that in the other 275 there is a person or two that is distracted, or isn’t Catholic, or hasn’t made it to confession, or had a bit of toast on the way in and so isn’t receiving the fullness of grace in our Gift. Being aware of this likely situation just makes me pray harder, anyway.

 

[Stylites]

Being aware of this likely situation just makes me pray harder, anyway.

That’s great to hear, amerrychase.

 

[ElToro]

I’m just going by what you said in your original post…

That was offensive.

Look, I’m just as frustrated as you. I see it everywhere too. I wasn’t trying to make excuses for bad behavior. But there are some circumstances that we don’t know about.

There’s a huge problem in your parish just as there is a lot of places. All I was trying to suggest was that you take it to prayer. That’s what I do when I find myself getting frustrated with these types of things.

First, we should never cease praying that these sorts of things cease. I hope no one suggests that practical action can only be taken at the absense of prayer. That’s just not true.

The more I thought about this, the more offensive I find your “charity” response. These sorts of problems can be discussed in a charitable manner without becoming apathetic about them. For many years, for a great many reasons quite a few people have begun to act like boors inside of Catholic churches. It would be to the Church’s benefit to understand what has transpired over the years and to formulate tactful manners in which to deal with the matter.

 

[ElToro]

Glad to hear that your Mass is well-attended, and that people receive the Lord in Word and Sacrament. If there are some who in your judgment are not well-disposed then you can pray for them and maybe present a good example to them, knowing that your joy is in no way dependent on anyone else’s behavior or interior disposition.

It’s not really. Mass attendance peaked in the 1960’s around here. I personally believe a big part of not attending Sunday Mass is what I observed. On Christmas and Easter, our attended is 6-7x what it normally is.

My “joy” is impacted when I see one of Jesus’ churches and one of His Masses treated in this manner.

In addition to prayer and setting an example there needs to be more practical measures taken.

 

[ElToro]

I’m sorry this thread got de-railed.

I really would like to know why Catholic churches and Masses are so often treated with contempt by Catholics.

I would also like to know why Masses have become so utilitarian, so stripped-down, so darned time conscious? The first Sunday Mass in May of this year will forever stick in my memory. It seemed like our pastor was BURNING through the Mass. Fast/clipped homily. Abreviated prayers for the faithful. “We finished” in 43 minutes. Even to visitors it felt odd.

I wish I was a socialogist so I could better understand the reasons for this terrible decline.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m sorry this thread got de-railed.

I really would like to know why Catholic churches and Masses are so often treated with contempt by Catholics.

I would also like to know why Masses have become so utilitarian, so stripped-down, so darned time conscious? The first Sunday Mass in May of this year will forever stick in my memory. It seemed like our pastor was BURNING through the Mass. Fast/clipped homily. Abreviated prayers for the faithful. “We finished” in 43 minutes. Even to visitors it felt odd.

I wish I was a socialogist so I could better understand the reasons for this terrible decline.

I’m not sure you need a sociologist so much as to ask your own particular priest about it. Mass at my church usually runs about an hour ten, with a leisurely pace, a motet after communion, and everything else. P.S., 43 minutes isn’t fast at all. Try 15-20 minutes if you want to know what the “speed Mass” used to be like in the old days.

 

[ElToro]

I’m not sure you need a sociologist so much as to ask your own particular priest about it. Mass at my church usually runs about an hour ten, with a leisurely pace, a motet after communion, and everything else. P.S., 43 minutes isn’t fast at all. Try 15-20 minutes if you want to know what the “speed Mass” used to be like in the old days.

I have asked my pastor. He responds as if he is completely unaware of what’s going on. He wants NO part of parish reform.

I have also asked our former pastor (he was our pastor until 1979) about it. He has NO interest in even broaching the subject even in the most tactful of ways, except for people leaving Mass early. He has preached eloquently, tactfully and very directly about the problem within the last year during his homilies. He asked everyone to please stop leaving early unless they truly faced exigent circumstances. They all continue to leave.

Being a local I asked a few friends I know from outside of church why they leve right after communion. They all say “because it’s allowed.” I have repied that it’s not allowed and asked them even if it was, why would they leave early? Each just sorta shrugs their shoulders and gives the deer-in-the-headlights stare.

It would be fascintating to really understand all the reasons behind this. Part of this of course is the coarsening of society in general. People act more boorish than ever. Next of course are continually lowered and non-existant expectations. Apathy and cowardice also play a part in many cases I would think. But there is even more to it than that, a lot more, hence this thread.

 

[laszlo]

Since I apparently will loose the place where I felt home in the church, I would thank to God to find the type of Mass what you described. Unfortunately in our Vicariate the human performance is the norm.

The probable reason for the described Mass that the priests inner time is faster than yours.

In the traditional times (before the council when there was TLM only) the weekday masses were finished within 30 minutes and the Sunday mass within 50 minutes.

We are imperfect, limited beings and we had to accept that.

 

[Stylites]

I have asked my pastor. He responds as if he is completely unaware of what’s going on. He wants NO part of parish reform.

I have also asked our former pastor (he was our pastor until 1979) about it. He has NO interest in even broaching the subject even in the most tactful of ways, except for people leaving Mass early. He has preached eloquently, tactfully and very directly about the problem within the last year during his homilies. He asked everyone to please stop leaving early unless they truly faced exigent circumstances. They all continue to leave.

Sounds like you’ve done your due diligence in talking with the priests, past and present. You say you are praying about it, which is good. I would seriously meditate upon what TimothyH wrote, as he eloquently placed our chagrin at others’ supposed faults in perspective, even if that perspective is sometimes obscured by the beams in our eyes.

 

[Stylites]

I have also asked our former pastor (he was our pastor until 1979) about it. He has NO interest in even broaching the subject even in the most tactful of ways, except for people leaving Mass early. He has preached eloquently, tactfully and very directly about the problem within the last year during his homilies. He asked everyone to please stop leaving early unless they truly faced exigent circumstances. They all continue to leave.

In all fairness to the faithful who continue to leave early, the former pastor hasn’t preached eloquently there since 1979.

 

[laszlo]

Being a local I asked a few friends I know from outside of church why they leve right after communion. They all say “because it’s allowed.” I have repied that it’s not allowed and asked them even if it was, why would they leave early? Each just sorta shrugs their shoulders and gives the deer-in-the-headlights stare.

The traditional teaching was, and many traditionalist confess loudly even now, that the Mass is ONLY the bloodless sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is completed by the Offertory, Consecration and Communion of the priest. Clear consequence that the validity of the Sunday and Holy day obligation requires presence only from he Offertory to the Communion of the priest.

This view changed only by the XXI Ecumenical council for better. We believe that the Mass is gathering, learning, offering in our part; and sacrifice, meal and mission from Jesus Christ. This theology and only this theology requires the presence from the beginning to the end. This is the positive result of the Spirit of Vatican II.

We are limited imperfect human being, the ideas are not always realized.