The Metamorphose of Apollos

[Ben_Masada]

Your know well that it offends us to use His name in that fashion, but you do. Should I perceive ill will here? Crusades, like any wars, kill. They are not intended to murder, as you well know being a member of the people who fought the first religious wars in recorded history, in fact wars of aggression against an enemy who had done you no injustice. Now please read what I wrote again and perhaps it will sink in. I certainly admit that the pope is human, fallible just like all of us, except when speaking with the authority of Jesus, the Christ, God’s eternal knowledge of Himself Who became flesh.
Do you understand the word “must”? Do you know what is meant by a moral imperative? Perhaps the child of Masada would do well to invest in a dictionary.

**We don’t have dictionaries with mythological terms to explain how God became flesh in Jesus. I am sorry. **

 

[Danno2281]

**We don’t have dictionaries with mythological terms to explain how God became flesh in Jesus. I am sorry. **

To call you an arrogant rascal moght be understating the case. The words mustand * imperative* should be able to be found with their meanings even in your primative circumstances. Perhaps in that library that you’ve discovered. While there, perhaps you can find some informaton on what has (or, better, has not) happened in the last 2000 years. Why no prophets? Why no further communication from Ha Shem? No more writings. Why, for so long, no possibility of living thje covenant fully, no priesthood except by presumption? Why, child of Masada, hsve your people been left bereft of all these for so long? What happened two thousand years ago that so radically changed the relationship of the Hebrew people with their God?

 

[NotWorthy]

**To NotWorthy

Okay NotWorthy, here is what I promised. The title of the book is, “The Popes and the Jews in the Meddle Ages.” by Edward A. Synan with the imprimatur of Francis Cardinal Spellman, Archbishop of NY. 1965, pages 98,99 for the chapter on Pope Innocence III and the Crusades. **

And what am I supposed to do with “The Popes and the Jews in the Meddle Ages”? I don’t have the book.

Can I ask you Ben, why did Golda Meier (I’m sure that is spelled wrong, but you should get the gist) and Israel plant 100,000 trees in Israel? Was it because of the **lack **of concern and efforts by the Pope for the Jews during WWII?

 

[NotWorthy]

Why, child of Masada, hsve your people been left bereft of all these for so long? What happened two thousand years ago that so radically changed the relationship of the Hebrew people with their God?

That is the question that every Jew must answer. The longest trial I’m aware of that was prophesied was the 70 x 7 years that Daniel foretold of Israel.

 

[NotWorthy]

**Is it the end of the world to admit that Popes are just humans like all of us? That’s all you needed to admit, and I would have left you alone. Jesus Christ! **

I think any Catholic can answer this. The Popes are just humans like all of us. Why is that even in question, Ben? Has anyone claimed otherwise?

 

[Psychotheosophy]

I am talking about Judaism. There is no such a thing as God begetting a son with a woman on earth. I am saying what Exodus 4:22,23 says that the Messiah is son of God. A Tribe God! I don’t think you are being serious. Otherwise, it’s too embarrassing.

Regarding the relation between a Father and a son being the one of obedience and love, that’s exactly what it is as far as Judaism is concern.

Now, your avoiding questions.

I’m very serious.

There is a group that considers itself as God.
They go by many names.
Who have their own way of world domination.

So let me ask you again,

Are you saying that a Tribe is God, yes or no?
And
Are you a member of that tribe?

And again,

Considering all that we have discussed,
How would you interpret Tobit 12:9-10?

 

[Danno2281]

Now, your avoiding questions.

I’m very serious.

There is a group that considers itself as God.
They go by many names.
Who have their own way of world domination.

So let me ask you again,

Are you saying that a Tribe is God, yes or no?
And
Are you a member of that tribe?

And again,

Considering all that we have discussed,
How would you interpret Tobit 12:9-10?

Tobit is not in the recognized Hebrew canon, established at Jamnia (Yevna) ca. 90 AD, so he doesn’t recognize it as scripture.

 

[NotWorthy]

Tobit is not in the recognized Hebrew canon, established at Jamnia (Yevna) ca. 90 AD, so he doesn’t recognize it as scripture.

A small point of contention… Jamnia rejected Tobit and the other Deuterocanonicals and the New Testament writings, but it did not establish a Hebrew canon. I don’t believe that this was done until roughly the 14th century.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I think any Catholic can answer this. The Popes are just humans like all of us. Why is that even in question, Ben? Has anyone claimed otherwise?

Every Catholic claims it otherwise by claiming his infallibility
no matter how or when he speaks. No human being can be infallible. Only God is.

 

[Ben_Masada]

And what am I supposed to do with “The Popes and the Jews in the Meddle Ages”? I don’t have the book.

Can I ask you Ben, why did Golda Meier (I’m sure that is spelled wrong, but you should get the gist) and Israel plant 100,000 trees in Israel? Was it because of the **lack **of concern and efforts by the Pope for the Jews during WWII?

**Do you know something NotWorthy? Believe it or not. I had your answer in my mind almost to the word. “Very good! Now, how can I verify if I don’t have the book?” That’s why I don’t bother documenting any book I read to report as some kind of source. Or this happens, or the source is discarded as an opinion of another man. Therefore, I prefer to quote the Scriptures, and hope that the prospect check the quotation or prove me wrong.

As for Golda, I don’t really know why she planted all those trees but it did make Israel a lot nicer.**

 

[Danno2281]

Every Catholic claims it otherwise by claiming his infallibility
no matter how or when he speaks. No human being can be infallible. Only God is.

To call you disingenuous would be too kind. You have been told what is meant by papal infallibility, and the example of the writers of the books of your scriptures was given to you as another case of humans acting infallibly by God’s power. You are now revealed as another bar Kosiba, because you do not seek the truth, but to sow discord and confusion. Your self-serving demeanor is offensive to all honest men.

 

[Danno2281]

Therefore, I prefer to quote the Scriptures, and hope that the prospect check the quotation or prove me wrong.
.

And just when in your life have you hoped to be proved wrong? You refuse to admit, even in the face of the testimony of your own sages, that you could possibly be wrong. You are a charlatan.

 

[Ben_Masada]

To call you an arrogant rascal moght be understating the case. The words mustand * imperative* should be able to be found with their meanings even in your primative circumstances. Perhaps in that library that you’ve discovered. While there, perhaps you can find some informaton on what has (or, better, has not) happened in the last 2000 years. Why no prophets? Why no further communication from Ha Shem? No more writings. Why, for so long, no possibility of living thje covenant fully, no priesthood except by presumption? Why, child of Masada, hsve your people been left bereft of all these for so long? What happened two thousand years ago that so radically changed the relationship of the Hebrew people with their God?

**Danno, you can come right down your high horse because nothing has chaged in our relationship with God, except for our Temple which was destroyed.

The very same thing happened with the destruction of the first Temple by Nebukadnezzar and we spent 70 years without Temple. At the end of the exile the sin that had caused the exile had ended, the guilt had been erased, and Evelasting Justice had returned to us again, till the next catastrophe. (Dan. 9:24)

But we had about 400 years of normality; I mean, different struggles. Now, after a little longer exile we are back and everything is all right again. As soon as we rebuild our Temple, the rest of the things will return to normal.

Now, to properly answer your question about what happened 2000 years ago that changed our condition to last a little longer, is that a powerful nation of Gentiles took our Country and crucified thousands of our brothers. This is before you repeat the Pauline rhetoric that it had anyting to do with one Jew in particular. **

 

[NotWorthy]

**Do you know something NotWorthy? Believe it or not. I had your answer in my mind almost to the word. “Very good! Now, how can I verify if I don’t have the book?” That’s why I don’t bother documenting any book I read to report as some kind of source. Or this happens, or the source is discarded as an opinion of another man. Therefore, I prefer to quote the Scriptures, and hope that the prospect check the quotation or prove me wrong.**No, its just that most people will cite their source, and then include an excerpt to convey what in the world they are talking about. I assumed you were going to do that. But sadly, you seem to be losing patience with me.

As for Golda, I don’t really know why she planted all those trees but it did make Israel a lot nicer.

Well that… and also to acknowledge the 100,000+ Jews that Israel claims Pope Pius saved during WWII through the efforts of the Catholic Church. It seems that Israel was wanting to show sincere gratitude to Pope Pius and the Church for all the things they did to help their brother Jews through those awful times against the Nazi regime.

I thought it was a nice, sincere gesture, my brother.

 

[Danno2281]

**Danno, you can come right down your high horse because nothing has chaged in our relationship with God, except for our Temple which was destroyed.

The very same thing happened with the destruction of the first Temple by Nebukadnezzar and we spent 70 years without Temple. At the end of the exile the sin that had caused the exile had ended, the guilt had been erased, and Evelasting Justice had returned to us again, till the next catastrophe. (Dan. 9:24)

But we had about 400 years of normality; I mean, different struggles. Now, after a little longer exile we are back and everything is all right again. As soon as we rebuild our Temple, the rest of the things will return to normal.

Now, to properly answer your question about what happened 2000 years ago that changed our condition to last a little longer, is that a powerful nation of Gentiles took our Country and crucified thousands of our brothers. This is before you repeat the Pauline rhetoric that it had anyting to do with one Jew in particular. **

 

[Danno2281]

**Danno, you can come right down your high horse because nothing has chaged in our relationship with God, except for our Temple which was destroyed.

The very same thing happened with the destruction of the first Temple by Nebukadnezzar and we spent 70 years without Temple. At the end of the exile the sin that had caused the exile had ended, the guilt had been erased, and Evelasting Justice had returned to us again, till the next catastrophe. (Dan. 9:24)

But we had about 400 years of normality; I mean, different struggles. Now, after a little longer exile we are back and everything is all right again. As soon as we rebuild our Temple, the rest of the things will return to normal.

Now, to properly answer your question about what happened 2000 years ago that changed our condition to last a little longer, is that a powerful nation of Gentiles took our Country and crucified thousands of our brothers. This is before you repeat the Pauline rhetoric that it had anyting to do with one Jew in particular. **

Perhaps you might look at a litle history: Moses - 1300 BC - God gives Israel promised land. God chastises, but defends Israel, using her neighbors to chastise her. Now, for more time than all of her existence in that land, she lacks the encouagement of prophets and writings inspired by God, encouragements still given to her in her earlier chastisements. What great wrong transpired to bring about so dreadful a chastisement? A little longer, you say. Your “little longer” is longer that the whole time from Moses to Jesus! What great wrong have you done! The first temple was destroyed because of the innocent blood spilled by Manassah (2Kgs:24,4), but it was allowed to be rebuilt. What even greater crime brought aout the destruction of the second temple, a temple that has not been rebuilt? There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Danno2281]

**Danno, you can come right down your high horse because nothing has chaged in our relationship with God, except for our Temple which was destroyed.

The very same thing happened with the destruction of the first Temple by Nebukadnezzar and we spent 70 years without Temple. At the end of the exile the sin that had caused the exile had ended, the guilt had been erased, and Evelasting Justice had returned to us again, till the next catastrophe. (Dan. 9:24)
**

No, it is not at all the very same thing. It is another thing of immensly greater proportions, as the penalty for it clearly shows. 70 years is hardly 2 millenia.

 

[Ben_Masada]

NotWorthy:
No, its just that most people will cite their source, and then include an excerpt to convey what in the world they are talking about. I assumed you were going to do that. But sadly, you seem to be losing patience with me.Well that… and also to acknowledge the 100,000+ Jews that Israel claims Pope Pius saved during WWII through the efforts of the Catholic Church. It seems that Israel was wanting to show sincere gratitude to Pope Pius and the Church for all the things they did to help their brother Jews through those awful times against the Nazi regime.

I thought it was a nice, sincere gesture, my brother.

Yes, NotWorthy, I suspected where you were coming from. I visited the Park of the Righteous Gentiles. I held myself back from pronouncing some of the words above in your post, because the plate at the entrance of the Park is in honor to the Righteous Gentiles, who went out of their way to save Jews during the Holocaust. I don’t recall to have seen any private mention of the Pope. The problem with me is that the number of those who didn’t get rescued was so catastrophicly high that I need glasses to see those who saved some. Europe had hardly more than six million Jews.

 

[Ben_Masada]

No, it is not at all the very same thing. It is another thing of immensly greater proportions, as the penalty for it clearly shows. 70 years is hardly 2 millenia.

**What’s the big deal? The difference in time is cancelled out by the fact that the first time we got exiled to one corner of the world: Babylon. The second time around we got exiled to the four corners of the world. **

 

[Danno2281]

**What’s the big deal? The difference in time is cancelled out by the fact that the first time we got exiled to one corner of the world: Babylon. The second time around we got exiled to the fours corners of the world. **

Whoa! The expiation of the guilt was achieved in 70 years the first time, We know what the guilt was. What is the guilt that brought about the second destruction? Obviously far greater. And why would an Almighty God be subject to the human conditions you suggest? And just for the record, there were far more Jews in the diaspora than in Palestine in 70 AD.