The Mass - worship service or community gathering?

[HelenRose]

Having posted the original question and reading the answers I am beginning to think that perhaps a follow-up question would be of some use.

We attend church for different reasons, as is evident from the wonderful responses here.

Is the Mass supposed to be a form of worship of God by a set of prayers and rituals, or is it more of a communal meal/gathering? (What comes to mind here is the movie Bebette’s Feast.)

What are we “supposed” to be attending each Sunday morning?

I think I would say that Mass is more of a worship service rather than a community service. I have been to many Protestant church services and they are more like community gatherings. I have often compared the two in this manner: The good Protestant service is like going up into the mountains on a picnic with friends and relatives. There is much joyful praising of God and love. It can be a wonderful social event. The Mass, for me, is like stepping away from the party and being alone beneath the tall pines and listening to God’s voice in the wind as it blows through the trees.

We need fellowship. I would love to see “praise services” in the Church - especially for the youth - separate from Mass. Mass is the partaking of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Social gatherings are important and should be encouraged and promoted but not during Mass.

It should not be a matter of either/or but both/and. We need the Eucharist to be what it is. We also need to get together and praise God in praise and fellowship. They are different and both can be part of the Church. But at different times.

 

[zab]

The first/former. We haven’t been judged yet.

The question is , do you reject Church teaching? Or do you just not understand it?
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm
*946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.

947 "Since all the faithful form one body, the good of each is communicated to the others. . . . We must therefore believe that there exists a communion of goods in the Church. But the most important member is Christ, since he is the head. . . . Therefore, the riches of Christ are communicated to all the members, through the sacraments."480 "As this Church is governed by one and the same Spirit, all the goods she has received necessarily become a common fund."481

948 The term “communion of saints” therefore has two closely linked meanings: communion in holy things (sancta)" and “among holy persons (sancti).”
*

 

[Ontheway]

I think I would say that Mass is more of a worship service rather than a community service. I have been to many Protestant church services and they are more like community gatherings. I have often compared the two in this manner: The good Protestant service is like going up into the mountains on a picnic with friends and relatives. There is much joyful praising of God and love. It can be a wonderful social event. The Mass, for me, is like stepping away from the party and being alone beneath the tall pines and listening to God’s voice in the wind as it blows through the trees.

We need fellowship. I would love to see “praise services” in the Church - especially for the youth - separate from Mass. Mass is the partaking of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Social gatherings are important and should be encouraged and promoted but not during Mass.

It should not be a matter of either/or but both/and. We need the Eucharist to be what it is. We also need to get together and praise God in praise and fellowship. They are different and both can be part of the Church. But at different times.

This has always been my way of thinking about the Mass, but there are diverse opinions on this matter, it seems.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

For the record, I’m an introvert. Strongly an introvert. An ISTJ, if you’re familiar with Myers-Briggs.

… I once read a protestant blog about how to build community in a church, and they listed “parking lot greeters” as “essential”. If I went to a church with parking lot greeters, I wouldn’t get out of the car. Seriously, I would just keep driving. It would feel so incredibly invasive to have to speak to a stranger before I could even get my bearings in a new place. It feels like an assault. When I arrive at my own parish, with just 20 families, all well-known to me, I’ve been known to sit in my car until other people have gone in, so that I don’t have to greet them immediately. (I do eventually greet them, as we have a community meal after the liturgy and I always stay. I just need time to warm up.) … We need real community, not this fake, forced community that some call community.

I used to go to a church where that awful man called George made you run the gauntlet to get in - there wasn’t enough room to get past him and just wave at him - he would clasp my hand in his two and then stroke it before letting go - I give him the biggest blame for me backsliding - INTP!

(The church authorities told me loads of people had complained about him and they couldn’t get him to stop )

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

…

I recall an Easter Vigil service where at one point (2am?) everyone left the church to go down to the parish hall to have coffee and pastries, while the priest continued to deliver his sermon to an empty church.

Reminds me of an Anglican church where they have a coffee and cake break half way through the service!

 

[babochka]

I used to go to a church where that awful man called George made you run the gauntlet to get in - there wasn’t enough room to get past him and just wave at him - he would clasp my hand in his two and then stroke it before letting go - I give him the biggest blame for me backsliding - INTP!

(The church authorities told me loads of people had complained about him and they couldn’t get him to stop )

There’s always one, isn’t there! We introverts sometimes just have to learn to be tolerant and kind. After all, they put up with our “snobbishness” all the time!

 

[Redd_Jackal]

I’ve composed a response in musical form. (Hopefully David Haas won’t copy it as his own.)

(Points at church) Ist das nicht ein Worship Space?
Ja! Das ist ein Worship Space!
(Points at Parish Center) Ist das nicht ein Meeting Place?
Ja! Das ist ein Meeting Place!

Meeting Place!
Worship Space!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
Schnitzelbank!

 

[zab]

I’ve composed a response in musical form. (Hopefully David Haas won’t copy it as his own.)

(Points at church) Ist das nicht ein Worship Space?
Ja! Das ist ein Worship Space!
(Points at Parish Center) Ist das nicht ein Meeting Place?
Ja! Das ist ein Meeting Place!

Meeting Place!
Worship Space!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
Schnitzelbank!

I never learned to speak the language of my ancestors but you’re making me hungry. Is there a weiner in that Schnitzelbank?

 

[otjm]

It’s called contemplative prayer and non-verbal communcation. I disagree strongly with your no obvious connection between the priest’s prayers and the people’s prayers. It seems more education is needed in this area. And perhaps the DL as well.

You keep emphasizing contemplative prayer and non verbal communication.

Perhaps you did not have a missal when you were young; but those of us who did. did not spend our time day dreaming; we followed along with the priest in English in our missal while he prayed the liturgy in Latin.

Some adults, who have training in contemplative prayer, can stay in that mode. Those who are not trained, and those who are but have other issues, such as ADHD, cannot maintain focus.

There is no question that before the missals were produced and allowed (and I seem to recall some discussion in the past where missals were not considered acceptable - but that is another issue), people showed up for Mass; and for any number of centuries, many if not most people neither spoke nor read Latin. They “fulfilled their obligation”, and some undoubtedly were more focused on the Mass and what was happening, and others “fulfilled their obligation” and said the rosary, or a novena, or filled the pew…

Romanticizing the EF as a time for the laity to engage in contemplative prayer and non verbal communication sells the EF short. It is a time to be joining with the priest in the celebration of the Mass, and that is a bit more than just “Yeah, God - what(ever) the priest just said…!”

 

[otjm]

For the record, I’m an introvert. Strongly an introvert. An ISTJ, if you’re familiar with Myers-Briggs.

Keep in mind that I don’t regularly attend the EF or the OF. Of the two, I prefer the OF, but I don’t go in for all the “extras”. Just give me the Mass.

I am terribly uncomfortable holding hands with strangers during the Our Father. God forbid they should try to hug me during the sign of peace! I sometimes attend Mass at one of those churches where they “turn and greet each other” before Mass. I purposely arrive late and I hate to be late. But I’d rather be late than have to have a conversation with a stranger before Mass. I sometimes even dread extended family gatherings because they are exhausting, even though I love my family very much.
I once read a protestant blog about how to build community in a church, and they listed “parking lot greeters” as “essential”. If I went to a church with parking lot greeters, I wouldn’t get out of the car. Seriously, I would just keep driving. It would feel so incredibly invasive to have to speak to a stranger before I could even get my bearings in a new place. It feels like an assault. When I arrive at my own parish, with just 20 families, all well-known to me, I’ve been known to sit in my car until other people have gone in, so that I don’t have to greet them immediately. (I do eventually greet them, as we have a community meal after the liturgy and I always stay. I just need time to warm up.) Before I found a regular confessor and built a relationship with him, Confession was torturous. I had literally bare my soul to a stranger. Yikes!

My introvert children and I confuse my extroverted husband daily. I get it. Really.

I still stand by the idea that Mass is communal by its very nature, but I don’t mean the sort of “forced” community, where you’re greeted at the door, asked to hold hands, hug people during the sign of peace, etc. Even I, as introverted as I am, understand that we need each other as human beings. We are born into a community, a family. We know that deprived of any sort of community, human beings suffer serious psychological damage. God himself is a Community. We are part of the communion of saints. Baptism, in addition to its effects on original sin, makes us part of a community of Christians. We cannot escape this fact of our nature. We need real community, not this fake, forced community that some call community.

Very interesting post, and very well said.

 

[otjm]

Having posted the original question and reading the answers I am beginning to think that perhaps a follow-up question would be of some use.

We attend church for different reasons, as is evident from the wonderful responses here.

Is the Mass supposed to be a form of worship of God by a set of prayers and rituals, or is it more of a communal meal/gathering? (What comes to mind here is the movie Bebette’s Feast.)

What are we “supposed” to be attending each Sunday morning?

It is not either/or; it is both/and.

Christ said, at the institution of the Eucharist “Take and eat…” and from Mark, concerning the Cup “Then he took a cup… he gave it to them, and all drank from it…”.

And Yes, I am well aware of the rule that one only has to receive once per year, but taking that to the extreme is Jansenism. There is clearly a communal meal aspect, as well as sacrifice and the anamnesis of Calvary, as well as being done wioth set prayers and rituals.

What we are supposed to attend on Sunday is Mass. Which is both/and…

 

[otjm]

I never learned to speak the language of my ancestors but you’re making me hungry. Is there a weiner in that Schnitzelbank?

:extrahappy: It has been a while since I laughed out loud at a post, but this one did it!

 

[Usige]

I’ve composed a response in musical form. (Hopefully David Haas won’t copy it as his own.)

(Points at church) Ist das nicht ein Worship Space?
Ja! Das ist ein Worship Space!
(Points at Parish Center) Ist das nicht ein Meeting Place?
Ja! Das ist ein Meeting Place!

Meeting Place!
Worship Space!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
O Du Schoene!
Schnitzelbank!

Oh, that made me laugh (I think the message will be lost on many). Even though my great grand parents were German, my first introduction to this song was on the Animaniacs.

And no worries that David Haas will steal it. It is too traditional and has some particle religious use.

 

[Usige]

I never learned to speak the language of my ancestors but you’re making me hungry. Is there a weiner in that Schnitzelbank?

Nope, just the scraps.

(hint: look at what the word Schnitzel means in German rather than American cooking)

 

[ProVobis]

There’s always one, isn’t there! We introverts sometimes just have to learn to be tolerant and kind. After all, they put up with our “snobbishness” all the time!

Don’t know about that. Extroverts could use some learning there too, and not presume everyone enjoys being part of some herd mentality.

 

[pnewton]

It absolutely HAS TO be BOTH.

The worship of God is to not starve the widows and orphans (it repeatedly says in the Old Testament) - to not stunt the growth of our fellow servants as Jesus put it. He is coming to ask us questions about this!

I remember that Micah addressed this very issue. It is probably the strongest argument for worship being that which comes from our charity toward each other.

Yes, it has to be both.

 

[babochka]

Don’t know about that. Extroverts could use some learning there too, and not presume everyone enjoys being part of some herd mentality.

I figure that both introverts and extroverts need to work to understand each other and treat each other with understanding and compassion. I’ll do my part (including educating them about introverts) and let them do theirs.

 

[ProVobis]

I figure that both introverts and extroverts need to work to understand each other and treat each other with understanding and compassion. I’ll do my part (including educating them about introverts) and let them do theirs.

Points taken, but I hope we don’t further divide the introverts and extroverts. And perhaps (as I’ve stated at the beginning) there is a better categorization of those in attendance. At any one Mass, there is hardly any fair cross-section of the real community. Three quarters of Catholics don’t even go to Mass. Your reference to the Baltimore Catechism, however, was a valid one and so makes me rethink the communion of saints aspect, but only that.