The Messiah will fear God?

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We read Isaiah 11: 1 - 3 that the Messiah will fear God.
" he will delight in the fear of the LORD."
But how could Jesus, being God, fear God?
 
AlNg said:
We read Isaiah 11: 1 - 3 that the Messiah will fear God.
" he will delight in the fear of the LORD."
But how could Jesus, being God, fear God?
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The fear of the Lord is a gift of the Holy Spirit. This is called filial fear: profound respect for the majesty of God. Its effects are protection from sin through dread of offending the Lord, and a strong confidence in the power of his help.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1831 The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations. …
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Remember, Jesus has two wills, a human and a divine. As the Catechism says “Christ’s human will “does not resist or oppose but rather submits to his divine and almighty will.”” (CCC 475 quoting the Third Council of Constantinople).

I would think in the case of fear of the Lord, it was reflected in His human obedience and submission to the divine will.
 
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Isaiah 11: 2
* The spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him:b

a spirit of wisdom and of understanding,

A spirit of counsel and of strength,

a spirit of knowledge and of fear of the LORD,
 
Perhaps “fear of God” does not best render the Latin “timor Dei”.

“Timor” can express, among other nuances, the loving feeling of the son who does not want to displease his father, in which feeling there is no room for dread.

Can “fear” express this as well?

You have to say it, not me 🙂
 
brown_bear said:
Can “fear” express this as well?
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I agree. The wide variety of meanings of ‘fear’ in most languages of Christianity (whether modern or ancient) are largely because of how the word was used in Hebrew: יראה yirah ‘fear’ was not just an unpleasant emotion. Very often when used in reference to God, it is distinctly positive, as it has explicit overtones of reverence, awe, respect, piety, etc. A good example is in Ezek 1:18 when the prophet speaks of the ‘tall and awesome (Hb: yirah)’ rims of the wheels.
 
In current English language usage, there’s often a distinction made between “servile fear” which is the actual fear of punishment or of some negative consequence happening to you, and “filial fear” or “holy fear” which is supposed to be the love and respect and piety for the Lord, etc. I personally don’t think the “fear” word works well even when it’s supposed to be filial fear. It doesn’t help that the colloquial expression “put the fear of God into you” generally means “scare you so bad or punish you so hard that you’ll change your behavior/ stop doing something”.

The last few decades have seen an emphasis on God’s mercy and on him being a loving father with whom we have a relationship, so using the word “fear” Is naturally at odds with most people’s idea of a loving parental relationship, especially for an adult. I find it more helpful just to use words like we should love God, respect God, show piety, be reverent, be in awe of God and his works, etc.
 
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Here, too, we use “timore servile” and “timore filiale” in the same sense you said about “fear”.

But ours is a rare use, unfortunately, limited to catechesis.

When on the street or in the office they say «Non sei timorato di Dio» - You are not God-fearing - 99 times out of 100 it is a disrespectful, sarcastic use of the word, it means “You have dedicated yourself to shamelessness, and you did very well, I fully approve of you, in the face of all the stupid bigots”
 
“God-fearing” or “Fear of God” in USA is strongly associated with certain hellfire-and-brimstone type Christian evangelical Protestant groups.

The Church since Vatican II in USA has been trying to get away from the idea of a scary God and emphasize the love and mercy of God, although some traditional Catholics don’t like this because to them it seems to downplay the reality of sin and Hell.

Fear of God is therefore something you’d probably only hear from US Catholics if it were a traditional group, or some advanced study class where people weren’t scared off by hearing the fear word.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
The Church since Vatican II in USA has been trying to get away from the idea of a scary God and emphasize the love and mercy of God, although some traditional Catholics don’t like this because to them it seems to downplay the reality of sin and Hell.
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That’s not my experience with the word. The term was emphasised.
 
You mean the term “Fear” was emphasized? Because a few decades ago they didn’t even want to talk about the Devil or anything that might “scare the children”.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
You mean the term “Fear” was emphasized? Because a few decades ago they didn’t even want to talk about the Devil or anything that might “scare the children”.
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I imagine those you mentioned blanching at this advice from the Most High.

“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luke 12:4‭-‬5 RSV

 
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AlNg said:
But how could Jesus, being God, fear God?
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There are two wills in Jesus Christ, namely, a human will and the divine will. His human will “fears” God, i.e., is perfectly subject to the divine will.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
In current English language usage, there’s often a distinction made between “servile fear” which is the actual fear of punishment or of some negative consequence happening to you, and “filial fear” or “holy fear” which is supposed to be the love and respect and piety for the Lord, etc. I personally don’t think the “fear” word works well even when it’s supposed to be filial fear. It doesn’t help that the colloquial expression “put the fear of God into you” generally means “scare you so bad or punish you so hard that you’ll change your behavior/ stop doing something”.

The last few decades have seen an emphasis on God’s mercy and on him being a loving father with whom we have a relationship, so using the word “fear” Is naturally at odds with most people’s idea of a loving parental relationship, especially for an adult. I find it more helpful just to use words like we should love God, respect God, show piety, be reverent, be in awe of God and his works, etc.
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That fear of damnation and other penalties of sin is actually good. Catechism of the Catholic Church
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52
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Vico said:
That fear of damnation and other penalties of sin is actually good.
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It’s good as an initial step, but if you stay stuck there, you will not progress spiritually.

I don’t mean this as a brag, but I passed that initial step a few years ago and would like to move on to more love of God, which doesn’t happen if I’m sitting around obsessing about sin. Perhaps for someone else, this type of thinking is useful. For me, at this point, not so much.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
It’s good as an initial step, but if you stay stuck there, you will not progress spiritually.
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I guess Jesus was wrong because that was His advice to His disciples.
Jesus said:
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luke 12:4‭-‬5 RSV
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You are truly wise and courageous when you fear the Most High and not people.
 
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