The medical field is killing people

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Someone I know had cancer. He went to the so-called best cancer hospital in our area. They operated. The cancer then spread like wildfire. He died. His sister later researched his cancer on the web. She found info from a university out of state that you cannot operate on this cancer or it will spread. It first has to be bombarded with radiation. How in the world can this woman find out this info, and yet, these doctors were clueless? Don’t doctors do their homework? Do doctors just get among themselves and say “Let’s try this”? How can a easy way be established where a doctor can go online and discover the success rates with certain procedures for particular cancers? Is there a database available? If not, why not? It is just a matter of programming. The cancer, the treatment, and the sucess rate for the type of treatment used should be made available with given percentages (and even the given hospital). Today, before any surgery, we may all have to bring a pen & paper to the doctor’s office and write down exactly what the surgeon intends to do. Then, bring that paper to a doctor of a different hospital for another opinion.
 
My condolences on the loss of your friend.

The title of your thread is not is grossly misleading. One individual case of possible malpractice should not indict the entire field of medicine why saves countless lives everyday.

That being said not all doctors and/or hospitals are created equal. As in any profession there are good and bad. Many people, especially those without previous experience with serious illness place far to much trust in one doctor’s opinion. I do not know all the details of your friend’s case nor am I a doctor. I can not comment on this particular case. But as someone with chronic illness and having lost a sister to cancer I would always get a second (and possible 3rd) opinion before embarking on any major medical treatment/surgical procedure.

I have had a few bad experiences over the years but without the medical field I would have died as an infant. Without the medical care I recieve now I would die.
 
Doctors are fallible humans just like you.

The time to do a bunch of internet research and asking of probing questions is BEFORE you get cut open. Not much help in your circumstances, but a lesson we all need to learn.

Whether hiring a building contractor, buying a new car or getting medical help, don’t just place your life in the hands of another. Get involved, ask questions, look for alternatives.
 
See Every Year Third 225,000 Deaths
This article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) is the best article I have ever seen written in the published literature documenting the tragedy of the traditional medical paradigm.
If you want to keep updated on issues like this click here to sign up for my free newsletter.
This information is a followup of the Institute of Medicine report which hit the papers in December of last year, but the data was hard to reference as it was not in peer-reviewed journal. Now it is published in JAMA which is the most widely circulated medical periodical in the world.
The author is Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health and she desribes how the US health care system may contribute to poor health.
ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
  • **12,000 – unnecessary surgery **
  • **7,000 – medication errors in hospitals **
  • **20,000 – other errors in hospitals **
  • **80,000 – infections in hospitals **
  • **106,000 – non-error, negative effects of drugs **
I find it interesting that doctors are so active in gunj-control. I think they they would save more lives if they stuck to what they know.
 
These posts all assume the patient:
  • would have lived without treatment
  • would be free of suffering without treatment
  • played no part in their own demise ( as lying to doctors, or abusing prescription drugs)
In most cases the assumptions do not hold true. We always want to believe we are in control, so we often deny the truth, which is people battling dieses can delay death and pain if they balance the right drugs, however if balance is lost often the people are lost.
 
Someone I know had cancer. He went to the so-called best cancer hospital in our area. They operated. The cancer then spread like wildfire. He died. His sister later researched his cancer on the web. She found info from a university out of state that you cannot operate on this cancer or it will spread. It first has to be bombarded with radiation. How in the world can this woman find out this info, and yet, these doctors were clueless? Don’t doctors do their homework? Do doctors just get among themselves and say “Let’s try this”? How can a easy way be established where a doctor can go online and discover the success rates with certain procedures for particular cancers? Is there a database available? If not, why not? It is just a matter of programming. The cancer, the treatment, and the sucess rate for the type of treatment used should be made available with given percentages (and even the given hospital). Today, before any surgery, we may all have to bring a pen & paper to the doctor’s office and write down exactly what the surgeon intends to do. Then, bring that paper to a doctor of a different hospital for another opinion.
Out fo curiousity, what type of cancer was it?
 
Someone I know had cancer. He went to the so-called best cancer hospital in our area. They operated. The cancer then spread like wildfire. He died. His sister later researched his cancer on the web. She found info from a university out of state that you cannot operate on this cancer or it will spread. It first has to be bombarded with radiation. How in the world can this woman find out this info, and yet, these doctors were clueless? Don’t doctors do their homework? Do doctors just get among themselves and say “Let’s try this”? How can a easy way be established where a doctor can go online and discover the success rates with certain procedures for particular cancers? Is there a database available? If not, why not? It is just a matter of programming. The cancer, the treatment, and the sucess rate for the type of treatment used should be made available with given percentages (and even the given hospital). Today, before any surgery, we may all have to bring a pen & paper to the doctor’s office and write down exactly what the surgeon intends to do. Then, bring that paper to a doctor of a different hospital for another opinion.
I am sorry about the loss of your friend. But I think you are being much too critical of the situation without all of the facts. Medicine is not an exact science and solutions are not always black and white. Yes, the man’s sister may have found information on the internet about the type of cancer her brother had, but that still does not take into consideration the facts in this case. Most doctors, note I said MOST, do the best they can for their patients and cancer is a difficult disease to work with.

Second opinions are always good and an educated patient should ask all kinds of questions. Before any surgery, the patient is informed of the facts and signs a form verifying he/she has been explained these things. But I can’t tell you how many people never acknowledge that they have been told these things or that they signed a form stating that they have been informed and that they understand.
 
I wonder how many people would die every year had they not been treated by doctors?

Peace

Tim
To be fair, I don’t think that the poster was saying that we shouldn’t use drs. He/she was pointing out that some drs are antigun but more drs kill people then guns.

The poster did say that drs should stick with what they know, which means that the poster thinks that doctors should practice medicine.
 
I wonder how many people would die every year had they not been treated by doctors?

Peace

Tim
I don’ty have the figures, but it seems reasonable that the doctors should put effort into reducing the third major cause of death, especiallly since it is in their field of expertise.

I once saw a sign:* A man can do any amount of work, as long as it is not the work he has been assigned.* 😃
 
manualman, Why are we giving more compassion to a doctors weakness than the doctor for ours? Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around? Like it or not, the medical field is also supposed to be the compassionate field. They are supposed to provide “care”. As much as we should be personally responsible to “receive” the best care & get a second opinion, shouldn’t doctors be even more responsible (since it is their profession) to “give” the best care? I know doctors are human, but just as much as there is room for human error, you mean to tell me there is less room for human improvement? I’m simply suggesting that a database be provided with percentages of survival rates for every treatment used on each particular type of cancer. Wouldn’t it be better for a doctor to review and share such info with his patient? There is no reason why such info cannot be made accessible.
 
Show compassion for all. My most sincere condolences for your loss.

Who is to say the information wasn’t already given to the patient within that 50 pages of paperwork you are given? There are forms, website links, “quick fact” papers with 800 numbers and websites full of more information. Maybe there was no one to blame, and someone is mad because it was time for their loved one to go. That’s all I’m saying.
 
My heart goes out to you. My husband is a cancer survivor, his mother is still in remission from renal cancer and my brother is losing his battle with liver cancer even as we speak.

Have you checked on this doctor’s track record? Does he have a history of negligence, or a high rate of deaths of his patients (keep in mind, you’re talking about cancer, and the mortality rate for the patients of a cancer specialist will be much higher than that of a GP)?

It’s hard to remember at times that while all our thoughts and energies are focused on ONE person, our loved one is not the only person the doctor has to think about. He may have 30 to 100 patients, some more seriously ill than others, and he can’t take the time to get personally involved with every one of them.

We have become such a litigous society that we have “sued” ourselves out of doctors. Many doctors in our town have taken early retirement, or just up and moved away, because malpractice insurance premiums have prevented them from hiring enough help or buying up to date equipment (we don’t live in a big city, just one hospital for 50,000 residents). So the quality of care goes down. The ones that have stuck around have had to pick up the patient load for the ones that have left and we complain because we have to wait 45 minutes to be seen by the doctor or we have to wait a week for an appointment. Then we gripe about the bills.

That is not to say that there are not cases of out-and-out negligence. For example, the town where I work has one hospital (25 miles from the town and hospital previously mentioned). My FIL was taken to the ER there with a severe headache, vomiting, and drifting in and out of consciousness. We thought he was having a stroke. The ER receptionist told my BIL, “Sorry, we’re closed.” No one so much as looked out the door to see what the emergency was. Since it was the only hospital within a 25 mile radius, HOW could they justify “closing”? Because they didn’t have enough doctors. My BIL ran across the street to where my FIL’s regular GP had his office and only because that doctor left his practice and his patients waiting, was my FIL able to be admitted. It turned out he had an aneurysm, the worst the doctor had ever seen. Nothing could be done, and Dad died three days later. The doctor did the best he could, but obviously there is a breakdown in the system.

Perhaps the doctor in your case could or should have done more. Unless you research his track record, you may never know. If, indeed, he does have a record for negligence, it is important that you bring this to the attention of the medical board.

And remember that we are all human, even doctors, and we must pray to never be judged by our own defective criteria.

My prayers for you, please pray for me as well.
 
Show compassion for all. My most sincere condolences for your loss.

Who is to say the information wasn’t already given to the patient within that 50 pages of paperwork you are given? There are forms, website links, “quick fact” papers with 800 numbers and websites full of more information. Maybe there was no one to blame, and someone is mad because it was time for their loved one to go. That’s all I’m saying.
I can see where you may think that I’m upset over the loss of the person I’m referring to. Honestly, I never met this person. He is known by friends we had in common. I don’t even know what type of cancer he had (to answer a previous question). I’m just concerned about how to improve the medical field. It seems that many mistakes can be reduced.

Maybe you are correct that the info was provided in all that paperwork, but how long would it take to discuss with the patient the sucess of each treatment for his cancer? Besides chemo, radiation, surgery, or combining any of the three mentioned, there really aren’t that many other alternatives. Should it not be part of their protocol to make sure such info is provided both in written form and verbally? Once again, the focus here is both the acceptance of human error and human improvement. Isn’t providing room for the same mistake to happen Less Often better than leaving More room for a mistake to happen?
 
I think there is an overidding assumption being made.

That a doctor actually did make a mistake. That is, he knew better, but he did not do what he knew he should.

That is a major assumption. And it is also a dangerous one. Above and beyond it is false.

There are many unknowns when it comes to medicine. The body is simultaneously more complex and simple, stronger and fragile, resilient and hyper-sensitive than is fully understood. Not only is medical knowledge far from complete, medical knowledge does not even have the full list of questions that need answering.

Doctors do their best to navigate through all the unknowns.

There are lots of quack websites out there where people love to attack the medical profession and claim some sort of medical knowledge despite having no training. It is an act of evil for the uneducated to spout medical “knowledge” to the unsuspecting, the gullible and the desperate.

In gathering information regarding my own brother’s cancer, my kne problems (four surgeries and at least two more coming) and my parents health issues, I have found that website that describe how to treat certain diseases are almost invariably at odds with any doctor I have spoken to. A closer look shows them to be nothing short of quack sites. It would not surprise me if it turned out that the number website that promote quack treatments about cancer is surpassed only by the number of porn site.

Do not trust information about medical that you collect on the Internet.

See this article.

cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/23/ep.obnoxious/index.html
 
I have a fair amount of contact with the medical field and I see missed diagnoses, misdiagnoses and inappropriate treatment all the time. I don’t know that it’s quite correct to “blame” the doctors though.

The medical system is now largely a field, dominated in each city or region, by a handful of massive provider groups. They are organized for productivity and efficiency, and the groups or organization make stupefyingly large amounts of money. A desire to effect efficiency, which is, I think, largely a financial efficiency, however, has caused doctors to be extremely segmented and limited in what they do. They also are paid on the basis of “production”, which causes them to rush through cases and segment all the more. When fees are based on codes, you don’t get anything for researching or thinking things through. Once you meet the requirements of the procedure, you’re expected to move on to the next patient. You certainly don’t know your patient personally, most of the time. And the more specialized you are, the less you know them.

In talking to doctors who are friendly, I sometimes mention what I call the “Rolling Head Phenomenon”, which goes like this. If, a severed head rolled into an Opthalmologist’s office and, upon examining its eyes, the Opthalmologist saw nothing that fit a category of pathology within his field, he would swear there was nothing wrong with the patient at all. Doctors almost always affirm the truth of the “Rolling Head Phenomenon”, and many regret that their world is like that. Many, many, many will admit that the “art” of medicine has been banished. Only the “science” remains, and that “science” has to fit into categories of manifestations, tests and treatment. No veering to the right or to the left. I discussed with a very talented doctor, the head of his department, the Solzhenitzyn novel “Cancer Ward”, in which an old pre-revolutionary doctor could make most diagnoses, and with uncanny accuracy, just by sitting and having a conversation with the patient, noting the way the patient moved, spoke, his color, the various ways in which the body and the mind give away their secrets. The doctor got really choked up and said “that’s how it should be, but we can’t”.

The Opthalmologist is not paid, encouraged or authorized to note that the patient has been beheaded. And he has forty patients to see that day.

And, while Opthalmologists are pretty well paid, lots of doctors aren’t paid anything like what we out here think they are. The lower the doctor is on the “specialty” chart, the less he/she is paid. The Family Practitioners, who are supposed to make the proper referrals to the proper specialists, have the greatest patient/day burden and are paid the least. No time for the “art” of medicine. No encouragement either.

And while we, or our insurer or Medicare pay immense sums for the simplest things (and much more for more complex things) and the provider groups are awash with wealth, the doctor himself, the nurses, the NPs, get very little of what “they” charge.

Why is this? Part of it has to do with the medical school selection process. Upon questioning, doctors have admitted to me that, at bottom, the ability to get into medical school is almost totally dependent on math skill. If you can’t do the math, you can’t do the chemistry or biology. You might know the heart inside and out and be able, like Solzhenitzyn’s doctor, diagnose with perfection. But if you can’t do math well, you can’t get into medical school to start with. And how many doctors really do chemical analyses to determine what meds to give their patients anyway? A recent study showed that about 30% of all doctors have at least some symptoms of Asperger’s, and that came as no surprise to me at all.

But more than that, it has to do with money. The big medical groups, insurers and the government, all of which encourage intense categorization and narrow focus, and none of which want to hear about the “art” of medicine.

So, while I cannot possibly know how the OPs situation arose, and while I don’t condemn doctors generally or think they’re quacks, (They’re not) as I said, they are doing “assembly line” work and it’s no surprise that things get missed. As I said, I see it all the time.
 
The author is Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health and she desribes how the US health care system may contribute to poor health.
ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
Code:
* 12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
* 7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
* 20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
* 80,000 -- infections in hospitals
* 106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs
Notice that the article attributes these deaths to the healthcare system of which doctors are a part. That does not mean doctors are responsible for the deaths in each of the categories above. Medication errors may be attributable to other personnel e.g. nurses or pharmacists or even the patients themselves. Negative effects of drugs and passing on of infections may be unavoidable and are often part of the risk associated with treating particular conditions…

The problem is not with the data, but with how it is interpreted.

As to the OP’s friend, we may never know what really happened. Maybe the site is wrong, maybe the doctor was, maybe there were individual circumstances/decisions at play which led to this result. Without all the nitty-gritty details, it borders on irresponsible to head a post in this manner.
 
When you have an AMA that supports ripping kids out of the womb what do you expect. Every Pro-life Doctor should boycott the AMA, they stink.
 
When you have an AMA that supports ripping kids out of the womb what do you expect. Every Pro-life Doctor should boycott the AMA, they stink.
What’s it with the ‘stinky’ name-calling (second such post I’ve seen in as many minutes). All our sin sends up a stench up to heaven - I’m sure grateful God’s mercy is able to look past this and still love us!
 
What’s it with the ‘stinky’ name-calling (second such post I’ve seen in as many minutes). All our sin sends up a stench up to heaven - I’m sure grateful God’s mercy is able to look past this and still love us!
In both cases it was me. So, in answer to your question, I’m with it. If I were evil enough to agree with baby killing I hope people would say, I stink too. It’s all in a spirit of compassion for the sinner.
 
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