The Mass Isn't Entertainment, Says Cardinal Arinze

[fix]

Orionthehunter:

It is so typically American I guess to say “This is what I think so everyone else should agree with me.”

The problem is interpretation should intend those doing it think with the mind of the Church. Often, in the USA and elsewhere, that is not the case. If it were the case we would not have the the future pope talking about reforming the reform.

We have small issues and big issues. IMO, one reason smaller issues generate so much heat is because many understand the big issues go uncorrected. When so many feel those in charge are not faithful and perhaps allowing error to go unchecked, then every smaller issue is seen as one more example of unfaithfulness.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Cardinal Arinze gets my benefit of the doubt for now. He is tackling big issues here, and it is very difficult to get people to change their bad habits. I’m hoping that he tackles his position with a firm hand, and works to restore reverence and sacredness the Holy Mass that is so lacking today.

 

[Orionthehunter]

paramedicgirl:

Cardinal Arinze gets my benefit of the doubt for now. He is tackling big issues here, and it is very difficult to get people to change their bad habits. I’m hoping that he tackles his position with a firm hand, and works to restore reverence and sacredness the Holy Mass that is so lacking today.

And if he doesn’t do as you wish? He will lose your support?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Orionthehunter:

And if he doesn’t do as you wish? He will lose your support?

Orionthehunter, are you following me around? My post was in response to oat sodas post - see below -
oat soda:

some of what he says is good, some is too vauge. it seems he is playing both sides like a politician but in the end says very little. for instance, he says that gregorian chant should be heard but then says it is up to the bishops conference. that leaves a lot of room for interpretation. what we need are more specific guidelines that say how much and how often. again, what exactly isn’t suitable. who decides? i guess the bishops conference. so he ends up not saying anything. ok, so why not just say priests should face the altar. but wait, that would be too servere. again, he says nothing in the end other than generalities. ok so you are saying latin is bad? certainly the pre-VII mass had problems, but the problem wasn’t with latin, it was that people either didn’t take the time to learn the parts of the mass in latin that pertains to them, or the priests and bishops never educated the faithful. sacrosanctum concilium says very clearly that latin is to be preserved in the latin rite. but wait, it also says a suitable part of the mass may be alloted to the mother tounge to be determined by the bishop conferences. once again, more ambiguity.

Once again, my words are being twisted to make me look bad.

 

[Confiteor]

fix:

Good points. It is very political. Too bad.

Yes, I agree…On the face on it, his statement seems “balanced and nuanced” (sound familiar?) but the little loopholes for things like guitar music and a whole slew of other things that are not supposed to have pride of place in the Mass get stretched as wide as the Grand Canyon and the “generous” compliance with offering the TLM often equates to nil as in my diocese.

 

[SummaTheo]

JKirkLVNV:

I enjoyed reading what the Cardinal had to say, esp. this bit:

***"Contrary to what many think, he said, “even when there was the Tridentine Mass there were abuses. Many Catholics did not know, because they did not know Latin! So when the priest garbled the words, they were not aware of this.”

---

As opposed to some Priests today who like to put on a show when saying the Eucharist Prayer.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

SummaTheo:

As opposed to some Priests today who like to put on a show when saying the Eucharist Prayer.

Quite right. I’m just glad the Cardinal put to rest the notion so often asserted in these forums that the TLM was “abuse-free,” “of its nature incapable of abuse,” etc.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

MrS:

You can do better than that… The good Cardinal is refering to potential abuse by the priest.

The NO abuses/norms are, in the vast majority, abuses started by the uninstructed laity, and then eventually “allowed” by bishops who may well value the collection basket, more than the liturgy.

No, actually, I’ve made that point over and over. I’ve quoted at least one historical account of abuse of the Mass in Latin, talked about the memories of older Catholics regarding the TLM, etc. It’s not something that’s potential, it’s something that’s HAPPENED. I’m not at home and I don’t have the texts in front of me, but if you click on me, then my posts, then go back far enough, you can find it. I’m not alledging that it happened a lot (though the word “rushed” crops up a great deal!), but to say that it CAN’T happen, or WON’T happen, or NEVER DID happen is spurious, just as it is to say that it the Pauline Rite LENDS itself to abuse.

 

[Orionthehunter]

paramedicgirl:

Orionthehunter, are you following me around? My post was in response to oat sodas post - see below -

Once again, my words are being twisted to make me look bad.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just reacting to the following post of yours:

Cardinal Arinze gets my benefit of the doubt for now.

I’m curious and don’t want to misrepresent what you intended to say. Why did you put in the qualifier “for now” if there wasn’t the possibility that he might not have your support in the future?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Orionthehunter:

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just reacting to the following post of yours:

I’m curious and don’t want to misrepresent what you intended to say. Why did you put in the qualifier “for now” if there wasn’t the possibility that he might not have your support in the future?

He isn’t the Pope. Most cardinals have an opinion, to hear tell, there are some Cardinals who don’t think the SSPX aren’t in schism. It doesn’t matter what they THINK so much as it matters what the Pope SAYS (orders or promulgates for the Church). I happen to agree with Cardinal Arinze, but that isn’t to say that he entirely speaks for the Church or speaks the mind of the Church or that what he says will become the law of the Church.

 

[Orionthehunter]

JKirkLVNV:

He isn’t the Pope. Most cardinals have an opinion, to hear tell, there are some Cardinals who don’t think the SSPX aren’t in schism. It doesn’t matter what they THINK so much as it matters what the Pope SAYS (orders or promulgates for the Church). I happen to agree with Cardinal Arinze, but that isn’t to say that he entirely speaks for the Church or speaks the mind of the Church or that what he says will become the law of the Church.

He is the Prefect of the Congregation of the Divine Liturgy (I think this is the right name) so his views are something that are to be considered w/ great seriousness. Additionally, there is authority granted to this person in this office such that without a contradictory edict or instruction from the Pope they are expected to be heeded.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Orionthehunter:

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just reacting to the following post of yours:

I’m curious and don’t want to misrepresent what you intended to say. Why did you put in the qualifier “for now” if there wasn’t the possibility that he might not have your support in the future?

I’m getting the feeling that I need to run my words by a lawyer before I post them! When someone else suggested that he was ambiguous in his words, I was trying to defend him from the point of view that I don’t know him yet, and this is my first exposure to him, but so far I like what I hear. That’s all. Nothing more. Nothing less. Please do not read any more into this than that.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Orionthehunter:

He is the Prefect of the Congregation of the Divine Liturgy (I think this is the right name) so his views are something that are to be considered w/ great seriousness. Additionally, there is authority granted to this person in this office such that without a contradictory edict or instruction from the Pope they are expected to be heeded.

And so I do take them seriously.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Orionthehunter:

He is the Prefect of the Congregation of the Divine Liturgy (I think this is the right name) so his views are something that are to be considered w/ great seriousness. Additionally, there is authority granted to this person in this office such that without a contradictory edict or instruction from the Pope they are expected to be heeded.

It’s actually called the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (isn’t that a mouthful). This is frequently abbreviated as CDW – Congregation for Divine Worship.

Deacon Ed