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The Meaning of Middle Earth (The Lord of the Rings is the second most Catholic book next to the Bible)
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4
4Horsemen
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Thanks for the link.
Frodo was a cross-bearer as he was the âring-bearer.â We all are cross-bearers in various ways. I like the way the speaker talks about the image of Christ in others such as Gandalf (who gave his life to defeat the evil devil-like creature) and Aragorn, the traveler (âno place to lay his headâ). It was an excellent observation that Gollum, who rejected the good, was needed in order for Frodo to finally be rid of the evil Ring of Power. This happened because Frodo showed mercy to Gollum even though Sam wanted to kill him right there and then.
The Lord of the Rings is my favorite book and movie. Iâm interested to see what Peter Jackson will do with The Hobbit which should be quite good, but not on the same level as LOTR.
Frodo was a cross-bearer as he was the âring-bearer.â We all are cross-bearers in various ways. I like the way the speaker talks about the image of Christ in others such as Gandalf (who gave his life to defeat the evil devil-like creature) and Aragorn, the traveler (âno place to lay his headâ). It was an excellent observation that Gollum, who rejected the good, was needed in order for Frodo to finally be rid of the evil Ring of Power. This happened because Frodo showed mercy to Gollum even though Sam wanted to kill him right there and then.
The Lord of the Rings is my favorite book and movie. Iâm interested to see what Peter Jackson will do with The Hobbit which should be quite good, but not on the same level as LOTR.
C
cassini
Guest
Hereunder is a different opinion on fantasy literature, a preface to the unpublished book
FAIRYLAND IS HELL
MAGIC IS DEMON POWER
By
Paula Haigh
A Historical and Theological Critique of Fantasy and Fiction in Literature .
Foreword
In 2003, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger denounced the hugely popular âPotterâ books of J.K. Rowling. In a letter to a Catholic German Potter critic and author, he condemned the âsubtle seductionsâ of the Potter books that threaten to âcorrupt the Christian faith in souls even before it could properly growâ. In 2005, in conjunction with the release of the latest Rowling Potter book Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and in view of the fact that the cardinal was by then elected as Pope Benedict XVI, this condemnation made world headlines.
In the same fantasy literature vein however, are some stories of J.J. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, written many years before the Potter tales of Rowland. Of these, it would be hard to find an opinion poll in the world of popular books and literature that would not have Tolkienâs Lord of the Rings top of that list. Between them then, these authors fairly dominated the fiction market in the 20th century. Indeed, so successful were Lewisâs, Tolkienâs and Rowlingâs stories that they were made into movies, breaking attendance records each time. What we can say then - as we enter the third millennium of the Christian era, a time when the Catholic faith is diminishing at an unprecedented pace - is that these fantasy tales have become part of modern culture for countless millions of Christian children and adults worldwide.
It is not a well known maxim that where religion regresses, superstition progresses. Ironically, whereas the Triune God of Catholicism is manifestly missing and the capabilities of Satan are consequently well hidden, the International Association of Exorcists reports an upsurge in demonic possession worldwide. Moreover, today we are also experiencing a proliferation of the occult, spiritualism, spiritual healing, witchcraft, fortune-telling etc., throughout the world. Crimes and behaviour, often violent, including horrific murders, are being committed in the name of Satan himself. The paradox is that although these dark forces are at work around us, there is also an inherent denial that any of it is real, merely the illusions of Christian âfundamentalistsâ.
How then did Lucifer-Satan and his operative demons become trivialised as real beings, as powerful spirits hell-bent on luring us all to damnation with them in hell? Without doubt, fantasy literature played and continues to play a part. âOnce the truths of Faith cease to be real to the modern mind, other more exciting worlds are invented as a means of escape from the real that no longer appeals to the jaded minds of modernsâ says Miss Haigh.
And this is why the drug-crazy free-loving hippies of the 1960s recognised these fantasy tales for what they really are and took as their Bible Tolkienâs Lord of the Rings, and how such books and movies have become the most popular âintellectual and spiritualâ pastime for both children and adults in our time.
Given the nature of the subject matter in these books, stories of fantasy worlds, wizards, witches, magic etc., one can understand that they generated, and continue to generate, considerable debate, even in the Church, but especially among Christian parents whose children were/are reading them, some even showing up on the curriculum in their schools as compulsory reading. Instinctively they know there is something wrong with these fantasy stories, but they just cannot put their finger on it. Certainly there are one or two who made a stab at a critique, but all lacked real substance and especially authority. What was needed then, was a proper well-researched thesis on the subject.
At the same time, a virtual cataract of apologists, both Catholic and Protestant, traditional and neo-Modernist, writing in books, journals, websites and newspapers throughout the world, dismiss these concerns as unfounded. It seems that the temptation to defend the fantasy literature of the âdevout Roman Catholicâ Tolkien, the âdeeply Christianâ Lewis and the âChristian livingâ Rowling is too great in a world now bereft of popular Christian writers in any sphere.
continued
FAIRYLAND IS HELL
MAGIC IS DEMON POWER
By
Paula Haigh
A Historical and Theological Critique of Fantasy and Fiction in Literature .
Foreword
In 2003, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger denounced the hugely popular âPotterâ books of J.K. Rowling. In a letter to a Catholic German Potter critic and author, he condemned the âsubtle seductionsâ of the Potter books that threaten to âcorrupt the Christian faith in souls even before it could properly growâ. In 2005, in conjunction with the release of the latest Rowling Potter book Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and in view of the fact that the cardinal was by then elected as Pope Benedict XVI, this condemnation made world headlines.
In the same fantasy literature vein however, are some stories of J.J. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, written many years before the Potter tales of Rowland. Of these, it would be hard to find an opinion poll in the world of popular books and literature that would not have Tolkienâs Lord of the Rings top of that list. Between them then, these authors fairly dominated the fiction market in the 20th century. Indeed, so successful were Lewisâs, Tolkienâs and Rowlingâs stories that they were made into movies, breaking attendance records each time. What we can say then - as we enter the third millennium of the Christian era, a time when the Catholic faith is diminishing at an unprecedented pace - is that these fantasy tales have become part of modern culture for countless millions of Christian children and adults worldwide.
It is not a well known maxim that where religion regresses, superstition progresses. Ironically, whereas the Triune God of Catholicism is manifestly missing and the capabilities of Satan are consequently well hidden, the International Association of Exorcists reports an upsurge in demonic possession worldwide. Moreover, today we are also experiencing a proliferation of the occult, spiritualism, spiritual healing, witchcraft, fortune-telling etc., throughout the world. Crimes and behaviour, often violent, including horrific murders, are being committed in the name of Satan himself. The paradox is that although these dark forces are at work around us, there is also an inherent denial that any of it is real, merely the illusions of Christian âfundamentalistsâ.
How then did Lucifer-Satan and his operative demons become trivialised as real beings, as powerful spirits hell-bent on luring us all to damnation with them in hell? Without doubt, fantasy literature played and continues to play a part. âOnce the truths of Faith cease to be real to the modern mind, other more exciting worlds are invented as a means of escape from the real that no longer appeals to the jaded minds of modernsâ says Miss Haigh.
And this is why the drug-crazy free-loving hippies of the 1960s recognised these fantasy tales for what they really are and took as their Bible Tolkienâs Lord of the Rings, and how such books and movies have become the most popular âintellectual and spiritualâ pastime for both children and adults in our time.
Given the nature of the subject matter in these books, stories of fantasy worlds, wizards, witches, magic etc., one can understand that they generated, and continue to generate, considerable debate, even in the Church, but especially among Christian parents whose children were/are reading them, some even showing up on the curriculum in their schools as compulsory reading. Instinctively they know there is something wrong with these fantasy stories, but they just cannot put their finger on it. Certainly there are one or two who made a stab at a critique, but all lacked real substance and especially authority. What was needed then, was a proper well-researched thesis on the subject.
At the same time, a virtual cataract of apologists, both Catholic and Protestant, traditional and neo-Modernist, writing in books, journals, websites and newspapers throughout the world, dismiss these concerns as unfounded. It seems that the temptation to defend the fantasy literature of the âdevout Roman Catholicâ Tolkien, the âdeeply Christianâ Lewis and the âChristian livingâ Rowling is too great in a world now bereft of popular Christian writers in any sphere.
continued
C
cassini
Guest
Fairyland is Hell
Magic is demon power continued.
The point is though, if Tolkienâs, Lewisâs or Rowlingâs fantasy tales are Christian, then they should be manifestly Christian, and if they are manifestly Christian then there would be no debate about it. Indeed, we might well ask what do these commentators mean by âChristianâ? Lauding that the triumph of good over evil or claiming the love and friendship shown between characters in these books makes them âChristianâ is patently ridiculous. In the first place such are simply natural virtues and can be found in anyone, even atheists. Secondly, it cannot be denied that these fantasy tales deliberately exclude every precept of Christianity such as the Trinity as Creator, Christ as Saviour, His Church as universal, His Sacraments as necessary, etc., etc. Moreover, these âglimmers of Christianityâ offered, fade away into absurdity when compared with arguments against the orthodoxy and dangers of such fantasy literature based on doctrines derived from traditional theology and disciplines. Accordingly, on foot of this principle alone, to counteract the weakness in the apologistsâ thinking, we decided to publish this critique written by veteran American author Paula Haigh, a scholar of theology, philosophy and the empirical sciences related to cosmology and evolution.
Before introducing Miss Haighâs thesis it must be said that one reason we hesitated to publish until now lies in the fact that the doctrines and prohibitions involved would be viewed today as coming from the âDark Agesâ, containing no relevance to twenty-first century Christians. The idea that such harmless reading and adventure fun-giving movies as The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix or The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe could be classed as harmful in any way could only bring disbelief and incredulity from any quarter, and risks being classed as a relic of the past, like Trent or the thinking of the Inquisition, and be discarded as irrelevant. But now Pope Benedict XVIâs earlier condemnation has changed all that. Accordingly, we can no longer stand by as more and more such publications emerge defended by some with their superficial ideas that such fantasy tales offer âa Christian visionâ. If we are believing-Christians, and are aware of the origin, purpose and end of our religion, then true and accurate doctrine must be available for those who still have a love for truth. Never mind that such theology and insights have been discarded, forgotten, obscured and scorned for many years - truth never changes. If, behind all the fun and adventure there truly lurk deadly serious heresies, the subtle undermining of Christian belief, then it is our Christian duty to inform and be informed.
Anyone like more on the subject?
Magic is demon power continued.
The point is though, if Tolkienâs, Lewisâs or Rowlingâs fantasy tales are Christian, then they should be manifestly Christian, and if they are manifestly Christian then there would be no debate about it. Indeed, we might well ask what do these commentators mean by âChristianâ? Lauding that the triumph of good over evil or claiming the love and friendship shown between characters in these books makes them âChristianâ is patently ridiculous. In the first place such are simply natural virtues and can be found in anyone, even atheists. Secondly, it cannot be denied that these fantasy tales deliberately exclude every precept of Christianity such as the Trinity as Creator, Christ as Saviour, His Church as universal, His Sacraments as necessary, etc., etc. Moreover, these âglimmers of Christianityâ offered, fade away into absurdity when compared with arguments against the orthodoxy and dangers of such fantasy literature based on doctrines derived from traditional theology and disciplines. Accordingly, on foot of this principle alone, to counteract the weakness in the apologistsâ thinking, we decided to publish this critique written by veteran American author Paula Haigh, a scholar of theology, philosophy and the empirical sciences related to cosmology and evolution.
Before introducing Miss Haighâs thesis it must be said that one reason we hesitated to publish until now lies in the fact that the doctrines and prohibitions involved would be viewed today as coming from the âDark Agesâ, containing no relevance to twenty-first century Christians. The idea that such harmless reading and adventure fun-giving movies as The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix or The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe could be classed as harmful in any way could only bring disbelief and incredulity from any quarter, and risks being classed as a relic of the past, like Trent or the thinking of the Inquisition, and be discarded as irrelevant. But now Pope Benedict XVIâs earlier condemnation has changed all that. Accordingly, we can no longer stand by as more and more such publications emerge defended by some with their superficial ideas that such fantasy tales offer âa Christian visionâ. If we are believing-Christians, and are aware of the origin, purpose and end of our religion, then true and accurate doctrine must be available for those who still have a love for truth. Never mind that such theology and insights have been discarded, forgotten, obscured and scorned for many years - truth never changes. If, behind all the fun and adventure there truly lurk deadly serious heresies, the subtle undermining of Christian belief, then it is our Christian duty to inform and be informed.
Anyone like more on the subject?
4
4Horsemen
Guest
Canât Miss Haigh just accept the wonder of these stories? Has she read them? As for Pope Benedict, he may be receiving his information from his associates. Maybe he hasnât actually sat down and read them either. Paula Haigh may have a lot of credentials and knowledge about non-fiction, but she sure doesnât know a good story when she sees one, or, perhaps, reads one? If she wants overtly Catholic/Christian elements, she might want to write her own story, which probably wouldnât work as a fantasy. Her ideas are fantasical!Fairyland is Hell
Magic is demon power continued.
The point is though, if Tolkienâs, Lewisâs or Rowlingâs fantasy tales are Christian, then they should be manifestly Christian, and if they are manifestly Christian then there would be no debate about it. Indeed, we might well ask what do these commentators mean by âChristianâ? Lauding that the triumph of good over evil or claiming the love and friendship shown between characters in these books makes them âChristianâ is patently ridiculous. In the first place such are simply natural virtues and can be found in anyone, even atheists. Secondly, it cannot be denied that these fantasy tales deliberately exclude every precept of Christianity such as the Trinity as Creator, Christ as Saviour, His Church as universal, His Sacraments as necessary, etc., etc. Moreover, these âglimmers of Christianityâ offered, fade away into absurdity when compared with arguments against the orthodoxy and dangers of such fantasy literature based on doctrines derived from traditional theology and disciplines. Accordingly, on foot of this principle alone, to counteract the weakness in the apologistsâ thinking, we decided to publish this critique written by veteran American author Paula Haigh, a scholar of theology, philosophy and the empirical sciences related to cosmology and evolution.
C
cassini
Guest
The point 4Horsemen, of this thread (The Lord of the Rings is the second most Catholic book next to the Bible) is the claim that these fantasy tales are Christian, promote Christianity and I suppose even convert some to Christianity, not whether they are âgood storiesâ. That is the only reason I bothered to reply to the thread. Seeing however, that nobody is even interested in asking why these FANTASY stories are harmful to Christianity, I will take my leave again.Canât Miss Haigh just accept the wonder of these stories? Has she read them? As for Pope Benedict, he may be receiving his information from his associates. Maybe he hasnât actually sat down and read them either. Paula Haigh may have a lot of credentials and knowledge about non-fiction, but she sure doesnât know a good story when she sees one, or, perhaps, reads one? If she wants overtly Catholic/Christian elements, she might want to write her own story, which probably wouldnât work as a fantasy. Her ideas are fantasical!
As for Paula Haighâs knowledge about âgood fiction talesâ, let her speak for herself:
I was fortunate enough to have been brought up when a truly Catholic fiction was being produced in the works of Caryl Houselander, Robert Hugh Benson, Enid Dinnis, Fr. Owen Francis Dudley, Fr. Francis Finn, Michael Kent, S.M.C. and many others. Dudley, especially, presented the world of the 20th century as the milieu of his characters and one could not wish for a better example of truly Catholic fiction representing all of Reality. Outstanding examples are Shadow on the Earth and Pageant of Life. My favorite novel of all time is Enid Dinnisâ The Anchorhold â universal values of the religious vocation and supernatural charity.
But in Lewis and Tolkien we have something entirely different. Tolkien has constructed a new mythology for his Creation story. It has much more to do with Gnosticism, Modernism and false 19th century theories of geological catastrophism and evolutionism than with any similarity to or analogy with the divinely revealed creation story in Genesis. Both Lewis and Tolkien follow the majority secular view (as did Christopher Dawson) that mythology represents some kind of progressive approach upwards towards the full revelation of God in Christianity. They see myth as a kind of preparation for Revelation and for the Incarnation. But the Truth is just the opposite â if you follow Catholic sources. God gave divine Revelation and the Prophecies to Adam and to Moses. From this Primordial Revelation and Tradition, men, aided and inspired by Lucifer, degraded and corrupted the Original Revelation. The mythologies are the result.
The Real
Middle Earth PP. 181- 212, including the origin of english poetry.
4
4Horsemen
Guest
Well, cassini, I wouldnât go so far as to say that LOTR is the âsecond most Catholic book next to the Bible,â but my point is that there are Catholic-Christian elements running throughout the storyline as the video supported, not just that they are entertaining. Iâ'm not familiar with any of the Catholic fiction you suggested, so I donât have any opinion on it except that, maybe, these books should be introduced in our Catholic schools.The point 4Horsemen, of this thread (The Lord of the Rings is the second most Catholic book next to the Bible) is the claim that these fantasy tales are Christian, promote Christianity and I suppose even convert some to Christianity, not whether they are âgood storiesâ. That is the only reason I bothered to reply to the thread. Seeing however, that nobody is even interested in asking why these FANTASY stories are harmful to Christianity, I will take my leave again.
As for Paula Haighâs knowledge about âgood fiction talesâ, let her speak for herself:
I was fortunate enough to have been brought up when a truly Catholic fiction was being produced in the works of Caryl Houselander, Robert Hugh Benson, Enid Dinnis, Fr. Owen Francis Dudley, Fr. Francis Finn, Michael Kent, S.M.C. and many others. Dudley, especially, presented the world of the 20th century as the milieu of his characters and one could not wish for a better example of truly Catholic fiction representing all of Reality. Outstanding examples are Shadow on the Earth and Pageant of Life. My favorite novel of all time is Enid Dinnisâ The Anchorhold â universal values of the religious vocation and supernatural charity.
But in Lewis and Tolkien we have something entirely different. Tolkien has constructed a new mythology for his Creation story. It has much more to do with Gnosticism, Modernism and false 19th century theories of geological catastrophism and evolutionism than with any similarity to or analogy with the divinely revealed creation story in Genesis. Both Lewis and Tolkien follow the majority secular view (as did Christopher Dawson) that mythology represents some kind of progressive approach upwards towards the full revelation of God in Christianity. They see myth as a kind of preparation for Revelation and for the Incarnation. But the Truth is just the opposite â if you follow Catholic sources. God gave divine Revelation and the Prophecies to Adam and to Moses. From this Primordial Revelation and Tradition, men, aided and inspired by Lucifer, degraded and corrupted the Original Revelation. The mythologies are the result.
The Real
Middle Earth PP. 181- 212, including the origin of english poetry.
I think that both Tolkein and Lewis did not overtly attempt to write a Catholic story, but due to their own Catholic-Christian viewpoint certain elements of faith, hope, charity and truths of religion were covertly entertained, those spiritual values that uplift the soul, whether described as Catholic or not. I donât see your poiint about any kind of New Age or Gnosticism that âsee myth as a preparation for Revelation . . .â First you complain that there is no religious oriented underjpinning that can be called Catholic (or that you consider Catholic), then you complain that there is a religious meaning that resembles Gnosticism and is a danger to the âOriginal Revelationâ, thanks to Lucifer, who appears to be the creator of mythologies. But donât panic; most who read mythologies donât lose their faith because of wild myths. What about fairy tales? It is said there are Christian elements in them although some of them of violent and actually scary for small children for whom they are intended.
(As for Harry Potter books, I havenât read any, but my older daughters have read all of them besides LOTR and tell me not to fear, that Harry Potter, despite using magical means, is all for good winning over evil. I think that is key to presenting a moral picture/world in mythological literatureâsome of which may be interesting and, of course, some of which may be dull and boring. LOTR is not only interesting, it is meaningful in its Catholic symbolism)
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