The Meaning of Bodily Resurrection

[Ben_Masada]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Excuse me butting in here. But the Bible is very clear that Lord Jesus rose bodily from the grave. So did Lazarus, he definitely came out of the grave, its well reported.

 

[JeanneH]

Brother2;5193176:

Hi Ben ,
speaking just for myself,

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How about providing us with an eyewitness for the resurrection of Jesus? All we know is that at the end of that Sabbath the tomb was empty?

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So then I guess you believe in the resurrection of Lazarus because it was witnessed? If Jesus could raise Lazarus from the dead why would you doubt that he could raise himself? Or is this another part of the NT you don’t believe?

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Oh! You are one of those who believe in ghosts! I am sorry about you.

**

I do not believe in ghosts but I do believe in the everlasting life of my spirit/soul.

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The breath of life has nothing to do with ghosts. One does not die because of sin. One dies because he was born. That’s natural.

**

We were meant to live physically forever in the garden of Eden but because of Adam and Eve’s sin of disobedience our physical bodies will die. There fore God had to come up with another way of our living forever with him and that is where Jesus comes in. Our physical bodies will die because of the sin of Adam and Eve but our spiritual bodies/souls will live forever. We will live in eternal happiness with God if we die in the state of grace or in the fires of hell if in the state of sin.

**

This is Church conspiracy. Jesus was a religious Jew. He would not contradict the Scriptures by teaching that the dead can come back from death

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Yes Jesus is a religious Jew. That is exactly what he is teaching in the book of Revelations. The souls that died in the state of grace will be raised with their bodies to live with Jesus and the souls of the sinner will be raised with their bodies to the damnation of hell for all eternity.

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That’s faith that moves mountain but stops knowledge when it begins. No wonder people perish for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)

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Yes people do perish from the lack of knowledge of God/Jesus and His saving Grace

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Those are metaphorical lessons taken from the lives of Enoch, Elijah and Moses. What happened in the Mount Tabor was a vision the disciples had where they were almost asleep. Neither the saints nor Jesus arose from the dead. No one is an eyewitness of anything, even in the NT.

**

They could have not been too sleepy if they wanted to erect tents for them. Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Christians are completed Jews.

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Yes, when you bring Christian preconceive notions into it.

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Christians do not have preconceived notions. We follow what the Bible teaches.
Again, if you pick and choose what you want to believe from the Bible both OTand NT you are at a distinct disadvantage.

God Bless
Jeanne

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Brother2;5193176:

**How about providing us with an eyewitness for the resurrection of Jesus? All we know is that at the end of that Sabbath the tomb was empty? **

Oh! You are one of those who believe in ghosts! I am sorry about you.

The breath of life has nothing to do with ghosts. One does not die because of sin. One dies because he was born. That’s natural.

This is Church conspiracy. Jesus was a religious Jew. He would not contradict the Scriptures by teaching that the dead can come back from death.

That’s faith that moves mountain but stops knowledge when it begins. No wonder people perish for lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)

Those are metaphorical lessons taken from the lives of Enoch, Elijah and Moses. What happened in the Mount Tabor was a vision the disciples had where they were almost asleep. Neither the saints nor Jesus arose from the dead. No one is an eyewitness of anything, even in the NT.

Yes, when you bring Christian preconceive notions into it.

This is off-topic, but why do you write in that GIANT BLUE FONT?? Are you trying to dominate this thread by writing BIGGER than other people? Bigger doesn’t make your righter!!

 

[Brother2]

HO HO HO…looks as if I put the Christian Cat in with the Jewish Pigeons?? Wonderful!

First let me say I respect the Jewish Religion, it is where we get Christianity from and Lord Jesus was a Jew…and much of the Jewish Sanctuary Services teach us about God’s Plan of Salvation. The animal sacrifices were parables, object lessons, shadows, to remind the Jews and were a picture book for the Gentiles, whom the Jews were intended to preach to and convert to the Worship of the True Creator God…

Thank you to all of you who took the time to answer the ‘Blue Writing’!! Saved me a lot of trouble huh??

At the risk of standing alone again…‘God breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life and Man became a living soul’. ‘The Breath of Life returns to God who gave it.’ ‘The soul that sinneth it shall die.’ Only God is Immortal’.

All Bible texts written above. When a person dies their brain dies, they cannot think anymore, they cannot see anymore they cannot hear anymore, they are DEAD.

Now as i say I am in danger of losing all my supporters who answered the ‘Blue Writing’ and I am sorry about that. But I just want to give you all cause to think…

I mentioned Spiritualism because these beliefs were like the ‘tares sown amongst the wheat’…Lucifer the father of lies has sown so many tares/weeds among the good wheat/truth.

Yes there is a bodily resurrection and I thank that person who mentioned it…when the knowledge of who we were in life is given back by God, He keeps a record of who we are, how we walked how we talked all our mannerisms, the essence of who we were or are etc, he returns all that to the new body that is resurrected…but the thing is the dead are unconscious yet kept in the arms of Lord Jesus until the resurrection…

I personally have NO axe to grind here People, I respect all your different views and beliefs but in danger of being smug or whatever you would call it, I am like a loving father trying to explain to ‘children’ the Truth of what happens after you die…I am telling you what the Bible teaches, surely there are some problems with translation of some verses but I am telling you what the Whole Bible says rather than individual verses…

Wow sorry about all that but I am genuinely seeking to offer you truth…

So God bless and don’t be too hard on me…Michael.

 

[distracted]

That’s my purpose to post in this forum: To fix the image of Judaism which has been distorted every time you claim that Jesus was god as if there is room in Judaism for Greek Mythology.

huh???

 

[Eucharisted]

huh???

He’s trying to re-image Judaism, so that Jesus cannot be called God. In other words, he’s trying to tell us about a Judaism that has never and dose not exist. Case in point: the resurrection of the body. Every orthodox Jew believes in the resurrection. Only heretical Jews don’t believe in it.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben Masada;5199446:

Brother2;5193176:

Hi Ben ,

So then I guess you believe in the resurrection of Lazarus because it was witnessed? If Jesus could raise Lazarus from the dead why would you doubt that he could raise himself? Or is this another part of the NT you don’t believe?

Yes, you are right. That’s part of the 80 percent of interpolations for being a contradiction to the Scriptures. (Eccles. 9:6)

I do not believe in ghosts but I do believe in the everlasting life of my spirit/soul.

Only the Almighty Creator of the Universe is eternal and has everlasting existence. Anyone else who has been born can never live forever.

We were meant to live physically forever in the garden of Eden but because of Adam and Eve’s sin of disobedience our physical bodies will die. There fore God had to come up with another way of our living forever with him and that is where Jesus comes in. Our physical bodies will die because of the sin of Adam and Eve but our spiritual bodies/souls will live forever. We will live in eternal happiness with God if we die in the state of grace or in the fires of hell if in the state of sin.

There is no worse hell than to live in ignorance. Thanks God that He provided the tree of knowledge, so that man found his way out to struggle for his own life. I told you already, death has nothing to do with sin, but with being born. I can almost hear the Church speaking through your mouth. When are you going to speak from the Scriptures?

]Yes Jesus is a religious Jew. That is exactly what he is teaching in the book of Revelations. The souls that died in the state of grace will be raised with their bodies to live with Jesus and the souls of the sinner will be raised with their bodies to the damnation of hell for all eternity.

Jesus WAS a religious Jew. There is no such a thing as a place to be called Hell, and much less to burn people for eternity. Do you know what Century are we living? Century 21. You are speaking about the 16th Century, when the Church had the power to burn you in the “Autos-da-Fe” of the Inquisition. You don’t have to worry anymore. So, feel free!

**

Those are metaphorical lessons taken from the lives of Enoch, Elijah and Moses. What happened in the Mount Tabor was a vision the disciples had where they were almost asleep. Neither the saints nor Jesus arose from the dead. No one is an eyewitness of anything, even in the NT.

**

They could have not been too sleepy if they wanted to erect tents for them. Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Christians are completed Jews.

All part of the vision. And regarding the Law that Jesus came to fulfill, you forgot verse 19, where he says that we are supposed to do the same and continue observing the Law, as well as teaching without any change at all. (Mat. 5:19)

Christians do not have preconceived notions. We follow what the Bible teaches.
Again, if you pick and choose what you want to believe from the Bible both OTand NT you are at a distinct disadvantage

Sorry, but that’s not true. You follow what the Church tells you to, and not what the Bible teaches..

 

[JeanneH]

Hi Ben,

This is becoming a circular discussion. Again, what is the purpose if you don’t
believe in the Old and New Testament?

Even Jesus couldn’t do much for most of the Jews of his time who refused to believe in him. But for those who did he gave eternal life. How sad for you that you believe that this world is all there is to life.

I can only hope that God takes the veil from you eyes and you will see the truth. It is up to God now my friend and I wish you well on your journey for the truth.

God Bless
Jeanne

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t really think Ben believes in God. I think he is an atheist.

God takes a personal interest in his people. Leaving Christianity out of it, why would God care about Israel, why would he talk to his people and get angry when they didn’t worship him? Why would he care about human life, at all? Human life is extremely short, just a wink of God’s eye. Why would he care if we were good or not?

I think Ben thinks that the Old Testament is an allegorical history of the Jewish people, and that God is an allegory too.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Was there God when there was no life on earth? Obviously, because God is Eternal. Therefore, it makes no difference whether there is an afterlife or not. There will always be God. Your question is based on the fact that you are connecting your belief in God with your condition of reward. You are acting like the guy who was suggested to serve God, and he asked, “What’s in there for me?” That’s conditional faith, and worthy menstrual rags.

Aside from whether or not it is proper to give God praise and glory regardless of “what’s in it for us” →

Why would anyone care to do what is just, to not just look after number 1 and take whatever you can get, step on others heads on the way up that ladder, to take all the pleasure you can get and then some, to do any criminal bidding hoping to not get caught by the government authorities … why care about any sort of righteousness if this is all that there is, if all the good that you do or all the evil that you do will be of no account in an afterlife?

 

[Brother2]

Greetings Ben Masada! I’m glad to meet you. I hope you are well today!

Interesting point that you bring up. As a Mormon, I believe in the literal, bodily, and physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and that all of mankind will eventually be literally and physically resurrected with immortal, physical bodies.

You promote a few premises to support your conclusion. Just because I’m interested to understand your perspective on this, if you don’t mind, can you explain to me why I should accept your premises?

Kind Regards,
Finrock

Hello Finrock nice to read you. Um I know we would disagree on lots of things BUT YOU ARE 100% CORRECT on this one…thank you for that.

It’s a pity about the Jewish Religion, they were God’s Church on earth for 4000 years yet they did not accept their own Messiah when he came, born exactly on time by Daniel’s Prophecy!!! Born in the town of David as Prophesied by Isaiah. The old Testament is packed with Prophecy on the Messiah. The Pharisees knew KNEW, they rejected Him because they worried about their loss of prestige and power and influence…

God bless. Saw the Mormon Temple next to the Victoria and Albert Museum last week. Michael.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi Ben,

This is becoming a circular discussion. Again, what is the purpose if you don’t
believe in the Old and New Testament?

The circular that this discussion is becoming is due to the fact that you guys go back on the same questions over and over again. I just have to keep giving the same answers.

Even Jesus couldn’t do much for most of the Jews of his time who refused to believe in him. But for those who did he gave eternal life. How sad for you that you believe that this world is all there is to life.

For example, here is another one: About getting eternal life. Only God has eternal life. Whoever has been born must die. Regarding believing in Jesus or not, the problem of the Jews was not with Jesus but with Paul. Jesus had even Pharisees as disciples. And his Sect of the Nazarenes had also even Pharisees in their Jerusalem Council. It’s rather very sad that you need another life to condition your servitude to God!

I can only hope that God takes the veil from you eyes and you will see the truth. It is up to God now my friend and I wish you well on your journey for the truth.

**I also very much hope that God, in His mercy, help you to get rid of the Church blinders on your eyes. They must be too tight. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

I don’t really think Ben believes in God. I think he is an atheist.

God takes a personal interest in his people. Leaving Christianity out of it, why would God care about Israel, why would he talk to his people and get angry when they didn’t worship him? Why would he care about human life, at all? Human life is extremely short, just a wink of God’s eye. Why would he care if we were good or not?

I think Ben thinks that the Old Testament is an allegorical history of the Jewish people, and that God is an allegory too.

**You wish you could believe and love Elohim, the Creator of the Universe as we do. Never forget what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman. “You Gentiles worship what you do not understand; while we Jews understand what we worship.” And he continued, “God is Spirit (incorporeal) and we worship Him in spirit.” Finally, he said that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22-24)

There is something else you must never forget: There is no Atheist Jew. How could a Jew, a member of the People responsible for having brought the true God to the world be an Atheist? It doesn’t make sense.

Now, when you say, “Leaving Christianity out of it, why would God care about Israel?” God forgives you because you don’t know what you are saying. Least you know that you owe your collective salvation to the existence of Israel. You wouldn’t exist if Israel didn’t. Try to understand Genesis 8:21 with Jeremiah 31:35-37.**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Aside from whether or not it is proper to give God praise and glory regardless of “what’s in it for us” →

Why would anyone care to do what is just, to not just look after number 1 and take whatever you can get, step on others heads on the way up that ladder, to take all the pleasure you can get and then some, to do any criminal bidding hoping to not get caught by the government authorities … why care about any sort of righteousness if this is all that there is, if all the good that you do or all the evil that you do will be of no account in an afterlife?

**Sorry JMJ, but we can well see the kind of material you have been made of. The same material Paul was. His condition was the resurrection of the dead. “If the dead won’t resurrect,” he said, “let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.” (I Cor. 15:32) He would prefer to make a carnival of his life if there was no resurrection. This kind of conditional loyalty to God is just abjectionable. **

 

[JMJ_coder]

**Sorry JMJ, but we can well see the kind of material you have been made of. The same material Paul was. His condition was the resurrection of the dead. “If the dead won’t resurrect,” he said, “let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.” (I Cor. 15:32) He would prefer to make a carnival of his life if there was no resurrection. This kind of conditional loyalty to God is just abjectionable. **

Again, why should we obey commands if it doesn’t matter one way or the other?

How do we render an account to God (as is mentioned numerous times in Scripture) if there is no afterlife? It’s obvious that, in general, the just suffer on this earth while the wicked live in luxury. Where does God’s justice occur then, if there is no afterlife?

When Enoch walked no more with man and Elijah carried to Heaven on a chariot of fire…where did they go?

The Judaism of the Scriptures, the Judaism that is fulfilled in the New Testament, that Judaism believes in the afterlife and the resurrection of the body. Saint Paul, who was a Pharisee, believed in both the resurrection and the afterlife. All of the Apostles were Jews who believed in the same.

I guess you 20th/21st century “enlightened Jews” know more than God and the Children of Israel for the past 6000 years.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**You wish you could believe and love Elohim, the Creator of the Universe as we do. Never forget what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman. “You Gentiles worship what you do not understand; while we Jews understand what we worship.” And he continued, “God is Spirit (incorporeal) and we worship Him in spirit.” Finally, he said that salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22-24)

There is something else you must never forget: There is no Atheist Jew. How could a Jew, a member of the People responsible for having brought the true God to the world be an Atheist? It doesn’t make sense.

Now, when you say, “Leaving Christianity out of it, why would God care about Israel?” God forgives you because you don’t know what you are saying. Least you know that you owe your collective salvation to the existence of Israel. You wouldn’t exist if Israel didn’t. Try to understand Genesis 8:21 with Jeremiah 31:35-37.**

huh? How could my “collective salvation” be due to Israel? Are you talking about my Christian Faith which you deny? My faith has nothing to do with your faith according to YOU! You deny the Christian messages in the Old Testament! You make ZERO sense to me!!!

 

[distracted]

He’s trying to re-image Judaism, so that Jesus cannot be called God. In other words, he’s trying to tell us about a Judaism that has never and dose not exist. Case in point: the resurrection of the body. Every orthodox Jew believes in the resurrection. Only heretical Jews don’t believe in it.

thanks for the interpretation…

i don’t understand why the Resurrection from the dead is so hard to believe… it is no harder to grasp than the Incarnation…

and a lot of other things…

although i can kind of understand because… well, sometimes its hard to believe some ofthe things we believe…

which is why its called faith…

if i had never expereinced the Real Presence, i doubt i would, today, be much of a Christian…

 

[Ben_Masada]

Again, why should we obey commands if it doesn’t matter one way or the other?

**Would a Jewish answer help you why? We obey God’s Law because it is a Jewish thing to do so. No need of afterlife, or resurrection or Heavens. **

How do we render an account to God (as is mentioned numerous times in Scripture) if there is no afterlife? It’s obvious that, in general, the just suffer on this earth while the wicked live in luxury. Where does God’s justice occur then, if there is no afterlife?

There is no need of afterlife to “set things right with God through repentance, restoration and obedience.” (Isa. 1:18,19) That’s what life here and now is all about. God’s justice has nothing to do with our suffering as a result of the law of cause and effect.

When Enoch walked no more with man and Elijah carried to Heaven on a chariot of fire…where did they go?

**They went to the grave, just like any other mortal. Those are metaphorical expressions about Enoch and Elijah to enhance the importance of those two men. **

The Judaism of the Scriptures, the Judaism that is fulfilled in the New Testament, that Judaism believes in the afterlife and the resurrection of the body. Saint Paul, who was a Pharisee, believed in both the resurrection and the afterlife. All of the Apostles were Jews who believed in the same.

**Jews don’t believe in physical resurrection. The resurrection we believe is the one from Ezekiel 37:12. Physical resurrection is a contradiction to the Scriptures. **

I guess you 20th/21st century “enlightened Jews” know more than God and the Children of Israel for the past 6000 years.

Judaism evolves with mental evolution. Not that the Scriptures have changed; but that we have learned to interpret it with enlightenment. When it says in Genesis, “Grow and multiply,” it does not mean only in population but also in the intellect.

 

[Ben_Masada]

huh? How could my “collective salvation” be due to Israel? Are you talking about my Christian Faith which you deny? My faith has nothing to do with your faith according to YOU! You deny the Christian messages in the Old Testament! You make ZERO sense to me!!!

**No Christine, that’s not what I mean. Why don’t you take a look at the thread, “Salvation is from the Jews?” You might understand what I mean. This world is like a big boat. All Mankind is inside. It doesn’t matter what each one think. Everyone is safe because Israel is sailing it.

Do you remember God’s promise to Noah after the Flood? That He would never allow again another catastrophe of that size to hit all flesh. (Gen. 8:21) Jeremiah must have connected that promise of God’s to the existence of Israel, when he said that if Israel ever
ceases as a People before God, the natural laws will go berserk. (Jer. 31:35-37) Do you have an idea of the meaning of this if the natural laws cease to work properly? Universal catastrophes. So, the pledge to guarantee God’s promise to Noah has been Israel all along since it was created. **

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**No Christine, that’s not what I mean. Why don’t you take a look at the thread, “Salvation is from the Jews?” You might understand what I mean. This world is like a big boat. All Mankind is inside. It doesn’t matter what each one think. Everyone is safe because Israel is sailing it.

Do you remember God’s promise to Noah after the Flood? That He would never allow again another catastrophe of that size to hit all flesh. (Gen. 8:21) Jeremiah must have connected that promise of God’s to the existence of Israel, when he said that if Israel ever
ceases as a People before God, the natural laws will go berserk. (Jer. 31:35-37) Do you have an idea of the meaning of this if the natural laws cease to work properly? Universal catastrophes. So, the pledge to guarantee God’s promise to Noah has been Israel all along since it was created. **

I’m sorry, but I just think you are very biased toward Judaism (and rightly so, since you are a Jew), but this stuff doesn’t work for me. Because I believe Christ was the Messiah and he changed all the stuff in the Old Testament, by becoming the sacrificial lamb and dying for the sins of mankind. He IS the Truth and the Light and the Way.