The Mid-Mass Social

[Dr.Bombay]

It seems many of us have Christmas Eve horror stories.

Personally, the mid-Mass social was the least offensive thing about the Mass I attended. And it will be relatively easy to rectify this problem once the Church gets around to supressing the congregational Sign of Peace and restores it to a strictly symbolic, spiritual gesture. And make no mistake, it will be supressed. And soon, too. (“Soon” being Church time, not human time.)

The real problem in the Church today is a complete lack of reverence within our church buildings. How do you restore that? Don’t ask me. I know it won’t be done by a Papal Encyclical. Or a “strong suggestion” by a Curial Cardinal. I despair that it’s even possible to restore reverence.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Dr. Bombay:

The real problem in the Church today is a complete lack of reverence within our church buildings. How do you restore that? Don’t ask me. I know it won’t be done by a Papal Encyclical. Or a “strong suggestion” by a Curial Cardinal. I despair that it’s even possible to restore reverence.

I think you nailed it here with the lack of reverence with much talking and noise inside of parishes. It still comes back to whether people understand that what is up on the altar, or in the tabernacle. As they are talking about the forthcoming dinner roast and trimmings, the Body of Christ lay on that altar. We should be contemplating him, not talking about (or having to listen to) everything but that for several long minutes. It is like going to a movie theatre and 2/3 of the show engaging in off-movie talks loud enough to prevent others from engaging in the movie itself. In this case, we aren’t talking about a movie, but the pure worship of God.

ALL:

After 40-something years of attending contemporary, noisy parishes (before, after, and during Mass), I have just encountered two parishes where silence rules. It was so different for me to experience that silence in a church it was stunning the first day I walked into Assumption Grotto. The silence at Ss. Cyril & Methodius in a Detroit suburb is also deadening. Both parishes have signs at the entrance asking people to be silent out of respect for the Blessed Sacrament and those praying. At 43, it is the first time I’ve seen this. Why?

If you closed your eyes in either parish, you would think you were all alone with God. That, my dear friends, is what we are suppose to encounter. It is in that sacred silence that we have a chance to connect far deeper with God than we can through any human contact or experience. Is is in that sacred silence that we discover God himself. Sure, God can be found in other people just by virtue of the fact that he created and sustains all of us. However, we should all be seeking the face of God in the place he can most readily prefers - sacred silence. It is here that he speaks to our hearts and moves us. It is in silence that we respond and worship him with our being. It is in holy silence that God can pull us into mystical union with him, the choir of angels, the saints, and all who worship him the world over. Imagine shaking hands with all of creation in an act of worship and adoration taking place at a much grander scale than any one building can hold. No physical contact or spoken words are required.

That is what people missed when they were talking about the dinner roast and the pair of pants that needed to be taken in. Unfortunately, when they were talking about these things in Church, during Mass, they stole the silence away that I yearned for during Holy Mass and many others peppered between the yakkers.

All my life I have attended those noisy contemporary Masses and for the first time in my life, I have experienced the most solemn, reverent, and reserved Masses over an 8 month period. For the first time, I don’t get bored, yet the Masses are far more simple and basic. There is no fanfare, there is no talking other than the responses and songs and what I discovered was the hidden treasure of the Mass itself. I had no coaching, I had no one discussing traditional or progressive and couldn’t have told you the difference between them. I could not have told you what a TLM is, but I can tell you now that I know why people attend them. They are guaranteed sacred silence, solemnity, reverence, and reservedness that enables them to seek the face of God in the Mass.

The Mass is not a place to gather for social purposes. It is a place to worship God. It is the one hour per week that our full attention should be on him, not his creation, not the people next to us, not even our children (aside from true needs). For those that get it, by the grace of God, they will discover a mere morsal of heaven because in heaven there is nothing greater to behold than God himself. In heaven, you will not adore anything or anyone greater than you adore God himself - not your spouse, your mother, your child.

What I am trying to say is that our priests and our bishops need to invite us to participate in holy silence. We should be able to hear this from the pulpit and see it written about in the bulletin. That is how ignorance is corrected in a truly pastoral way. It is charitable to teach and uncharitable to let people behave like they are in the mall.

Save the off-Mass conversations for the church hall.

And once again, I do not condemn the sign of peace and when a priest invites the congregation to extend it, I offer and accept to either side of me, in front, and in back. And, it is the TALKING I condemn, not the sign of peace, even though my preference today is to skip right past contuing the Eucharistic Prayer, which is addressed to God, not the people.

 

[YinYangMom]

Lux_et_veritas:

Well, at this other parish, which was my childhood parish - one I’ve attended for most of my 43 year life, I couldn’t believe the sheer chaos that took place. It had not changed, rather it was me, who took up a different environment, then came home only to be shocked by the practice, as if seeing it for the first time.

This happened to me several years back when I returned to my alma mater elementary school parish for mass. Now at the time, I was not as I am now with regard to the magesterium nor the understanding of the fullness of the liturgy. But, the change was dramatic enough from the way mass was conducted when I was a child there that it really threw me off-guard.

The sign of peace ‘meet-n-greet’ was bad enough, and similar to how you described it, but it was the Our Father which offended me most. I was used to the holding of hands - in one’s own row - but here, they crossed the center and side aisles in order to join hands left to right across the church - and they did it while the priest was still saying his part of the prayer leading up to the Our Father! I found it so rude that I truly had to struggle to return peace in my heart toward those around me so that I may partake of the Eucharist.

I have not been back to that church since. I don’t know if it’s changed yet again, though I pray it did. But, I could not walk away angry because there was such a fellowship present in the parish which was not there when I was growing up. I knew the houses in the area had changed hands and demographics changed. Apparently the church became a reflection of these newcomers to the parish boundaries and it was working. Everyone in that church was alive in Christ, there was no mistaking that, and that remained with me always. I had not experienced that at other churches. So, while it was not my cup of tea, the liturgy itself was true to the magesterium so I could not bemoan the parish which had fostered such love and unity. These sheep were different, for certain. Praise be God that their shepherd cares and nurtures them as he does.

I go home again this summer. I may stop in to see if there are any more changes. It’ll be interesting to note.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Diane, I have experienced all the same things in my parish. The apparent lack of reverence at the sign of peace is not limited to the times when just the C & E Catholics attend Mass. It is an ongoing problem. People just don’t get it, and they won’t until the priests crack down and start educating the faithful. I think it is a problem of ignorance, and it is up to the priests to do something about it.

You are fortunate to be able to attend Mass at Assumption Grotto. I wish more priests would speak out and educate people on matters of faith. (I bet you don’t have any girls with half of their shirts missing attending those Masses!)

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

paramedicgirl:

Diane, I have experienced all the same things in my parish. The apparent lack of reverence at the sign of peace is not limited to the times when just the C & E Catholics attend Mass. It is an ongoing problem. People just don’t get it, and they won’t until the priests crack down and start educating the faithful. I think it is a problem of ignorance, and it is up to the priests to do something about it.

You are fortunate to be able to attend Mass at Assumption Grotto. I wish more priests would speak out and educate people on matters of faith. (I bet you don’t have any girls with half of their shirts missing attending those Masses!)

Here is just one example of how we are taught. This was in the parish bulletin the Sunday before my pastor took his monthlong vacation in the summer. While it sounds harsh, we all chuckled at it…then looked inward to examen our own behavior. Many of us admitted to each other we could be more respectful. And, this parish is already highly reverent, but the priests are always raising the bar. They foster the reverence; they talk about reverence.

This subject leads me to a little pastoral scolding. On Sundays, after the noon Mass, there is in good weather a procession with the Blessed Sacrament to the Grotto where Benediction is held. While I am touched by the piety of many who kneel along the route as the Holy Sacrament is being carried, I am also horrified to note some people talking or walking about oblivious to the reality that it is the Lord Himself who is passing by. Can it be that there are some parishioners and Grotto-goers who do not yet know or believe that Jesus Christ is the Blessed Sacrament that the priest is holding in his hands? I’d be ashamed to admit such ignorance on the part of our people. I will take refuge in the thought that these must be visitors from Saint Suburbia who simply don’t know. But there is some doubt in my mind.

Well, now you have been reprimanded and can be self-righteously indignant and say to yourself, ‘Boy! am I ever glad he’s going away. Good riddance!’ Enjoy the next few weeks. See you in August.

Of course we were not glad he was gone and there was no good riddance. We love the man the same way children love their father. Then again, a good father will always balance the praise with the reprimands. I later told a fellow parishioner that if the associate didn’t give us some good hard food for thought in the pastor’s column while he was away, I’d feel neglected. He did a good job, writing about a difficult subject a few weeks later.

Also, so that people understand the “St. Suburbia” comment…

Our parish is the target of many outsiders who come for the beautiful experience. It is wonderful to see them, but just as I was ignorant when I first came to Grotto, so are they and they are real easy to pick out. It takes time for people to acclimate and learn how to behave reverently in church and this is another reason why these things are raised so often - because of the many visitors and new people, such as myself. The priests understand the need for us to be taught and they take the time to teach. I’ve only been there 8 months and I’ve heard at least 4-5 times, if not many more, subjects surrounding reverence in Church - from postures explained to the need for silence. I am very perceptive so I did not stand out when I first came, other than the fact that I was a new face. When I first came in, I just kind of followed along, as hollow a gesture as it was. But it didn’t take but a few days for true reverence to build. And, I believe this would happen if priests began to talk about it from the pulpit.

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear Lux et veritas / Light and truth,

I know where you’re coming from. * nods agreement *

Posting respectful signs and saying a few words from the pulpit just before Mass really DOES help. Here’s another example:

When you walk into the Incarnate Word chapel for the Healing Service on Wednesday night, you immediately see signs posted which say, “Silence please … people are talking to God.”

Immediately before the start of the Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet leading up to the Mass, Sister Monica will announce from the pulpit words such as follows: “Please realize that Jesus is present in the tabernacle and that we are here for prayer, not to socialize with our neighbor. Also remember that this is a healing service. Some of the people who come here suffer from serious illness and require an atmosphere of quiet. After we have finished the Rosary and Chaplet, we may have to wait for Father to arrive and prepare for Mass. During this time, you may wish to sign the prayer request book or read through the hymns we’ll be singing tonight.”

It should be noted that this Healing Service is known for being charismatic. There are plenty of touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy people all eager to shake hands at the Sign of Peace … the good thing being, a quiet and reverent attitude is maintained along with the charismatic spirit of enthusiasm.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

the phoenix:

Dear Lux et veritas / Light and truth,

I know where you’re coming from. * nods agreement *

Posting respectful signs and saying a few words from the pulpit just before Mass really DOES help. Here’s another example:

When you walk into the Incarnate Word chapel for the Healing Service on Wednesday night, you immediately see signs posted which say, “Silence please … people are talking to God.”

Immediately before the start of the Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet leading up to the Mass, Sister Monica will announce from the pulpit words such as follows: “Please realize that Jesus is present in the tabernacle and that we are here for prayer, not to socialize with our neighbor. Also remember that this is a healing service. Some of the people who come here suffer from serious illness and require an atmosphere of quiet. After we have finished the Rosary and Chaplet, we may have to wait for Father to arrive and prepare for Mass. During this time, you may wish to sign the prayer request book or read through the hymns we’ll be singing tonight.”

It should be noted that this Healing Service is known for being charismatic. There are plenty of touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy people all eager to shake hands at the Sign of Peace … the good thing being, a quiet and reverent attitude is maintained along with the charismatic spirit of enthusiasm.

~~ the phoenix

Precisely on the issue of quiet. It doesn’t matter if it is a traditional parish, a contemporary parish or one that is charismatic. Reverence is as reverence does. Ditto with respect, not only for Jesus on the Altar, in the Tabernacle, or just having basic respect for the person next to you who is trying to pray in the solitude of the Church.

I like the “Silence please…people are talking to God” sign. There are probably 100 ways to bring the need for silence and reverence in the Church to the attention of others.

This is my whole point is that year after year there is no discussion in many of these parishes. Sometimes a little pastoral admonishment is healthy. But most pastors have been brainwashed by some kind of laid back 70’s psychology that leads them to believe we might run the other way if they do so. I say, let it rip, Father. We deserve it now and then.

In my parish we get admonished several times yearly. It may not be everyone who needs it, and there are always visitors who benefit, as well as new parishioners. You can bet the priest delivering the words has witnessed something for more than one or two weeks, and more than one person creating the offense in order to say something. My pastor did just this when he provided the “pastoral scolding” on the lack of reverence some were showing the Blessed Sacrament as it goes by in procession each Sunday to our outdoor Grotto for Benediction during the good weather months. People also forget that he is up in the choir loft every Sunday, directing the choir. When people get up to go to the restroom with regularity right smack during the consecration, it is noticeable. That, along with a few people moving about prompted him to admonish us in a sermon this summer about how to behave during Mass, in particular, during the consecration. He says we should not even flinch at that point of the Mass, much less make it a habit to head to the restroom. It’s hard to imagine even someone with bladder control problems not holding off until just after consecration or going just before, outside of being sick or something.

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear Lux et veritas,

Wow. My jaw literally dropped when I came to the part in your post where you said,

When people get up to go to the restroom with regularity right smack during the consecration, it is noticeable.

Just when you think nothing new can surprise you!

As for priests taking the tough love approach, the priest at the indult Latin Mass I sometimes attend once gave a homily of the sort that not even my mother had ever heard given in her whole life! The priest actually suggested that we needed to become more humble. He went on to say that even though Lent was a couple weeks away, he wanted each one of us to practice a special penance for one week. And he was serious.

As for admonishment, of course I agree with you that when it is done to increase charity … as in, showing respectful silence in the Presence of God and to your neighbors who wish to pray in peace … it is a spiritual work of mercy.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

the phoenix:

Dear Lux et veritas,

Wow. My jaw literally dropped when I came to the part in your post where you said,

Just when you think nothing new can surprise you!

As for priests taking the tough love approach, the priest at the indult Latin Mass I sometimes attend once gave a homily of the sort that not even my mother had ever heard given in her whole life! The priest actually suggested that we needed to become more humble. He went on to say that even though Lent was a couple weeks away, he wanted each one of us to practice a special penance for one week. And he was serious.

As for admonishment, of course I agree with you that when it is done to increase charity … as in, showing respectful silence in the Presence of God and to your neighbors who wish to pray in peace … it is a spiritual work of mercy.

~~ the phoenix

Well said (in red).

 

[Orionthehunter]

First of all, I think that what Lux described in the OP was a liturgical abuse. The Sign of Peace is to be reserved and reverrant as we personally and with joy extend to those AROUND us the Sign of Peace. In Masses primarily comprised of younger people or a specific group (ala a Mass said at a religious retreat), it might linger and “around” might be a slightly larger area. And maybe Christmas Eve Mass where those in attendence includes people who have fallen away or aren’t Catholic but attending with family members qualifies for this broader definition of “around”. However, I say again, what Lux described goes beyond what is appropriate. If it were in my parish (as opposed to just visiting), I would make a point to have a conversation w/ the Pastor.

This being said, I want to touch on a few itmes in Lux’s post and my comments are in CAPS (but I’m not yelling ):

From Lux_et_veritas: I think you nailed it here with the lack of reverence with much talking and noise inside of parishes. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON’T NECESSARILY IMPOSE OUR DEFINITION OF REVERENCE ON OTHERS. FOR YOUNG PEOPLE JOYFULLNESS IS PROFOUND REVERENCE WHILE FOR ANOTHER SILENCE IS REVERANCE.

After 40-something years of attending contemporary, noisy parishes (before, after, and during Mass), I have just encountered two parishes where silence rules. It was so different for me to experience that silence in a church it was stunning the first day I walked into Assumption Grotto. The silence at Ss. Cyril & Methodius in a Detroit suburb is also deadening. Both parishes have signs at the entrance asking people to be silent out of respect for the Blessed Sacrament and those praying. At 43, it is the first time I’ve seen this. Why? POSSIBLY BECUASE THEY HAVE PERPETUAL ADORATION GOING ON ALL THE TIME. OR POSSIBLY THEY AREN’T A PARISH W/ ALOT OF YOUNG FAMILIES OR A SCHOOL ATTACHED.

If you closed your eyes in either parish, you would think you were all alone with God. That, my dear friends, is what we are suppose to encounter. It is in that sacred silence that we have a chance to connect far deeper with God than we can through any human contact or experience. I TOTALLY AGREE IN EUCHARISTIC ADORTION BUT MASS IS NOT ADORATION. IT IS A COMMUNAL WORSHIP THAT WILL INCLUDE CRYING BABIES, TODDLERS WITH SHORT ATTENTION SPANS, TEENS WHO LOVE EXPRESSING THIER PRAISE IN SONGS THEY IDENTIFY WITH.

The Mass is not a place to gather for social purposes. It is a place to worship God. It is the one hour per week that our full attention should be on him, not his creation, not the people next to us, not even our children (aside from true needs). AND THIS IS THE POINT THAT I DISAGREE WITH MOST. AGAIN THE MASS IS OUR COMMUNAL WORSHIP. IT ISN’T A PRIVATE DEVOTION OR EUCHARISTIC ADORATION. WHEN WE ARE AT MASS, **WE ARE CALLED TO FULLY ENCOUNTER CHRIST ** IN FOUR WAYS:

1. IN THE CELEBRANT PRIEST.
2. IN THE LIVING WORD DURING THE LITURGY OF THE WORD.
3. IN THOSE AROUND US AT THE MASS. THEY ARE TO BE INCLUDED IN OUR PRAYERS, PRAISE AND WORSHIP. WE ARE TO SEE CHRIST IN THOSE AROUND US AND MAKE OURSELVES AVAILABLE SUCH THAT OUR FELLOW WORSHIPPERS CAN SEE CHRIST IN US.
4. AND PRE-EMINENTLY (BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY AS LUX ASSERTS) IN THE EUCHARIST.

And once again, I do not condemn the sign of peace and when a priest invites the congregation to extend it, I offer and accept to either side of me, in front, and in back. And, it is the TALKING I condemn, not the sign of peace, even though my preference today is to skip right past contuing the Eucharistic Prayer, which is addressed to God, not the people. I APOLOGIZE FOR MY SARCASM HERE. HOWEVER, FOR ONE TO DESIRE EXPELLING THIS DIMENSION OF CHRIST BEING PRESENT TO US (THE SIGN OF PEACE) IS ANALOGOUS TO SAYING “WHY DON’T WE JUST SKIP THE LITURGY OF THE WORD.” OUR FELLOW PARISHIONERS ARE VITAL COMPONENTS OF THE MASS.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

The congregational Sign of Peace is optional and can be skipped entirely at the discretion of the celebrating priest. The Liturgy of the Word is not optional.

 

[Elzee]

I’ve posted this story before, but I think it’s worth repeating. We have an awesome priest assigned to a school in our area. Young, a great speaker, extremely orthodox - the kids LOVE him. He actually teaches Catholic doctrine with no apologies. He encourages frequent confession - imagine that - and the kids LOVE him!! We need more priests like him. At one Mass he pointed out that he would give the kids ‘one chance’ to get the sign of peace correct. ‘This is not about the latest news in YOUR life - it is about extending CHRIST’S peace to each other. If you can’t do this in an appropriate and reverent manner, we will omit this extension (he meant the congregational sign of peace) for the rest of the school year.’ That’s all that needed to be said. The kids have been great ever since.

 

[netmilsmom]

Orionthehunter:

After 40-something years of attending contemporary, noisy parishes (before, after, and during Mass), I have just encountered two parishes where silence rules. It was so different for me to experience that silence in a church it was stunning the first day I walked into Assumption Grotto. The silence at Ss. Cyril & Methodius in a Detroit suburb is also deadening. Both parishes have signs at the entrance asking people to be silent out of respect for the Blessed Sacrament and those praying. At 43, it is the first time I’ve seen this. Why? POSSIBLY BECUASE THEY HAVE PERPETUAL ADORATION GOING ON ALL THE TIME. OR POSSIBLY THEY AREN’T A PARISH W/ ALOT OF YOUNG FAMILIES OR A SCHOOL ATTACHED.

:crying:
You were at my parish and didn’t PM me?
I am crushed!

We do not have perpetual adoration, we have a majority young familes with multiple children (I’m unusual with only two), we have no school (Fr. Ben is working on it, say a prayer for us) but we have a HUGE homeschooling community. When we get our homeschoolers together, we fill the hall.

The difference is that our children are taught from a young age that this is not party time. Families bring the children from birth, start in the cry room and move to the main where the kids are given Catholic books and Magnifikids magazines. If one of them misbehaves, the father will take that child out of the church to be held, not set down. Because children are taught early and consistantly, the youngest of them are quiet and respectful.

I have taken my five year old to The Divine Mercy devotion on Wednesday afternoon. That is a full hour of prayer. She is given crayons and paper and is totally quiet. Her eight year old sister participates fully.

Children only give you what you expect of them.

And as for this…

1. IN THOSE AROUND US AT THE MASS. THEY ARE TO BE INCLUDED IN OUR PRAYERS, PRAISE AND WORSHIP. WE ARE TO SEE CHRIST IN THOSE AROUND US AND MAKE OURSELVES AVAILABLE SUCH THAT OUR FELLOW WORSHIPPERS CAN SEE CHRIST IN US.

That happens in our church hall after. Almost every week there is some way for the parishioners to get together (Bagel sales, pancake breakfasts etc.) Every week the Slovak people get together after the 11:00am.
We pray hard and play hard but know when each is appropriate!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Elzee:

I’ve posted this story before, but I think it’s worth repeating. We have an awesome priest assigned to a school in our area. Young, a great speaker, extremely orthodox - the kids LOVE him. He actually teaches Catholic doctrine with no apologies. He encourages frequent confession - imagine that - and the kids LOVE him!! We need more priests like him. At one Mass he pointed out that he would give the kids ‘one chance’ to get the sign of peace correct. ‘This is not about the latest news in YOUR life - it is about extending CHRIST’S peace to each other. If you can’t do this in an appropriate and reverent manner, we will omit this extension (he meant the congregational sign of peace) for the rest of the school year.’ That’s all that needed to be said. The kids have been great ever since.

I love it and this is what I’m talking about. That priest taught those kids how to behave properly during that part of the Mass. You don’t have to be an adult to know that it suffices to turn to your neighbor, shake their hand, or hug if you prefer, and say, “Peace of the Lord with you” or something similar. And, that’s it. Go back to quiet reflection. Don’t start laughing and joking about what’s going on outside of Mass.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Orionthehunter:

First of all, I think that what Lux described in the OP was a liturgical abuse. The Sign of Peace is to be reserved and reverrant as we personally and with joy extend to those AROUND us the Sign of Peace. In Masses primarily comprised of younger people or a specific group (ala a Mass said at a religious retreat), it might linger and “around” might be a slightly larger area. And maybe Christmas Eve Mass where those in attendence includes people who have fallen away or aren’t Catholic but attending with family members qualifies for this broader definition of “around”. However, I say again, what Lux described goes beyond what is appropriate. If it were in my parish (as opposed to just visiting), I would make a point to have a conversation w/ the Pastor.

Well, we agree there . I know the pastor and I’m working on a gentle, positive way to express the idea that such gatherings could be used to announce, prior to Mass some reminders. This would not only help C & E Catholics, but those who go regular who may not reflect on it. I’m going to suggest the signs as well because it can be a noisy parish.

This being said, I want to touch on a few itmes in Lux’s post and my comments are in CAPS (but I’m not yelling ):

Well, I’ve left the caps, but simply changed the colors of your Orion’s text to blue. Too much work to go to normal text. In the future, simply use the color icon to the left of the smiley

From Lux_et_veritas: I think you nailed it here with the lack of reverence with much talking and noise inside of parishes. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON’T NECESSARILY IMPOSE OUR DEFINITION OF REVERENCE ON OTHERS. FOR YOUNG PEOPLE JOYFULLNESS IS PROFOUND REVERENCE WHILE FOR ANOTHER SILENCE IS REVERANCE.

I have been extremely joyful during Mass and I can tell you that being silently joyful out of respect for others and the Eucharist, is very doable for all ages. I’ve witnessed it in many children as young as 8. If large groups of teens can be silently respectful and, even silenty joyful during Mass in one parish where it is emphasized by the priests and community, then it is possible in other parishes, if the priests and community choose to do so.

After 40-something years of attending contemporary, noisy parishes (before, after, and during Mass), I have just encountered two parishes where silence rules. It was so different for me to experience that silence in a church it was stunning the first day I walked into Assumption Grotto. The silence at Ss. Cyril & Methodius in a Detroit suburb is also deadening. Both parishes have signs at the entrance asking people to be silent out of respect for the Blessed Sacrament and those praying. At 43, it is the first time I’ve seen this. Why? POSSIBLY BECUASE THEY HAVE PERPETUAL ADORATION GOING ON ALL THE TIME. OR POSSIBLY THEY AREN’T A PARISH W/ ALOT OF YOUNG FAMILIES OR A SCHOOL ATTACHED.

Hmm…not possibly because they just have not been taught properly? Ss. Cyril & Methodius does not have its own adoration chapel and it doesn’t matter. The Church itself is not a social hall. Let’s hear what Cardinal Arinze says on the subject, in this Wanderer article from 2003:

Arinze: Each individual in the congregation also has the obligation to manifest reverence: by coming early to Mass to pray and recollect, by singing, praying, standing at the appropriate times, and by maintaining silence at the appropriate times.

The article opens with this:

Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Nigerian-born prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, made it crystal clear that the Holy See is well aware of the growing lack of reverence exhibited by Catholics at Mass, the banality of too much modern Church music, the extent of liturgical abuses, and the ongoing scandal of reckless church “renovations.” But he also made it abundantly clear, in addressing participants at the annual Church Teaches Forum held July 18 and 19 here, that each of these problems will only be solved when every Catholic person understands, as he put it in the title of his talk, “the reverence due to the Holy Eucharist.”

In an address that was as blunt as it was inspirational, Cardinal Arinze lamented the fact that so many Catholics and too many priests simply no longer understand that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, who is “due honor, reverence, adoration, thanksgiving, and love.”

I’ll continue in the next post since it will be too long by copying all of the text to which I’m responding.

 

[netmilsmom]

Elzee:

I’ve posted this story before, but I think it’s worth repeating. We have an awesome priest assigned to a school in our area. Young, a great speaker, extremely orthodox - the kids LOVE him. He actually teaches Catholic doctrine with no apologies. He encourages frequent confession - imagine that - and the kids LOVE him!! We need more priests like him. At one Mass he pointed out that he would give the kids ‘one chance’ to get the sign of peace correct. ‘This is not about the latest news in YOUR life - it is about extending CHRIST’S peace to each other. If you can’t do this in an appropriate and reverent manner, we will omit this extension (he meant the congregational sign of peace) for the rest of the school year.’ That’s all that needed to be said. The kids have been great ever since.

Well, well, well! The priest taught what the parents didn’t!
God Bless him!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

If you closed your eyes in either parish, you would think you were all alone with God. That, my dear friends, is what we are suppose to encounter. It is in that sacred silence that we have a chance to connect far deeper with God than we can through any human contact or experience. I TOTALLY AGREE IN EUCHARISTIC ADORTION BUT MASS IS NOT ADORATION. IT IS A COMMUNAL WORSHIP THAT WILL INCLUDE CRYING BABIES, TODDLERS WITH SHORT ATTENTION SPANS, TEENS WHO LOVE EXPRESSING THIER PRAISE IN SONGS THEY IDENTIFY WITH.

The problem I have with this argument, Orion, is that it assumes that people are incapable of focusing on the Mass, aside from babies and toddlers. We are talking about adults. For some mysterious reason, the parish of which I grew up in is filled mostly with folks that have grey hair. Or, shall I say less than half filled. We are not talking about a teen Mass. And, even if we were I’ve seen a group of devout teenagers behave more adult like than many of the adults I witnessed firsthand at the Mass I originally opened this thread about. If a priest never explains or looks for silence at times when it is required, then why would the people be silent? What I am saying is that it needs to be taught.

Unfortunately, too many people think that it is an act of charity to stand by and do absolutely nothing. Or, that it is charitable for the priest to do or say nothing. What I am saying is that it is an act of charity to teach and to counsel the parishioners about appropriate behavior during the Mass. If you read the entire article I quote from above, you will see that I am not alone in my observation. There is plenty of documentation coming out of the Vatican suggesting they are seeing the same thing I am and they want it corrected. It is misplaced charity for priests to continue to ignore that level of irreverence.

BTW, the full length article can be found here.

The Mass is not a place to gather for social purposes. It is a place to worship God. It is the one hour per week that our full attention should be on him, not his creation, not the people next to us, not even our children (aside from true needs). AND THIS IS THE POINT THAT I DISAGREE WITH MOST. AGAIN THE MASS IS OUR COMMUNAL WORSHIP. IT ISN’T A PRIVATE DEVOTION OR EUCHARISTIC ADORATION. WHEN WE ARE AT MASS, **WE ARE CALLED TO FULLY ENCOUNTER CHRIST ** IN FOUR WAYS:

1. IN THE CELEBRANT PRIEST.
2. IN THE LIVING WORD DURING THE LITURGY OF THE WORD.
3. IN THOSE AROUND US AT THE MASS. THEY ARE TO BE INCLUDED IN OUR PRAYERS, PRAISE AND WORSHIP. WE ARE TO SEE CHRIST IN THOSE AROUND US AND MAKE OURSELVES AVAILABLE SUCH THAT OUR FELLOW WORSHIPPERS CAN SEE CHRIST IN US.
4. AND PRE-EMINENTLY (BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY AS LUX ASSERTS) IN THE EUCHARIST.

1. Yes, the priest stands in persona Christi
2. Yes, Christ is the Word and we encounter Him there.
3. Yes, whatsoever we do to the least of our brothers, we do unto Him. And, because I am being silent during a part of the Mass in which we are suppose to be silent doesn’t mean I am not praying for those around me. In fact, I find it easier to pray for those around me when people are not talking about the dinner roast and the pair of pants that need to be taken in. There is nothing that suggests when there is an unexpected delay, just following consecration, that we should entertain each other through side conversations (which is what the initial post is about).
4. Yes, in the Eucharist. And, I must say I am utterly shocked that you would derive I feel this is the only place Christ can be encountered. I may not make physical contact with people in Church, but I sure invest lots of time outside of the Mass making that contact. Much of the contact I’ve encountered during the Mass involves formality - someone extends a hand and someone else takes it. They don’t know me or I them, but we shake. At my parish, we spend hours each Sunday congregating in the hall over hot dogs, hamburgers and every month have doings that engage us all deeper than any other parish. I know many, many people personally and have grown close to them as a result, whereas I didn’t get to know anyone through 40 years of giving the sign of peace in those other parishes that had no such interactive opportunities. People wrongly assume that if one doesn’t miss the sign of peace, they are not being Christian in some way. This is dangerously judgmental. I see many Catholics who do not exchange a sign of peace spending several hours daily outside of abortion clinics doing sidewalk counseling, or working in food centers.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

And, finally, the last part of Orion’s post I wish to address:

And once again, I do not condemn the sign of peace and when a priest invites the congregation to extend it, I offer and accept to either side of me, in front, and in back. And, it is the TALKING I condemn, not the sign of peace, even though my preference today is to skip right past contuing the Eucharistic Prayer, which is addressed to God, not the people. I APOLOGIZE FOR MY SARCASM HERE. HOWEVER, FOR ONE TO DESIRE EXPELLING THIS DIMENSION OF CHRIST BEING PRESENT TO US (THE SIGN OF PEACE) IS ANALOGOUS TO SAYING “WHY DON’T WE JUST SKIP THE LITURGY OF THE WORD.” OUR FELLOW PARISHIONERS ARE VITAL COMPONENTS OF THE MASS.

It is validly acceptable for a pastor to not have the congregation extend the sign of peace. So it is not I you are being sarcastic with, but Holy Mother Church. Here is what my pastor, Fr. Eduard Perrone has written on the subject in one of his sermons, thus explaining why he does not invite us to share it.

What the congregation is asked to do–and this is a beautiful thing–is to wish each other the peace which is of Christ. This was not meant to become what is has nearly always come to be, namely, a sudden eruption of chaos into the otherwise orderly assembly of worshipers who ought to stand wholly riveted on the divine presence before them in the most Holy Eucharist. The sign of peace, as it is currently positioned and practiced, has been, according to my estimation, among the most significant factors to have eroded the sacredness, silence and indeed the practice of adoration that was once common in all Catholic churches. How ironic that at the very moment when the Lord is invoked to grant peace there results such disturbance and Eucharistic distraction among the people and that, as a further consequence, our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament is ignored, or worse, treated sacrilegiously. I am reluctantly led to recall the infamous kiss of Judas Iscariot.

The sign of peace, given among the people, is, by the clear indication given in the priest’s Missal, optional, not obligatory. We at this parish have always taken this option and have omitted it, not because we want to remain liturgically old-fashioned, not be cause we are anti-social, but because the loss in reverence far outweighs whatever other gain there might accrue from it. There has been discussion and debate among liturgists and among bishops concerning this sign: whether another sign should be adopted (bowing to each other, or a moment of silence, for example) and whether it might be more fittingly placed at the beginning of Mass, or (according to our Lord’s admonition) before the offertory, or even at the end of Mass. The abuse of this sign both in the manner of giving it and in the inordinate amount of time spent on it has generated much of controversy. One can yet hope that a more decorous and reverent manner will be found for it or that it will be omitted entirely. It seems to me a thing better in theory than in practice.

I’ll also reiterate here, that any Catholic who attends a parish where the sign of peace is not exchanged, cannot be judged as not seeing Christ in others. Physical contact during the Mass does not equate to seeing Christ in others. It’s what we do outside of the Mass that really counts.

Mass time is aimed at the worship of God, not the worship or adoration of others. This takes nothing away from people who reverently show a sign of peace to their neighbors during the Mass. Rather, it goes to those who are too busy disturbing the peace to fully grasp what the Mass is all about.