The Metamorphosis of the Catholic Mass

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Fogny

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There have been a number of threads about people and whole parishes exhibiting new gestures and practises that are not specified in the GIRM, who is infecting the Catholic Faith. If you take as truth what people are now saying what these changes are, it sounds like evangelical protestants and charasmatics have invaded the Catholic church, or we have a bunch of the faithfull two timing.

Fogny
 
Please support this statement with official liturgical documentation
 
Or, we have a bunch of arrogant, prideful Americans who think they know better than the Church.

Then there are those who claim if it’s not specifically prohibited in the GIRM, it’s allowed. I guess if I wanted to start chewing my neighbor’s toenails during the Our Father because it helps me build a feeling of community, that would be allowed.

Old Scratch probably had a lot of “good” ideas about how to better worship God back in the day, before he got booted out of heaven. We see where his pride got him. :bigyikes:
 
We are not talking about rediculous situations—if the orans PRAYER posture is forbidden because it is not specifically instructed, then the folded hands prayer posture is also forbidden for the same reason.
 
Who are you to claim that chewing my neighbor’s toenails is ridiculous?

It might be ridiculous to you. To me, it might be my small part in building a caring Catholic faith community.
 
BTW–There are certain gestures which are fairly common that I personally do not like and would not use, but I see no official documentation which forbids them.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Who are you to claim that chewing my neighbor’s toenails is ridiculous?

It might be ridiculous to you. To me, it might be my small part in building a caring Catholic faith community.
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You might want to run that by someone in charge.

As my Pastor says so often when someone tries to use a rediculous situation —be reasonable.
 
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Mysty101:
Please support this statement with official liturgical documentation
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What will that prove?
 
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Mysty101:
That you are not slandering your brothers & sisters in Christ
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Could you please give documentation as to the slander of any INDIVIDUAL here on the forums?
 
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Fogny:
There have been a number of threads about people and whole parishes exhibiting new gestures and practises that are not specified in the GIRM, who is infecting the Catholic Faith. If you take as truth what people are now saying what these changes are, it sounds like evangelical protestants and charasmatics have invaded the Catholic church, or we have a bunch of the faithfull two timing.

Fogny
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In the “Spirit of Vatican II” some parishes have begun to try to out do eachother to be more gregarious.
In my Vicariate, there are 12 parishes. 11 of them are this way. One is more traditional, mine.
They are bleeding parishioners and we have doubled our families in three years.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Or, we have a bunch of arrogant, prideful Americans who think they know better than the Church.

Then there are those who claim if it’s not specifically prohibited in the GIRM, it’s allowed. I guess if I wanted to start chewing my neighbor’s toenails during the Our Father because it helps me build a feeling of community, that would be allowed.

Old Scratch probably had a lot of “good” ideas about how to better worship God back in the day, before he got booted out of heaven. We see where his pride got him. :bigyikes:
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It had to happen…

At Mass this AM, tourists were on both my right and left. Just before the Lord’s prayer I assumed the “praying hands” posture and closed my eyes. I felt the woman to my right grab onto my wrist. As I opened my eyes, the woman on my left grabbed hold of my other wrist…

I just closed my eyes and focused on the prayer, although there were still thoughts running through my head about wishing to take a picture for this forum.
 
Pariah Pirana:
It had to happen…

At Mass this AM, tourists were on both my right and left. Just before the Lord’s prayer I assumed the “praying hands” posture and closed my eyes. I felt the woman to my right grab onto my wrist. As I opened my eyes, the woman on my left grabbed hold of my other wrist…

I just closed my eyes and focused on the prayer, although there were still thoughts running through my head about wishing to take a picture for this forum.
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I take it, you did not take a bite of the apple.

Fogny
 
Or, we have a bunch of arrogant, prideful Americans who think they know better than the Church.
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You are on track with this thought. Let’s pray together as Catholics at Mass.

Christ’s Peace
 
The orans posture is not forbidden by the Church.

In fact, the rubrics do not govern liturgical postures of the faithful sitting in the pews. Popular custom usually governs this.

For ministers in the sanctuary, it’s different . . .
 
Pariah Pirana:
I just closed my eyes and focused on the prayer, although there were still thoughts running through my head about wishing to take a picture for this forum.
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If you are letting this forum distract your mind at Mass… letting it be a source of unwarranted “pride”… then perhaps you should reflect on whether your time here is being appropriately spent.
 
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rcn:
If you are letting this forum distract your mind at Mass… letting it be a source of unwarranted “pride”… then perhaps you should reflect on whether your time here is being appropriately spent.
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Judgemental are we.

Fogny
 
Dr. Bombay:
Or, we have a bunch of arrogant, prideful Americans who think they know better than the Church.
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:yawn:

Ah yes, blame the Americans. All I know is that I never saw more whackey stuff by both priests and the laity until I moved to Canada (and to Catholic Quebec, no less). Over memorial day my wife and I saw a very orthodox couple at our parish and we asked them if they were Americans–they were stunned and answered yes. They did not know that their “orthodox” postures marked them out as Americans.
Dr. Bombay:
Then there are those who claim if it’s not specifically prohibited in the GIRM, it’s allowed. I guess if I wanted to start chewing my neighbor’s toenails during the Our Father because it helps me build a feeling of community, that would be allowed.
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As someone else pointed out, this is a ridiculous example–but of course it IS forbidden by the GIRM because you are required to stand and pray the Our Father, both of which presumably you would not be doing if you were chewing your neighbors toe nails. Moreover, you would not be able to take communion because you will have broken the hour fast.

But, let us return to the planet of rational discourse. A great many pious and acceptable behaviors are not made explicit in the GIRM. Is it an innovation to pray with hands held together or folded? Is it wrong to close one’s eys during prayer? To open one’s eyes? Is it wrong to pray the rosary? Is it wrong for a woman to choose to wear a head covering?

Look, I don’t like things like the hand-holding during the Our Father, but I am not convinced they violate any liturgical rules, or that such “innovations” are inherently bad. And if they are, then the Church has an obligation to make explicit that such behavior is forbidden.
 
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