The meaning of afterlife

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As an atheist I am often asked, what is the meaning of life, if there is no god, no afterlife, life ends with death, … That life may have no other meaning or purpose than simply to live, is obviously not a good answer for a theist.

So I like to ask you, if there is a god and an afterlife, **what is the meaning and/or purpose of that afterlife **(other than just going to heaven or hell)? Do you have an opinion about that, or do you not care and intend to wait until after death in order to find out? Is there an official RCC opinion?
 
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AnAtheist:
As an atheist I am often asked, what is the meaning of life, if there is no god, no afterlife, life ends with death, … That life may have no other meaning or purpose than simply to live, is obviously not a good answer for a theist.

So I like to ask you, if there is a god and an afterlife, **what is the meaning and/or purpose of that afterlife **(other than just going to heaven or hell)? Do you have an opinion about that, or do you not care and intend to wait until after death in order to find out? Is there an official RCC opinion?
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To be in the direct presence of God, of course – an eternal Beatific Vision, an everlasting joy in finding (and bathing) the very purpose of our existence!
 
The Church teaches that death is not the end of life, only a part of it. It is a path that we all must take. I’ve heard the analogy put this way. If you believe there is no Heaven or Hell, but I do, what happens after we die? If you are right, I’ve lost nothing and you’ve gained nothing. If I am right, you’ve lost everything and I’ve gained everything. You loose nothing by having faith in Christ. You chance loosing everything if you don’t.
 
One thing that I think needs to be clear is that God created us, and He also created time. The “after life” cannot be fully grasped in any number of ways, but one is that there is no time there.

The details, quite honestly, are very sketchy as to the purpose. But one thing that I believe is quiote commonly held: everything on earth that is good is a foretaste of heaven. Imagine anything that is beautiful, tasteful, joyous, etc. on earth, and multiply these things greatly - and that is heaven.

Certainly, we will share in the beatific vision of God. For those who do not believe in God, you may say “big deal.” But think outside the box. If there is a God who is awesome enough to create everything, all of us, how awesome must He be in appearance? How awesome must sharing heaven with Him be? So, if indeed we are correct, then this reward should be able to appreciated for even those who do not comprehend or believe in God.

If one is to believe many of the visions of heaven, hell, and purgatory that past saints have had, then it is evident that heaven is the complete outpouring of all things good to all of us, and hell is the complete absence of those things. Even if one doesn’t believe in actual “fire and brimstone” in hell, the fact is that anyone who chooses to live without God in this life has opted to live without God for eternity.

Since God still reaches out on earth, he can still bring certain happiness and joy to anyone - including atheists. The atheist may not recognize that any good thing on earth comes from God, but it does. However, in hell, God allows the dignity of that choice to come to full fruition. In hell, there will be no presence of God. Without God, there can be no light, no happiness, no joy, no love.

As for the ultimate purpose God has in store for all of us for eternity? I’m sure there are many. But just as I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what my purpose was on earth while I was in the womb, I can’t say what all is in store for us.
 
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AnAtheist:
As an atheist I am often asked, what is the meaning of life, if there is no god, no afterlife, life ends with death, … That life may have no other meaning or purpose than simply to live, is obviously not a good answer for a theist.

So I like to ask you, if there is a god and an afterlife, **what is the meaning and/or purpose of that afterlife **(other than just going to heaven or hell)? Do you have an opinion about that, or do you not care and intend to wait until after death in order to find out? Is there an official RCC opinion?
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The question of the purpose of life cannot be answered apart from God. If there is no rational creator of the universe, then there is no purpose to life, save whatever “purpose” we choose to arbitrarily assign to it. In order for there to be a purpose to life, it naturally requires there to have been a creator capable of rationalizing such a purpose. If God therefore created us, our purpose is to serve Him in whatever way He wishes. Our purpose in the afterlife would necessarily be the same, although the manifestation of that service may be different.
 
I guess you have to define purpose as well. In our society much is made out of the purpose for everything we do. The purpose of my job is to support my family some would say. The purpose of saving money is to have a comfortable retirement, etc. I sometimes wonder if our society puts too much emphasis on the word purpose, or at least misdirects its meaning so that it becomes little more than the acquisition of material “things”. So I ask, by purpose do you mean what do we get out of Heaven? Do you mean what does God get out of having us in Heaven? Something else?

The Church defines Heaven as, “the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.” (CCC 1024).

I’m not sure how you would define “purpose” in this context. In the context of my second analogy above, if the purpose of saving money is a comfortable retirement then what is the purpose of a comfortable retirement?
 
The question of the purpose of life cannot be answered apart from God. If there is no rational creator of the universe, then there is no purpose to life, save whatever “purpose” we choose to arbitrarily assign to it. In order for there to be a purpose to life, it naturally requires there to have been a creator capable of rationalizing such a purpose. If God therefore created us, our purpose is to serve Him in whatever way He wishes. Our purpose in the afterlife would necessarily be the same, although the manifestation of that service may be different.

Dr. Collosus,

Although I firmly beleive and have faith in God, I am not entirely certain that you need God to have a “purposeful” life. You can be born, decide to rid the world of hunger, accomplish that, and die without ever knowing God. Catholics, Christians, et al. have no monopoly on acheiving meaning in their life. I know many Catholics, devout, who lead meaningless lives. And yes, many aetheists accomplish this too.

I also wonder about this conclusion:

"If God therefore created us, our purpose is to serve Him in whatever way He wishes."

How did you reach that conclusion? I think the answer has to be more complex that humans are to be a “slave race” to God. Also, I think this about this a lot from an employer point of view. If I was a good employer (I am actually) and I wanted to make sure my employees did everything to serve me to the best, wouldn’t I write a very clear and concise Employee Manual and show up every so often to make sure my employees aren’t acting like chuckleheads and serving me well? I wouldn’t write my Employee Manual in Mandarin Chinese and expect my employees to interpret it, would I? I’d hate to apply a human judgement to a divine plan but I think every server needs a servee with a presence.

I guess that’s why I prefer the word “follow” over “serve”.

I think we are on our own in our world and I have faith it is for a good reason; I just don’t know what. It doesn’t mean there is no afterlife or God; it just means we have been stranded here for some divine reason. An occasional miracle gets through once in awhile from God, but for the most part, none of us has a hotline to him.

Anyway, back to the topic - The Meaning of Afterlife.

I am not sure when you cross the physical world into the metaphysical world that words like “meaning” have any um, meaning. In other words, maybe in the afterlife, you never again have to search for meaning in your afterlife.
 
Although I firmly beleive and have faith in God, I am not entirely certain that you need God to have a “purposeful” life. You can be born, decide to rid the world of hunger, accomplish that, and die without ever knowing God. Catholics, Christians, et al. have no monopoly on acheiving meaning in their life. I know many Catholics, devout, who lead meaningless lives. And yes, many aetheists accomplish this too.
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I’m not saying that a person’s life is devoid of meaning without God. If a person lives and helps others and serves the poor, their life will mean something to whom they serve. What I meant was that, when we’re thinking of the “meaning of life” in general, in order to ascribe any kind of meaning to life as a whole, there must have be a rational creator who “meant” to create life. Otherwise the question is pointless.
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**“If God therefore created us, our purpose is to serve Him in whatever way He wishes.”
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****How did you reach that conclusion? I think the answer has to be more complex that humans are to be a “slave race” to God. Also, I think this about this a lot from an employer point of view. If I was a good employer (I am actually) and I wanted to make sure my employees did everything to serve me to the best, wouldn’t I write a very clear and concise Employee Manual and show up every so often to make sure my employees aren’t acting like chuckleheads and serving me well? I wouldn’t write my Employee Manual in Mandarin Chinese and expect my employees to interpret it, would I? I’d hate to apply a human judgement to a divine plan but I think every server needs a servee with a presence.

I guess that’s why I prefer the word “follow” over “serve”.

Let me put it another way. If God made us, He made us to fulfill a purpose. If we fulfill that purpose, that’s service. Of course it’s more complex than that, as over 6000 years of Judeo-Christian writing will attest. It may very well be that we “serve” God by existing, simply so He can share His love with us. It may also be that we exist to share God with others. It may also be that we each have a very specific purpose that God has ordained since the beginning of time that we are called to fulfill in this life. I happen to believe all three. However, if God made us for Himself, then our service is not slavery, but a fulfillment of our very nature.
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I think we are on our own in our world and I have faith it is for a good reason; I just don’t know what. It doesn’t mean there is no afterlife or God; it just means we have been stranded here for some divine reason. An occasional miracle gets through once in awhile from God, but for the most part, none of us has a hotline to him.
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A lot more miracles occur in this world than you might think. Every single saint recognized by the Church must have at least 3 well-documented miracles attributed to their intercession. Considering how thousands of saints have been canonized in the last 25 years alone, that makes for quite a number of miracles. As for God “showing up every now and then”, He has made His presence known in Christ His Son, who told us “I am with you until the end of the Age.” Unless of course you don’t believe in all that Bible stuff.
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1st, thanks to all who have answered so far. Some of you wanted the terms *meaning *and *purpose *to be clarified.

I like to put my initial question in a simpler form: What do you think will you do in your afterlife?

Just enjoying the presence of your god for all eternity? Or enjoying anything you enjoyed on earth? Don’t you think you will be bored to afterdeath* after 3 billion years or so?
  • sorry, couldn’t resist the pun
 
Dr. Collosus,

Great response. Thank you for the clarification. I like fufillment better than “service”. I am not trying to be prideful about that but it is difficult to serve somebody when you have a dozen or so intermediaries all babbling in between.

As far as this:
He has made His presence known in Christ His Son, who told us “I am with you until the end of the Age.” Unless of course you don’t believe in all that Bible stuff.
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He may indeed be with all of us but we are not necessarily aware of it at all times. In fact, most people on this earth are unaware of it. To go back to my employer analogy, it is like me showing up to work through the back door, going to my office in secret, and watching my employees all day on video camera. I may be there but they are unaware of it.

Is that good leadership?

In essence, I do beleive we have been “stranded” but for a divine purpose. We need to take care of each other because God isn’t going to do it for us. Someday, I have faith we will all meet him and be eternally taken cared for.
 
He may indeed be with all of us but we are not necessarily aware of it at all times. In fact, most people on this earth are unaware of it. To go back to my employer analogy, it is like me showing up to work through the back door, going to my office in secret, and watching my employees all day on video camera. I may be there but they are unaware of it.
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Is that good leadership?
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In essence, I do beleive we have been “stranded” but for a divine purpose. We need to take care of each other because God isn’t going to do it for us. Someday, I have faith we will all meet him and be eternally taken cared for.
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I see where you’re coming from, but I think there is a problem with the “employer” analogy. God doesn’t call us to just “work” for Him. He also calls us to love Him. A better analogy would be that God is the head of a family. Would it be right for Him to never be involved? No. But, if His children are having problems, would it be right to force Himself on us, and make us come to Him? Again, no. I agree with you that we are called to do things for others, often on our own. But I don’t believe we are stranded. I believe that God gives us what we need to live our lives well, including little boosts (miracles, divine intervention, etc) that we may either perceive or pass off as coincidence. Also, perhaps the reason we appear so stranded is not God’s will, but a result of our sin?
 
Quote from Gr. 9 Catechism “Our Goal and Our Guide”

“Some people have the most foolish ideas! No wonder they do not have a very strong wish to go to heaven! Some tink it is a place where we sit down all day, twiddle our thumbs, listen to nice music and look at God. But it is ever so much more than that”

“Heaven is a real place. It is also a state of happiness. There we shall enjoy beauty, and truth, and justice, and love, and unity, and peace, and friendship, and all good things. The greatest happiness in heaven will be to possess God for eternity and to see Him face to face. That does not sound too exiciting, does it? But stop a minute and imagine how happy you would be if you were suddenlly given as a present a gold wrist watch, or a nice ring, or a suit, or beautiful dress, or even a new shiny automobile, or some other thing you want very much. You would feel good all over, wouldn’t you? Now multiphy that a billion times and maybe you will begin to realize what it will be like to possess God”
 
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Mandi:
But stop a minute and imagine how happy you would be if you were suddenlly given as a present a gold wrist watch, or a nice ring, or a suit, or beautiful dress, or even a new shiny automobile, or some other thing you want very much. You would feel good all over, wouldn’t you? Now multiphy that a billion times and maybe you will begin to realize what it will be like to possess God"
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Yup, done that. Gets boring after a billion billion years, which is still only a fraction of eternity.
 
Two things:

1.) There is a problem with thinking of eternity as “infinite time”. Time is a byproduct of our universe, because things change and therefore there is a sequence of beginnings and endings to various elements of existence. In the Judeo-Christian understanding of Heaven, time simply does not exist. That’s not to say that everything is frozen, but that time doesn’t really “pass”. Being beyond my comprehension of course, I can’t really explain it, but I hope that makes a little more sense.

2.) This idea of becoming bored doesn’t quite work either, because the reason we become bored with something is entirely biological. Our bodies have what is called sensory adaptation, which heightens our awareness of some things while dulling others. This is a survival mechanism which is necessary so that we don’t become so fixated with something new that we, say, forget to eat. Eventually, continued experience of the same thing will dull our senses to it. However, in Heaven we will possess no body, so we can’t assume that we will become bored in the same manner.
 
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AnAtheist:
Yup, done that. Gets boring after a billion billion years, which is still only a fraction of eternity.
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Again, you are thinking in terms of humanity and in terms of time. If there is a God powerful enough to Create an entire Universe, Create an infinite heaven, Create unmitigated joy and happiness, you get my point…

If God can do all that, I suspect that He will be able to keep us from getting bored. In fact, if you consider boredome a type of suffering, and there is no suffering in heaven, we simply will be unable to ever be bored. And I get back to my point that, since we are creatures that live in time, how in the world can we even imagine living outside of time? I suspect all the rules as we know them are broken, and it will only be at that point that we can understand how we will actually live in eternity without suffering from eternal boredom.

The simplest answer to your question, really, is we don’t know. None of us do. What we do know is that we can’t imagine how awesome it will be, we can’t imagine the joy we will feel, and we will be happy to be there, forever.
 
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AnAtheist:
Yup, done that. Gets boring after a billion billion years, which is still only a fraction of eternity.
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Sorry! 😦 Don’t know what else to say. God has placed in every human being a natural desire to be happy. Everyone looks for happiness wherever he thinks he will most surely find it. Riches, fame, power, influenece and others more foolish in pleasure and dissipation. A Christian who knows God and what He has revealed knows that man’s yearning for happiness is above all a yearning for perfect, eternal happiness. It is really a yearning for GOD!

If you never realize this than there is nothing anyone can do for you execpt pray. If you want to realize this than start to pray yourself

“Holy Ghost, God of Light, really and truly in my soul, give me Thy blessed light, that I may see all things clearly”

*“O Mary, Mother of Perpetual Help, thou knowest so well the great value of an immortal soul”

*Ever wonder why some have such unshakeable faith and others believe in nothing?
 
I do want to commend “AnAtheist” for asking questions without being antagonistic - as is often the case with people who believe something apart from the Catholic Church.

I sincerely hope that you continue to ask thoughtful questions about our faith.

I know it may be difficult to pray to a God that you don’t believe in, but it has happened before that atheists have prayed things like “God, if you are really there, I want to believe in you. Please help me believe in you.” While you can’t expect a bolt of lightning from heaven, saying such a prayer in sincerity can, in time, do wonders. Don’t expect an overnight miracle, although it ahs happened.

If you’re curious, I’d also look into Eucharistic Miracles. Sometimes atheists like some proof beyond the natural “proofs” that the rest of us see. If you have an open mind, Eucharistic Miracles are simply unexplainable apart from our belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Many have been scientifically tested and verified. If one is being intellectually honest, it has to give you pause.
 
AnAtheist said:
1st, thanks to all who have answered so far. Some of you wanted the terms *meaning *and *purpose *to be clarified.

I like to put my initial question in a simpler form: What do you think will you do in your afterlife?

Just enjoying the presence of your god for all eternity? Or enjoying anything you enjoyed on earth? Don’t you think you will be bored to afterdeath* after 3 billion years or so?
  • sorry, couldn’t resist the pun
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Actually its a pretty good pun. 😉

However, it presumes an afterlife in which time is measured in the same way it is measured here on Earth. That is not the Church’s position. Even in our physical universe, time is relative, appearing to run at different speeds depending on the relative position and speed of the observer compared to the relative speed and position of the person being observed. If one is willing to accept that there is such a thing as God and Heaven (and I understand you are not, yet) then it should not be a stretch to accept a state of being where time as we understand it physically, will not have the same meaning.

As I mentioned earlier, we see Heaven as fulfilment. It is an end unto itself. I can’t imagine being bored there anymore than I can imagine being bored when I’m dreaming.
 
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AnAtheist:
Yup, done that. Gets boring after a billion billion years, which is still only a fraction of eternity.
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Eternity is eternity, it’s not a term for a certain period of time; eternity is not a very long, long, long time, mind.

A saint once put it this way: the Beatific Vision is bathing in the very essence of Love – God Himself – the love that comes from Him is eternal and never changing, yet never monotone, since God is always the same. Each moment is like a first-time experience, yet that moment is stretched to eternity. It’s a sort of a paradox, but there are a lot of paradoxes in Christianity… so there you have it. :cool:
 
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